Thru-baggage tagging at check in
 

A question for check in agents:

I am flying BNE-SIN-AUH-DUB and then DUB-CFN. The two journeys have been booked separately but there is something like 2.5 or 3 hours between them. The airlines involved have an interlining agreement with each other but do not codeshare on any of the above routes at least.

I have been advised by a consultant from the airline that will check me in at BNE that through -checked bags to CFN will be possible as long as I present my boarding pass for the onward journey.

I am interested to know how this is achieved by the check in agent, partly because I'm genuinely interested and partly because it may be a left of field request for the agent I get on the day and I would like to maximise my chance of success, so to speak. It is understandably a great relief to not suffer the rigmarole of collecting and redropping bags after a 29 hour journey :) so knowing exactly "what" to say the agent if applicable would be a great help.

Many thanks in advance for anyone who takes the time to answer.

Can you check me in all the way to CFN?

This is one of the days where having print-outs of all your reservation details may help the process go more smoothly.

(As far as I remember that's (almost, I asked for AMS) how I checked in at CBR for a two booking trip (via SYD) to AMS and got checked through, with luggage)

It should be possible to check a bag in to pretty much anywhere that is served by commercial airlines. Getting boarding cards for the last leg from the initial airline may not be possible though, so visiting the airlines desk in DUB may be required, where you may need to hand them over a copy of the bag tags so they can add them in to their system.

For example on the DCS I currently use it's simple to add in an onward flight and print a bag tag for pretty much any airline a passenger may be travelling onwards with weather or not it's our one, a partner, a codeshare or even one which has nothing to do with us. The boarding cards will usually only come out if it's an airline in the same alliance as us or one with which we codeshare or interline with.

You should have no problem checking the bag in all the way, 2 tags will probably be printed off to enable all those airport codes in one journey, but that's fairly standard. Have all your flight numbers and bookings ready so that the agent can add them in to their system. They may also need to add eticket numbers, so have them on hand too.

Wish I had known that. I recently flew BKK-AUH-AMS-DUB. The AMS-DUB portion was separately booked. We got off at AMS went through immigration paid for EXCESS weight and 're boarded.Through baggage would have saved time and money( to say nothing of stress).

If the journey is on one ticket (and a ticket is not the same as a reservation) then the likelihood is that through checkin is possible. But you're on 2 separate tickets. Furthermore, the DUB-CFN will be on flyBE? flyBE don't have many interline agreements so the chances are you will NOT be able to through check in this case.

Flybe probably has an an interline agreement with the 1st airline. See Flybe | Corporate | Media | News archive. It is possible that 1st airline will not send luggage on with two tickets. You will find this out when you check in at BNE, but as others have recommended have all of your details readily available.

This used to be a no-brainier, if you could show tickets with an OK status they would check the bags through. More recently some (larger) airlines have been refusing claims when bags go missing as 'they don't have a single contract' meaning that some (smaller) airlines have had to absorb significant Warsaw/Montreal claims when things go pear-shaped.

As an example BE would be responsible to you to pay your claim if bags lost/damaged even if 1st airline mishandled at SIN. Normally BE would claim from 1st airline but if they refused they would be stuck for the entire amount. Because of this some airlines no longer accept through checking.

Wasn't it much better with binding IATA Resolutions, before the ACCC, the EC and the US DOT took those away? (Rhetorical question, no need to respond)

The check-in agent "should" be able to check your bags to the final destination, but that might not mean the bags get there. I once had a ticket routing MAN-AMS-CDG-JFK-YYZ flying with various SkyTeam airlines on the same ticket. It confused the check-in agent to see so many airports on the outbound leg, but she still managed to check my bags.

Unfortunately, even though I made it to YYZ no problem, my bags didn't initially get past AMS, arriving in YYZ 2 days after I did.

My advice, make sure you have some essential change of clothes in your hand luggage!

Awesome, this is just what I was looking to find out.

I'm assuming if we check in online for the final leg of the journey, it won't matter whether or not a boarding card is issued at the check-in desk since we'll have printed it out at home first anyway?

Otherwise, if it will be necessary to see the check-in agent in DUB, how will we know? If the bags are checked through to CFN and we have checked-in for that leg online already, can we not proceed directly to the boarding gate in DUB? Correct me if wrong!

