Easyjet to trial allocated seating
 

Hi, I have just been looking on the Easyjet site. Apparently they are going to trial allocated seating on certain routes from Spring 2012.
This can only be applauded :D as I have always dreaded the scrum that happens pre flight.
All that remains to be seen is how much they can fleece their passengers for with something that always should have been included within the cost of the original ticket!:hmm:

I had thought it was only Pikeyair that didn't allocate seats until I travelled on Easyjet for the first time earlier this year. Until they allocate seats it was also the last time.

Yes but there's always that con, I mean extra, called "Priority Boarding" which Pikeyair use - total joke when buses are used for boarding - first on, last off!

I have usually found the best approach when boarding EZY (I would sooner walk on my hands than use Pikeyair) is to wait until the front boarding scrum subsides and walk round to the back (usually possible when boarding from the tarmac). While the sheeple at the front are still fighting over places, I'm usually comfortably seated at the back in a window seat and three seats to myself!

When boarding from the jetway, I can still usually get through to the back. I don't quite understand why people fight to be in the front when there's loads of seating at the back.

That said, I'll gladly pay for allocated seating, it takes EZY up a notch or two from an already good level.

Allocated Seating
 

That's all good if you are a single traveler Capetonian.:ok: I fully agree that Easyjet do have a somewhat poor reputation. I have traveled with them several times and always been relatively happy with the service and feel that the reputation is somewhat undeserved.
The problem I have which has always tarnished the experience is that my partner and I have two Autistic children. Outwardly they don't have any signs of their autism, but inside they are having absolute fits regarding the crowds and entering an aircraft which to them is a strange environment. Easyjet have never been interested in helping us out. We don't get priority boarding because the kids are 7 and 13. We could pay for speedy boarding but as has previously been pointed out, it's a bit of a con. We also need to sit together. Generally on a 319/320 my partner and youngest sit in front whilst my oldest and I sit behind. There is no way that we would allow ourselves to be in a situation of maybe having to sit a few rows away from each other as if the worst happened I would not want to be fighting a screaming cabin going against the flow of people to help my other family members. So, I hope that they do allocate seating as I for one would take advantage of it even if it does 'irk':{ to pay extra. I just hope they trial it in July/August next year on their STN/DLM route!:)

You could try the easyjet thread on airlines routes & airports...already discussed.

On the whole I welcome this move as I personally find allocated seating better. Although, having said that, as a regular EZY traveller on various routes of theirs I have never had a problem getting the seat I want. On the vast majority of flights my family use they have never had issues sitting next to one another either. I honestly can't see how this will stop the scrum as people have become accustomed to it on EZY and other LCCs and will still continue to ignore gate calls and try and barge to the front. Even when joe public is told to use the back steps they will still crowd around the front steps.

Jet2, Flybe, bmibaby and various holiday charter airlines all have allocated seats but you still see people crowding round the boarding gate and faffing about inside the plane, often ignoring their seat allocation and just sitting wherever they want anyway, only to be moved on when the rightful occupant turns up. Even when you hear the staff calling by rows they still stand around and try and come forward, holding everyone else up. I'm not saying this doesn't happen on full service carriers, but it is definitely something which comes hand in hand with the LCCs.

This bit sounds like they will pre-allocate you a seat at the time of booking and then if you want to select another one then you have to pay. Fair enough, but the sceptic in me thinks that there will be a lot of people issued with middle seats on an empty flight in the hope that they will not like that and pay to move one to the left or right. :E

Grumbles69

Your case does allow for some priority in boarding. Currently, that would be after Speedy Boarding. In the Special Assistance Group. The code to quote in your case would be two DPNA passengers travelling with you. Check-in should put this SSR comment in the system so that the gate staff and Dispatcher will know about you and that information will be passed onto the Cabin Crew.

However, You do need to arrive at the gate in good time. Before boarding has commenced!

Grumbles 69 thats correct. As you say, they often have no outward signs of their autism so it's perhaps a little unfair to blame the airline if you haven't told them.

I think the allocated seating idea is great and certainly will improve the product that is generally well liked by those who know. I'm all for it and hope that the trial will work. And it has to work for it to be rolled out fully.

