How bad can it get in cattle class (Virgin Atlantic)?
 

Have just completed a long haul return flight, economy, with Virgin Atlantic. My, have standards reached rock bottom!

Just four cabin crew in economy, three male. My wife had long finished her special diet meal and I was on my last bite of a very small portion of chicken and veg (no extras) when, hey, some wine arrived. Wife asked for wine and juice so that I could have a little more of the red plonk. On the flight out a request for some more tipple never came, and when I later complained, adding that if you are holding jugs of water and orange juice, why ask me if I would like some water? I was told to keep my voice down as other passengers were trying to sleep.

And, the Airbus has some shoddy finishing, but the design of the back of seat pocket by your shins on the A340-600 is something else.

Why did you find it relevant to tell us the sex of the cabin crew?

Why would you complain that you were asked if you would like water when the crew were holding water/juice jugs? Isn't that just polite?

A request for more drinks is likely to have just been forgotten. A gentle reminder or a stretch of the legs to the galley might have done the trick.

Special meals. At my old airline, and every airline I have ever flown on, special meals are always served first and quite often they are devoured before the main meals are. Unfortunately, logistically this is how it works. Special meals, in economy atleast, get dished out first.

The experience has declined in the last 10 years, and it definitely has at VS. However, times are hard and until we all start paying the going rate for air travel it ain't going to improve. All that said, I still don't get much of what you complain about.

Subtlety and nuance ain't your strong points I guess.

....or yours from the sound of it.

easyflyer83Aint that the truth.

Every company is steadily downgrading their product and service to save money. The current recession is going to last at least another five years and possibly ten. If you want more service, do pay for Premium Economy or higher. Whilst that service is now largely what you used to get in Economy (minus the larger seat) that is where the market is. I agree that the change in service is not nice but, like everyone else, I don't like to spend more money than I have to.

Consider the service you now get in every field of commerce. Consider if your bank gives you better service than ten years ago? They get you to do it all online. Your supermarket? You can check goods out yourself (but get no benefit from so doing) or you can pay to have them delivered (which is, actually, a bargain in terms of money/time + effort).

Think about your electricty/water/gas/telephone supplier and check if they now offer the same customer service as ten years ago?

The list goes on and, in my experience, the answer is always the same.

Thanks chaps; easyflyer for not reacting more strongly; PAXboy for reinforcing what I have been trying to bear in mind throughout.

Times are hard; but when a round trip of 24 hours or so in that tube leaves you lamenting the realization that in about 45 years of flying you have never felt less welcome and more of an object, a rethink is necessary.

There are airlines (Asian?) that I know have not sunk so low. But do I fancy going via Dubai?

dfdasein I am not unsympathetic! The problem IS bad but IS unavoidable. :(

I agree that other carriers in the middle and far east are still on their way up and so can offer better customer service. The legacy carriers of Western Europe and the USA are just that - legacy carriers.

Also, with VS, one of the often stated points in this forum is that the cabin service is variable - depending on which departing airport you use. LGW/LHR/MAN.

I know it is the wrong approach, but I expect the worst and anything better is a bonus. I take my own reading matter/dvd player, my own food and drink [Pret], plus blow-up cushion and eye-shades. Unfortunately I cannot do anything about the actual seat or surrounding pax.
If the IFE is working, the food is edible, and the wine is poured on a frequent basis by male or female cc [I'm not fussy] I'm a happy bunny.
I think back 30 years when a flight to Spain cost more than my next flight to Florida and just think that things could be a lot worse.
Or should I demand a lot more for my £350, much of which goes to the government ?

Here's another fine example of NOT customer service.

• Go to their web site
• Sign up a subscription of their magazine for children
• Get a receipt number
• Two months later, first mag not arrived.
• Check the credit card - money had not been taken
• Go to their web site and give all the details, including their own receipt number
• Get a quick automated reply saying that they will respond within two or three working days
• A week has gone by and more than three months since first booking
• You can ONLY email or write to them - there are no phone numbers
• I won't invite suggestions - because there are thousands of companies that are equally $hit
• But the National Geographic have just lost the chance to capture an inquiring young mind

:*

I don't think Economy has ever been any different.

You want more - pay for it.

You may get very good / extra service sometimes - on occasion when the flight has been not so full or quiet I've been able to demolish quite large volumes of wine.

But mostly - it's economy and it's called that for a reason.

LoadToad economy has always been the bottom of the pile but it has been better. I can remember BOAC with 34 inch pitch for a start. Food is an interesting one. I think technology has probably meant that food arrives looking and tasting a bit more like food than it used to but the quantity has certainly gone down. Service is also somewhat difficult to quantify but the simple fact that crew numbers have been reduced at the same time as the number of passengers (both in abolute and load factor terms) have increased suggests a reduction in service.

I'm not suggesting that economy was ever the greatest thing since sliced bread but it isn't the same as it was.

..and there are still carriers with it today

Maybe the lack of wine was due to them running out . We have Virgin Atlantic Captain who lives quite close who told me that on the Man - Florida flights that they have often run out of booze in economy by 40 west !.

Look at the cost of flying as a proportion of average income, compare it with 10/20/30/40 years ago and then look surprised when airlines provide the equivalent of "Never mind the quality, feel the width"

Well, we flew economy SIN - CDG - SIN last month on SQ and I have to say that the service was excellent. The seat wasn't great but I had no illusions about what I was going to get.

The IFE was fine, and my meal on the way back, a lump of beef in a red wine sauce was truely superb. The wine was only a VDP but still pretty decent and I had more than enough for the second half of the flight to be just a blur.

OR just possibly it's the people and not the company.
Every society is made up of people, so when service slumps across the board we blame the company? True, it's the people that work therein that are the issue. I have been on some good trips with very basic service in seats that were less than comfortable. Why? It's a mindset thing.

When BOAC flew with 34'' pitch what
1) was the cost in economy London Airport - Idlelwild
2) the equivalent today in £ real terms on LHR-JFK in World Traveler?

Skipiness
Flew BCAL to US in 1976 at a cost of £450 in the back. Only know because I had student job to earn fair so hence remembered the ammount. Do not know what current fairs would be to Atlanta but would guess that it would be same or indeed slightly less. As for what you get I remember ok meals, and 1 film, plus some booze, and happy crew, and I think 34in pitch but do not quote me. Totaly agree with your post re supermarket and utilaties pay more get less + do it yourself.:*

Hands up, who remembers the days of PEX, APEX, Super Apex, and dodgy shops in Earls Court to bypass (illegally) the rules

Flew to Barcelona Economy for a weekend back in early 90s and cheapest ticket was over £300. Took the 24 hour bus from London to Nice as the air-fare was unaffordable. Biz class on my regular run back in mid 90s was over £3K to Toronto.

Not surprising if standards have dropped so much when real prices tickets wise must have dropped 50% or more.

It's also surprising that fares have not skyrocketed compared to their price a generation ago, when you consider how much more the oil producers, government taxation (from a virtually zero base), and the self-feeding hordes of employees who masquerade as security, manage to have worked out of the cash in the system in more recent times. Whatever is left for the airline, the employees, and the manufacturers ?

I strongly suspect that Airbus have nothing to do with the seat design. Normally a customer specified item, from their seat manufacturer of choice. B/E Aerospace, Britax, Recaro, Sicma, Contour etc.