Finally, other posters mentioned interline agreements between the airlines. From what I can garner from their websites there is an agreement in place, but there seems to be ambiguity when it comes to separate tickets as to what will be permitted. I guess I will have to wait and see. The most important thing for me is that I'm told for certain whether I need to collect bags in DUB, preferably before I arrive empty-handed in CFN :}

A boarding card for the DUB-CFN flight isn't necessary. If you've got it great, but you might be outside the time limit (no idea what BE does). Having your e-ticket printed out showing an OK status is just as good.

If '1st airline' accepts bags through to CFN that will be shown on your baggage receipt. The tag on the bag should have CFN on it, as well as all the other connecting points in sequential order. If it only says DUB that's where the bag will end up. If it says DUB and CFN then the bag will go through to CFN.

I'm not sure how the Irish do it. You may have to clear immigration and customs at your first point of entry. If so, and regardless of where the bag is tagged to, you will have to clear immigration, pick up your bag, clear customs and then either give the already tagged bag to CFN to the airline - or if it's only tagged to DUB you will have to check-in the bag with the local operator. (Is it really BE?)

If you have a boarding card for the CFN leg then you'll still need to go through security, immigration and probably customs in DUB anyway. If you have a boarding card then you should be able to go directly to the gate after all the relevant checks. If you don't then a 10 second visit to the transfer desk should be all you need to get that boarding card in DUB. Personally I would visit the desk of the CFN airline anyway to make sure they have my baggage details in their system and maybe find out if the bag has made it to at least DUB.

One last question: from the perspective of the check-in agent, does checking in online for all flights prior to arriving at the bag-drop desk have any bearing on whether through-checked bag tags can be issued?

Apologies but I am totally ignorant as to how your DCS software works!

Here, for what it is worth, is what I know, and have been telling people for ages.

A separate ticket, on a separate booking is a separate contract: Bags cannot be checked through between tickets/contracts, As you can imagine, this issue arises often on flights from AKL to LHR.

The reason for this is that the airline that accepted the bags initially, is taking responsibility for both you, and the bags, all the way through to CFN. Were your bags to be lost or late on the last sector they would be liable, and would also be liable for accommodation costs in a delay, since responsibility had been accepted for the entire journey.

You may get lucky if the check-in agent makes a mistake, but I would be surprised. Please let us know how you get on.

Indeed.

The most common reason for making separate bookings is because it appears cheaper. This is in part because if you make a through booking the airline has greater costs. There is the cost provision for the likelihood that you have to be reaccommodated or put up overnight at the transfer point because the connection was missed, and also the much greater chance of bags being mis-handled in the transfer, with the quite substantial additional costs of repatriating them to you after the journey finishes. The carriers know the percentages of any of this happening, and how much overall it all adds to their costs.

Regarding the original question, the customs will check you and your bags, which you will therefore have to have collected, at Dublin, where you are entering the European Union, regardless of your ticketing status. The onward trip is a domestic flight where pax just walk off at the end. In any event there are no customs staff at Carrickfinn.

TightSlot, you are right ... but. :O

Under IATA Baggage rules it is the delivering airline that have the responsibility of dealing with the customer in the event of a baggage irregularity. They initiate the baggage trace and deal with any damage issues. In the event it is up to them to claim from the ticket issuing airline (who has the money) who may well claim against a third airline who might be to blame.

For years airlines applied these rules to all checked through bags. However some bean counters at some airline realised that they could save a fortune if they just refused claims when a single contract (ticket) didn't exist. So, connecting carriers started to take hits, often when it was not their fault and they began to refuse connecting baggage from the airline that started this. A lot of tit-for-tat reactions means that today many airlines will not accept baggage through check with two tickets.

BA, for example, state explicitly on their web-site that they will only accept baggage with two tickets when the connecting airline is a oneworld carrier. So a NZ/BA through check is no longer possible with two tickets.

Woody, the operative words in your post are 'a few years ago'. Don't try it today.

I flew from ZRH to LHR with LX and then on a separate ticket from LHR to EDI with BA.

When I checked in in ZRH I asked them to tag my bag through to EDI and they were more than happy to do so. Didn't even question it. The agent simply said that she would check if they had an interline agreement with BA, they did (I knew they did), and that was that. 6 hours later my bag appears at EDI. All I had to do was give my tag numbers to BA at LHR.

Had that bag going missing then presumably, with no LX presence at EDI, I would have gone to BA. Would they have dismissed my claim and sent me back to LX? Would they have refused to rush the bag up to EDI even if the bag had made it as far as LHR?