However, some myths need to be put to bed. Firstly, comparatively very few flights have seating issues and the crew are generally fantastic at sorting this (I speak as a No.1 who rarely gets involved due to having to stay at doors 1) and the flight has to be almost jam packed 150+ (319) and 175+ (320). Even an overbooked flight usually leaves with a few spare seats. In fact, it's my belief that seat satisfaction is generally higher than allocated seating.

...But, the run up to the flight can be stressful. I think the "scrum" for most flights is a bit exaggerated. The main issue for me is the queuing for boarding, often before the inbound has arrived and for the bucket and spade routes there is generally the 'unknown' element that effects who perhaps don't fly very often.

Speedy Boarding. I've never been a huge fan of the product but 9/10 times it works. The 1/10 is generally the odd station that can't master the art of bussing the SB's. However, nearly all airports place SB's in a chained off area of the bus or at the front and are let off first using the appropriate door. Failing that they get their own bus. Some of the less resourced airports we fly to, such as PFO, manage to do that without issue. So bussing can and does work for speedy boarding.

As far as I understand the new allocated system will be only a few seats - probably the "grey" ones or the emergency exit rows.

grumbles69Really? Why 'should' it have been included? From their first day of operations, they did not include it, along with many other things like worthless FFM programmes. EZY set their own parameters - just like any other commercial company in any other line of business. If you don't like their offer, then do not buy it!

Paxboy, Agreed! There still seems to be many passengers expecting the old, traditional full service standards, without paying for it on a low cost carrier! :hmm:

Out of Trim,
Thank You for your advice. I will certainly try this next July.:ok:

Easyflyer,
We did tell them last time we flew. We even took documentary evidence but we were told that as they could walk we were not entitled to help. :ugh:
The main problem is crowds really upset them. It wasn't so bad out of STN, but coming back through DLM it was chaos. Even the speedy borders couldn't get through the gate because everyone was surging forward! Thank You for your reply.

PAXBOY,
Blimey, I didn't want a fight!:=
I can't see why there should be a charge for a seat number. Surely it can't cost any extra to Easyjet? When I book I pay for a seat. Why can't that seat be numbered? It's not rocket science.

Out of Trim,
I thought it was a full service. After all, I purchase a drink and a Croque Monsieur mid flight!;)

My aunt regularly travels with EZY, mainly on the STAN/LTN-GLA/EDI route and is always with my autistic cousin they have never had any problems with gate staff letting them on with other pre-boarders. My cousin can walk, but like your situation, he can get irritable and stressed around lots of people. Perhaps a word at check in or even the ticket desk might make the gate staff see the situation differently.

In effect they are giving us a seat number for nothing, but in order for us to change it...well that's where they are going to rake in the extra money. In addition to my middle seat theory from a previous post, I wonder if the booking system will track peoples seat selection habbits and deliberately NOT give them that seat, or kind of seat (window for example) in order to get an extra bit of cash out of them...I'd like to think that won't happen, perhaps more of an FR thing....but I'd not be surprised.

Grumbles69, you're welcome!

Just for your information; If you can't get the DPNA information added at check-in for some reason, If you arrive early to the Gate. The Gate staff can still add this information at this late stage! Just come forward and explain the situation before boarding has commenced. Standard boarding at LGW is around -25 mins to departure. However, if the Crew and Dispatcher are ready before this, then it could well start earlier! So, I would try and reach the gate by at least -45 mins to departure if I were you!

As regards the allocated seating issue; easyJet's reservation system has never been set up for this. So, they will have to spend a considerable amount to create this capability. It would not only be a case of issuing seat numbers but, has weight and balance implications too. As this seating distribution would be used for the Final Loadsheet for Take-off trim settings. The system needs to be able to allocate seats in a sensible and balanced way! I look forward to seeing how the trials go!

Out of Trim
 

Thank You for your detailed reply.
Without wanting to play devils advocate, Surely the current system of 'Free for All' at the gate doesn't allow for balancing issue's? People do after all sit where they like!:confused:
Please excuse this question if it seems obvious. Maybe I have just mis-understood.:O

Please could you explain the abbreviation 'DPNA'?

That is wrong of them I can assure you. There is even a special assist code for this type of passenger. It isn't specific to the autistic but it certainly is included within that group.

I'm not sure whether a seat number will be issued immediately at booking. It maybe the case that seats are pre-allocated but the passengers find out at check in. This is the same vein as some charter operators such as TOM. Easyjet say they will endeavour to seat as many passengers who don't pre-select, together so I guess there will not be any intentional middle seat agenda. That said, there is a a roughly equal preference to aisle and window seats so if you are travelling alone then there maybe an increased chance of ending up there. This won't matter to a lot of people though, especially on the shorter flights.

Absolutely. As an employee I have one or two ideas of how they can improve things and what needs improving. However, they have managed to stick to their low cost values without being Ryanair. Primary airports and a huge diverse network. But you pay for what you get..... quite literally. You get your flight..... you pay for luggage if you want it, choose a seat/speedy boarding if you want to but you pay for it. Once onboard you can buy a newspaper, something to eat or drink and on some flights you pay for inflight entertainment. This works for Easyjet and the latest financial figures prove it.

Having it all included is nice, especially if you actually use it but ultimately price is king as we all know. Easyjet has pretty high customer satisfaction scores but there are still many who have never flown with us and who are pleasantly surprised. Many of those passengers openly admit to have been dreading the flight. The fact that people book a flight and expect a poor experience demonstrates the monetary value people place on flying and their thirst for cheap flights in general.

grumbles69

Current Weight & Balance based on Free-seating relies on an even spread of passengers throughout the cabin. The cabin crew may well move passengers to achieve this. This is fine on on full-ish or full flights etc. If the flight has a low load however, the cabin crew will count the exact number of passengers seated in certain cabin rows. The cabin is split into 3 bays A/B/C.

This seating distribution is then fed into the weight & balance notebook computer on the flight deck along with the number of Males/Females/Children/Infants and with details on hold baggage weights loaded into set holds of the aircraft.

The trim settings and Take-Off V speeds obtained are then entered into the aircrafts flight management computer.

If Allocated seating systems do not manage the aircraft passenger distribution in a sensible and balanced way; then the aircraft may be in a state in which it would be outside of the prescribed flight envelope on take-off!
ie. like my name, it would be considered Out of Trim! To get the aircraft back in trim, either passengers or baggage or indeed both may have to be moved with the inevitable delays this would cause!

Re DPNA is an IATA code.

SPECIAL SERVICE REQUEST (SSR) CODES
The following are the IATA codes applying to disabled persons and persons with reduced mobility requiring assistance:
MEDA Passenger whose mobility is impaired due to clinical cases with medical pathology in progress, being authorised to travel by medical authorities. Such passenger usually has social coverage in relation to the illness or accident.
STCR Passenger who can only be transported on a stretcher. Such passenger may or may not have social protection or specific insurance.
WCHR Passenger who can walk up and down stairs and move about in an aircraft cabin, who requires a wheelchair or other means for movements between the aircraft and the terminal, in the terminal and between arrival and departure points on the city side of the terminal.
WCHS Passenger who cannot walk up or down stairs, but who can move about in an aircraft cabin and requires a wheelchair to move between the aircraft and the terminal, in the terminal and between arrival and departure points on the city side of the terminal.
WCHC Passenger who is completely immobile who can move about only with the help of a wheelchair or any other means and who requires assistance at all times from arrival at the airport to seating in the aircraft or, if necessary, in a special seat fitted to his/her specific needs, the process being inverted at arrival.
BLND Blind.
DEAF Passenger who is deaf or a passenger who is deaf without speech.
DEAF/BLND Passenger who is both deaf and blind, who can only move around with the help of an accompanying
person.
DPNA Disabled passenger with intellectual or developmental disability needing assistance. :ok:

Not intending to be combative, grumbles69, it's just that EZY started their operation by not doing this. They have stated that it saves money and so, if they now change to make it an option - they can ask for money. Seats can be allocated manually at check-in by using stickers on a card, or in advance using software. Developing software to integrate with the existing booking system will cost money. :)

In reality, how much extra does it cost an airline to have allocated seats ? Extra ink on a boarding card ? I've always been curious as to what advantage there is for an airline to have a free for all seating strategy compared with boarding by seat row, aside from revenue for speedy boarding ?

SpringHeeledJack,

I don't remember where I read it, but the advantage of not allocating seats is a faster boarding. People tend to line up at the departure gate much earlier and take the first free seat they like hence the whole boarding procedure is much faster. In an assign seat system people know they have the seat they like so they take their time to reach the gate, go missing...