Could BA have refused to carry my bag at LHR because I came from a non One World member and didn't re-check it with them or do inbound bags not bother them?

Thanks and appreciate your input. I have seen evidence that an interlining agreement that exists between the two carriers, of sorts. There are plenty of reasons why it may not work I am sure.

The customs issue is a big one, although an email from Dublin authorities suggested that bags can be checked through to either of the domestic airports serviced (Kerry or Donegal) and that is where they end up with no need to collect in between. Perhaps they are searched separately? Theoretically, shouldn't someone connecting to an EI Regional flight from DUB-KIR after arriving on EI from the USA not have to collect their bags before passing through customs? Should that not also apply to any through-checked bag? :confused: In any case, as long as I know whether to collect the bags first in Dublin before I arrive in Donegal I am satisfied.

The other possible issue is that while an interline agreement exists between BE and the other airline, the flight to Donegal is operated by Loganair with a BE flight number. I don't know the IATA rules well enough to know if this has additional implications for through-checking even an interline agreement is in place.

I am of course able to collect my bags in Dublin if I have to. If it's not possible I can accept that. I was just interested to know whether it is possible and if so how I could make it happen. I have an inkling that the airline in Brisbane use contracted check-in agents who might not know about every interlining agreement in place with their clients, so I had hoped there might be some magic buzzwords I could utter to come to an understanding :}

I will give it a go anyway when I travel in a few weeks and report back.

By the way, is there any advice as to the question of whether online check-in prior to arriving at the airport has any bearing on the ability for the check-in agent to through-check bags?

Checking in online shouldn't affect the ability to drop bags. You just need to make sure each individual airline has your bag tag numbers in the system for the flight you're taking with them. Having a boarding card already shouldn't affect their ability to add a bag tag number in to their system.

An Interline agreement covers journeys involving more than one airline on a single ticket. Travelling on two tickets is not an 'interline' journey.

So, you have a single ticket with the routing GVA BA LHR NZ AKL, BA at GVA will check the bag through to AKL. The contract you have is for transport of you and your checked baggage from Geneva to Auckland.

If you have two tickets GVA BA LHR; LHR NZ AKL this is not an interline journey. BA do not have to check the bag through. Their contract with you is to deliver you and your checked baggage to LHR. They could check it through to AKL, because all the systems are in place, but they chose not to.

If you have two tickets, check with the first airline before you arrive at the airport, so you will know what their policy is. Double check on your return because you likely will be checking your bag with a different airline. It could work one way but not the other.

Note - this is a commercial decision of the airline, not a technical one. It's almost always technically feasible, but if head office has decided they are not going to do it, they are not going to do it.

It's all well and good for passengers to claim that the airline can tag your baggage to your final destination. However, reality may be different -- the check-in agent may be new, ill informed, or just cranky.

I recently had just that problem on a three-leg trip MLA-DUS-YYZ-SEA all booked on one Skyteam ticket. Numerous phone calls, with impatient lineup behind me, as agent debated checking bags through YYZ. Couldn't do it, despite my protestations.

Wound up spending 2 full hours in the ridiculous mess that YYZ has become to pick-up and recheck my bags.

This through tagging by check in agents who don't have a clue is a huge pain in the backside to be honest.

The are multiple things that can happen to your bag if your bag is tagged but no agreements in place.

1. It gets chucked off the belt in an airport somewhere along the route into a pile in the baggage bays.

2. It could go out on the belt in any airport along the route.

3. It may be held awaiting charges being paid.

4. It may be picked up by the computer and routed automatically to the correct aircraft.

5. The boys just walk across the baggage bay and stick it on the right trolley and it makes the flight.

If there is no agreement in place there sometime is a charge somewhere between 20 and 90 euros for a transfer. And in some countries they won't release it until that's paid. Then there is a bun fight between handling organisations over who pays it. Then there is the charge for actually getting it to where you are.

Any country where you go through immigration for transfer again it may be against local regulations to through check bags without going through customs and there may not be a process in place for you to pick up clear customs and then drop.

The check in agent is doing you no favours what's so ever checking it through by butchering the system into producing a through tag.

Personally as a pilot I don't even ask about it if I am travelling. If they do it automatically then fair enough. But I would suggest you never try and hassle them into doing it. You are just asking for your bags to disappear for a period of time if you ever get them at all. As they are quite easy to make disappear when on the computer they have been put out onto the belt in some airport.