In the proposed system, I don't understand how is it going to work if a passenger who has not paid for a specific seat takes his/her chance with the current rush to get a seat only to find it has been assigned by the check in to another passenger.

Out of Trim
 

Thank You for explaining.
Your patience is appreciated.:)

Those who don't pre-select will be allocated a seat by the airline. The plan is to seat as many people together as possible in relation to their booking reference. It is probable that the seats are allocated before check in opens.

A Couple of Points
 

Having used the LCCs extensively over the last 5 years I have a couple of points to make:

1/ One of the reasons that LCCs are low cost is because of high utilisation of the aircraft. Therefore high punctuality/regularity is essential. No allocated seating makes sure that all pax are all at the gate and ready to get on to the a/c as soon as possible. I have often found that the a/c is full/ready to go a good ten minutes before departure time. So EZY must be looking to trial whether the added income from allocated seating is more than the cost of delays?

2/ One of the main benefits for me and my wife when boarding a LCC without allocated boarding is that we can see where the screaming babies and stag/hen pax are seated and can usually avoid them if you time your boarding well. Works out most times but the trick is to time your boarding.

The actual boarding is very marginally quicker with unallocated seating but like you say it is the fact that many passengers like to be at the gate in good time is what actually speeds the process up. That said there are still certain types of routes where passengers are late to the gate on a regular basis and consequently get offloaded. Many of Easyjet's routes don't carry that much hold baggage and so offload is not a problem whatsoever in many cases. IMO the gate should close 5 minutes earlier in order to accomodate allocated seating.

However, Easyjet will not accept any real damage to it's OTP which is why this is strictly a trial

I'm of the opinion that allocated seating is the way forward and with a pro-active crew onboard, seating passengers shouldn't be an issue.

IMHO Speedy Boarding should be discontinued, and replaced by pre-allocated xtra leg-room seats for those who are prepared to pay for them. These seats will be specifically reserved for those paying pax, so there will be no need for different queues at the gates, special buses etc. Only those with the necessary proof of purchase will be allowed to sit in them. The rest of us plebs will take our chance and try and keep the middle seat free!

I have no problem with their current system and never bother with speedy boarding. Looks like they are changing stance on hand luggage though: last flight they were telling us that small bags and coats should be on the floor, to leave room for the bigger bags in the overheads. I guess fast turnaround means they wish to discourage hold luggage but I have no wish for the overheads to be rationed with preference to the over-packers !

It's always been the case regarding hand baggage but in recent months there has been a concerted effort to stick to policy. Therefore especially on busy flights you will be asked to place small items and large jackets under the seat and even if you have placed such items in the lockers already there is a good chance you will be asked to place them under your seat still. Once boarding is complete place them in the locker if you so wish provided there is space.

Isn't there a safety angle to this ? Anyhow, I don't like to stand on my coat/bag or whatever. Odd that I have never heard this before, on any airline, not even EZY. You sure ? Instead of speedy boarding, why not segregate into order of size of luggage and let the overpackers on first :* Size does matter.

No there's no safety angle to it. As with all carriers the bag must be fit under the seat and not cause obstruction and the only exception of course is at the exits.

With the odd exception who gets past the gate staff, people don't over pack if they are within the dimensions set out by the airline. As crew we ask for consideration by allowing pax with roller bags and large holdalls to place them in the locker ( oh and please place them side ways ). I'm usually at the front being a CM but occasionally like to stand in the cabin for boarding and I don't mind admitting that on busy flights I apply the policy strictly. I take out small items and politely ask pax to place under the seat... At least until boarding s complete then they can place the items in the overhead provided there is space.

But yes to answer your question it is policy and several months ago boarding PA's were adapted to include it. In any case many of the smaller items don't impede on legroom. I.e carrier bags, hand bags and even rucksacks.

If you've overpacked; it's a £40 charge at the gate and your bags going in the hold!

Stick to the rules or check it in! :rolleyes:

Thanks, not a big issue. Perhaps in my mind, having bought a ticket, I have also bought some alloacation of overhead storage. kind of a fairness thing.