Not all airports have the same system and it may very well work with some trips. But that's more luck than the system being in place for it to work.

Thru checking baggage
 

There is one other small problem that can arise when thru checking baggage. I was travelling NPL-AKL-PEK on Air NZ then PEK-LHR with British Airways all on the one ticket. I checked in at New Plymouth with 2 items of baggage a total of 9 kgs only. They tagged the bags all the way through to LHR and gave me boarding passes as far as Peking. At Peking I had to just check with BA for a seat number and boarding pass. BA at Peking asked where my luggage was and I showed them the two baggage tags issued by Air NZ. I was then told that I had excess baggage charges to pay as they (BA) only allowed 1 item of checked baggage and I had two. Because Air NZ operate on a total weight system and as I was on a through ticket I explained this to BA and told them the Air NZ limit was 23kgs and I had only 9kgs. They still wanted me to pay excess for my two bags and after well over an hour of pleasant discussion (no raised voices from either side) they eventually went down to check my two bags were only 9 kgs, came back and said "this time we will let you off." The moral is twofold, if you have any change of airline when through checking baggage, check the other airlines baggage rules. Secondly, don't rant and rave at the Agent who is just doing what his rules say he has to do, but politely explain why you are in the position that mean you are breaking his airlines rules.

But don't expect that will change anything.

Baggage is a bloody nightmare to be honest when it goes wrong. And 99% of the time by the time its discovered.

a) its nothing to do with the agents at the point of arrival.

b) its nothing to do with the last airline that you travelled with.

c) There is a cost to get it all sorted out.

d) a lot of the time there isn't actually a lot that can be done.

My record is one woman who had done something similar from NZ destination a small regional airport with one operator. Biz class with 3 other airlines then ours for the last sector. Baggage didn't make it. Tears and pleading in arrivals. Showing of baggage receipts which of course the regional airport didn't have a link into the system. Last flight of the week 2 days before the next.

Sent away with a list of phone numbers to call. Quite irate that we wouldn't phone them for her. Monday no rush bags, even more upset because she was given the run around on the phone and departed back 10 days later still no bags. They turned up 3 weeks later and thankfully I spotted them and refused them and sent the handler her number when we got back. As I suspected they had been trapped at Helsinki, there was over $1200 of charges to get the bags back to NZ and outstanding charges. Which because I had refused them was the handlers problem not my airline, they tried to get us to accept them 3 times but I had briefed the other crews not to accept.

I don't know if she ever got them back.

You do feel for the PAX but after you have tried to help once and been stung for it both time wise and huge arguments for back charging the associated costs. Even if you want to help you are instructed to keep well away from it to the point of being rude and not get involved. Your contract is from A to B and if the person has through checked bags and they don't turn up at the aircraft its thier problem.

chuboy I think you have your answer! Take some hassle yourself along the way.

Indeed it is technically feasible to through-check your baggage almost anywhere on the planet, even if you don't have a ticket at all.

A friend of mine in Oz discovered this a few years ago when she took a domestic flight on Qantas from Brisbane to Canberra. Direct, non-stop flight, 100% domestic, so pretty low-risk on the lost baggage scale.

Her bag didn't arrive in Canberra. Neither was it left in Brisbane. It was eventually tracked down in - wait for it - Salt Lake City, Utah, USA.

Turns out the person ahead of her in the check-in queue at Brisbane had been travelling to Salt Lake City, via SYD and LAX. The agent had somehow printed an extra baggage tag for this person (or it had been jammed in the machine, and came out when the next tag was printed), so that the tag ended up on my friend's bag - which was then duly and efficiently sent off on a rather longer journey than my friend.

She got it back eventually. And I now always linger at the check-in counter to watch the agent attach the correct tag to my suitcase.

A habit I got into long ago, know the three letter airport* code of your destination and make sure that's the last code printed on the tag. A couple of times I've stopped it and said "I'm going via Toronto, not to it".

However travelling on a mixture of passes and ID tickets this was often a two, or more, ticket itinerary, and they didn't design the system for us.

*There are airport codes (LGA, JFK, EWR) and city codes (NYC). Sometimes they are the same thing, but often not.

May I suggest Tight Slot, that this might be a good thread to add to the FAQ? I know that newbies tend NOT to check it first but at least we can then tell them where to go. (if you know what I mean) :p

Many thanks for sharing your expertise everyone, much appreciated.

My question was purely from a technical standpoint, I realise there are commercial reasons why things won't be done but that's true of everything, isn't it! I will double check with the airline to make sure through-checking will be allowed on the day.

Also, can someone elaborate on checking with BE in Dublin about baggage numbers in the system? How does this work? I would have thought tag numbers were stored in a database independent of the carrier airline. Am I mistaken?

Very informative thread. I've been in aviation since '65 and have learned from your comments.

Nice thread guys, and following a sensible suggestion (Thanks) now added to FAQ thread.

No Central data base for bag tag numbers, although there are a couple (which talk to each other) for bag tracing.

When a bag is checked that airline will send a message to all down line airlines advising them that bags are on their way. When a bag is transferred to the connecting airline they will record it in their system, and should link it to your booking (positive bag match). Double-checking at the connecting airport ensures the airline won't hold the bag until positive confirmation that you have made the connection. It isn't something I would do with a single ticket, but would do with two tickets. As I said the system allows this to happen, but it wasn't designed to do it.

The airline won't know to be honest, the checkin agent certainly won't.

It all depends on the policy in Dublin in the baggage bays. Even if the system is butchered to give a through baggage if it gets trapped even if its listed against your ticket number it still won't make the aircraft. None of the crew will know if its on board or not, the only way of finding out would be to get hold of the bingo card from the baggage crew leader or physically watch it go on.

And if your bag doesn't turn up in Donegal don't be surprised if you get told to deal with Dublin.

And the other thing is your getting off an international flight from the middle east so your going to have to clear passport control and customs as its your first entry port into the EU. You won't be able to just internal transfer airside. Donegal isn't an international entry airport I don't think unless notified before hand and the BE flight will be classed as internal.

Also as well that flight is going onto Scotland so you will have to clear the Irish-UK security stuff.

Don't be surprised if trying to force your bag through doesn't set off a load of security protocols for both smuggling and terrorism.

Customs & Immigration

Seems to confirm what I think will happen.

So your on a none starter anyway.

If it was me I've have the bag tagged to Dublin, claim it, clear customs and proceed to the bag drop. 2 1/2 hours should be plenty for this.

I would be inclined to agree with you in general there ExXB. Although I have asked an airline rep twice now and they have confirmed both times that even with separate tickets, the bags will be tagged through.

I'll wait for an answer from Irish customs about collecting at the first point of entry before I commit of course. Not much point going through the hassle of through-checking if I need to pick up and drop of bags anyway.

Many thanks for your advice again everyone.

Found this at IATA.

"Baggage Clearance regulations::
Baggage is cleared at the first airport of arrival in Ireland (Rep.).

Exempt: baggage of passengers with an onward connection to Cork (ORK), Dublin (DUB), or Shannon (SHN); baggage of passengers who embarked in another EU Member State , baggage of transit passengers with a destination outside of Ireland (Rep.)."

It doesn't appear you meet the exemption as your destination is CFN.

IATA is the publisher of the TIM (Travel Information Manual) which is the bible for airline staff world wide. I would trust it.

Can you actually define what you mean by airline rep?

Are you talking about someone who actually works in airline operations or some sheila that's gets paid minimum wage to check bags in?

There are also another load of regulations to do with that flight because it goes onto Scotland. So there is different baggage search requirements and you also have to get the once over by the Garda.

Somewhere in between I suppose. A "contact centre agent" based in Manchester, who confirmed the answer to my question twice via email.

I don't know how intimately familiar they were with Irish customs regulations, of course.
I won't argue with this, as I understand the aircraft does continue on to GLA after arriving in CFN (but with a different flight number).

I have seen the same just now reading a manual published by Irish Revenue Office. So I guess that settles it, after all that :(

Well, at least I learned a thing or two.

Well, Bon voyage and let us know how it goes.

Great thread guys! Perfect example of the collective knowledge that makes PPRuNe so interesting to read :ok:

Would I be right in assuming that it is possible to get your boarding card issued if you make two independent bookings during the same journey? Hypothetically, if I have two separate tickets, e.g. DUB-AMS with Aer Lingus, then AMS-FRA with Lufthansa, could I get my Lufthansa boarding pass issued by Aer Lingus staff in Dublin (assuming I had no checked baggage)?

If online check-in is not available, this might take a lot of the stress out of making independent point-to-point bookings.