So I pay £1,800 for five of us to go Faro and back. Low cost? To who? "Speedy Boarding" would have added an additional £135 to our holiday. Stuff that. I sent my seven year old on first with all of the boarding passes, followed by her slightly elder brothers (one at a time) and let the cabin crew sort out the mess. I really don't care if this causes a delay. No problem for me. They can sit next to whomever they want. But if EasyJet would like to make my experience of expensive air travel more agreeable, they can allocate seats to my family for free, like real airlines.

Mr OptimisticAh, yes ... it just depends what allocation is left for you. Perhaps 12 cubic inches? Whilst manufacturers have expanded and toughened the lockers, there is rarely enough space for what pax want to bring on these days.

Piltdown Man if I may (very politely) suggest, EZY have the same license of carriage as any other scheduled carrier, which makes them 'real'. If you don't like their prices, then don't book on them.

Whilst not knowing where you are travelling from, London to Faro is about 1,500 as the crow flies when it's sober. That's 3,000 miles each and 15,000 seat miles for five. So £1,800 is about 8.3 pence per mile? Not bad.

After growing up in a family of five, I saw what my parents had to organise and pay for and am not unsympathetic. Also, as always, I sit to be corrected on the maths.

Piltdown man, you don't care if you delay the other 150 people with your slightly childish and petulant antics? How honourable of you. I might even suggest that attitudes like that are a sign of what’s wrong with our society nowadays.

Well as already politely suggested if it bothers maybe you should pay more and fly with a "real" airline. Let me know when you find one more "real" than EZY. Maybe just fly with your own airline?

As a fellow crew member I just hoped you would have had more empathy and respect for your fellow professionals. Maybe you work for a "real" airline and you don't deem us worthy of that respect?

Have a good day.

Sorry mate but you come across as a complete :mad:. Crew will always get a young child sat with their parent full stop but we wouldn't get the whole family sat together. Most crew would bend over backwards to accomodate passengers such as yourself but it wouldn't be our mess to sort out if you didn't arrive at the gate in good time knowing that you were travelling as a family. And you would have been cutting it fine because any family on a very busy flight boarding last (which you would have to have done if you encountered seating problems) has left it pretty late.You would have got your children sat with one of you but with that attitude, it would have been purely for the childrens sake.

Precisely. In the past I have had passengers who complain about fares on some of out longest routes. I hear them out even though I don't set them and didn't force them to book. I then ask how much they paid and sometimes I can't help but smile. Nobody is denying that £1500 (and even smaller amounts) is a lot of money to many but I have also given the per mile breakdown once or twice and it doesn't half put it into perspective. Lets not forget that a sizable chunk of that is taxes which the airline never see's. Plus a average rail fare in the UK is around 20p per mile.

Your fare includes luggage space appropriate to the luggage that you board the aircraft with. If it pretty small, it is little hardship in placing it under your seat and chances are you can place it in the locker once boarding is complete and provided there is space. Small items generally are easily able to wedge in. Plus, small bags are best placed in the overhead locker last anyway otherwise they either get rammed to the back get stuck underneath a trolley bag.

[quoteAh, yes ... it just depends what allocation is left for you. Perhaps 12 cubic inches? Whilst manufacturers have expanded and toughened the lockers, there is rarely enough space for what pax want to bring on these days.][/quote]

That is the case on a relative few (mainly some of the intra-continentals)routes. However, on the vast majority of flights there is space provided passengers follow a few simple steps.
1) small items such as handbags and small rucksacks-under the seat.
2) Jackets and coats. Place these under seat or, once boarding complete, in the overhead lockers ontop of the bags where it won't get dirty from trolley bag wheels
3) For heavens sake, show courtesy to your fellow passengers and don't sling your trolley bag in length ways.

Nearly all, if not all bags on a busy flight can be accommodated by following these simple steps. It's like a jigsaw puzzle but it's amazing how much you can fit in those lockers.

Easyflyer

I think you are being a little hard on PM. PM is expressing his concerns over what could happen on a flight, not what has happened on a flight.

While I'm sure that on one of your flights this will not happen, but having travelled plenty on Squeezy (and CHeezy) I don't think you can give a guaranteed assurance that this wouldn't happen. Most flights have pleasant, hard working crews, but not all. If you are late all courtesy seems to disappear as you struggle to get the aircraft out. While Sq/Cheezy has improved dramatically over last year, many of us remember how really bad it was.

While I thank you for your input, please remember that this is a passenger's forum (of which I thank PPrune very much for providing) and your condescending comments are perhaps better made on the CC forum. We are the customers, please remember.

They weren't condescending they are in response to a very arsy post by said contributor.

Like all airlines, Easyjet has a mixture of crew and there are certainly bad apples amongst us. However, there would never be an instance where crew would not assist in sitting children with atleast one parent. In fact, it is Easyjet policy to make sure this happens as otherwise it can have negative impact on evacuation. So I can pretty much guarantee that any children of primary school age at least will not be sat alone.

Easyjet places a huge emphasis on OTP, they always have spoilt only last year by the huge cock up, particularly in LGW and SXF. OTP is now exceptionally high (generally mid 80% for departures within 15 mins, higher for arrivals). This August was Easy's best OTP in August in it's 15 year history.

Not on here you're not. We're all equals mate.

I'm not sure I understand this post at all. Firstly if you paid £1500 for 5 people to Faro then that's a good deal if you ask me, that's only £300 return each...not that expensive considering it's a popular holiday destination.

You also make reference to obscure things which wouldn't happen on any airline, let alone EZY.

Gate Staff wouldn't let a 7 year old through on her own, so why sending her first with all the boarding cards is a good idea is beyond me. You would be better off just getting to the gate early. If you're so annoyed at having spent £1500 on flights then surely you won't want to waste more money at the airport shopping mall?

Also, and this is the main issue I have with your post, IF you bothered to read the details on the EZY website then it also says that bookings made with several people will be allocated seats next to one another automatically, provided this is possible...which is what every airline which offers allocated seating does. I know it doesn't always work in practice but you can be certain that when that plane takes off your children will be seated next to you or an adult in your party. Gate staff sort all of this out before the boarding commences when they see a problem...or if a problem is brought to their attention.

If you say nothing out of spite and just leave it to the cabin crew then that is just bad form as they are already busy trying to get your £1500 flight out on time so you can enjoy your holiday.

As for "proper airlines" whatever that is, then why do BA want £70 extra off of me to pick my seats for a set of flights next May?
Why do United Airlines want an extra £80-£100, per sector for an exit row seat?
Why does KLM not even let you choose a seat on a short haul flight?
Why does Aer Lingus charge for refreshments and baggage?

Getting back on topic... :)
 

Off the top of my head, the only loco airlines in Europe who do not currently offer allocated seating are Easyjet, Ryanair and Wizzair. There may be more (BMIbaby?) but I've never flown with them. In some respects it's relatively rare not to offer it. It's just that the large volume of passengers they collectively carry make 'the scrum' seem more normal than it actually is.

Air Asia made the move to allocated seating on their short haul operations a few years ago. It didn't make that much of a difference to the length of time boarding takes, but it did make the process much less stressful. Personally I feel that this makes good business sense. Less stress equals more happiness, which equals more repeat custom, which equals fatter bottom lines. It could also be argued that happy passengers are more likely to part with cash once the aircraft is airbourne. Allocated seating is also a unique selling point which would distinguish Easyjet from several of its competitors.

Moving to allocated seating allowed Air Asia to start exploiting other ancilliary revenue streams. Apart form the obvious (charging pax to select seats), Air Asia started offering extras such as hot meals, tax free shopping and inflight entertainment during the booking process. Such a move would be difficult without allocated seating as cabin crew would not know who had ordered what and where they were sat.

Hypothetically, if Easyjet were to go down this path I feel that it would compliment their business model perfectly. They mainly fly between principal airports and have been increasingly innovative in their approach to competing with the old legacy carriers for business customers. Following their acquisition of GB Airways they have also penetrated the old 'bucket and spade' market. Loco airlines became as successful as they are by unbundling all unnecessary costs in order to make the basic ticket price as cheap as possible. The next logical step would surely be to allow passengers to pay to rebundle some of these extras if they so wish...

Imagine how full circle the market would have come if the only short haul airline in Europe which offered a full three course meal with champagne and hot towels was Easyjet! Granted, you'd have paid for it, but isn't that what loco airlines are all about? Even I'd shell out a small fortune every now and again if it meant experiencing air travel the way some of you old timers here on PPRUNE keep telling me it used to be!! :} :ok: