mrpony ... indeed. Good points, which hopefully might just be raised in discussions with Unite about a constructive way ahead [and out of this mess] for all involved.

Is that likely? I have no idea, but it might help Unite to take them on board and try to do something for their benefit. Otherwise Unite will continue to be wagged by the BASSA tail.

Reasonable
 

Afternoon all,

This is linked to the thread but I want to use it for study too. One of the items linked to the dispute is the suspension and dismissal of employees. Now if all goes well through the talks, then it appears that there maybe some form of alternative dispute resolution, which will look into individual cases for fairness.

I am interested in what the reasonable person would do in some hypothetical situations and have made up a simple survey to ask some questions.

It would be great if you could have a go. If you think it is rubbish or inappropriate, then please let me know.

Regards,

Bulbs.

Range of Reasonable Responses Test for Employee Misconduct Survey

Survey
 

Ops_Room_Junkie
 

Thanks for the feedback and I will try to amend. What I was attempting to do was to ask questions that align to the Acas CoP for disciplinary items. All I can say is that it in no means a way to lead anyone into anything. However as a rep, I am going to say things in a way (even subconsciously) that will not be neutral and I need to adjust them for it to be worthwhile.

I will have another go at the questions as I am interested to see what the man on the Clapham Omnibus would think.

Again, thanks for your comments.

Good Luck with the Survey
 

Bulbs.

Good luck - a hard thing to do, I wish you all the best with it.
I am glad you took the feedback as it was intended, it was not meant to be critical of the hardwork you had done.

The thing is with such matters, no two cases will ever be the same. Despite the fact the the 'facts' that are provable and submittable from both sides may be identical, there are usually many other 'factors' which are present and relevant that really paint the picture in terms of motivation, intent and history.

ORJ

ORJ
 

I have adapted some of the questions and locked it (hopefully) so you cannot answer more than once. It now gives the results too.

If I can ask you to have another look to see if you feel that any questions are misleading or inappropriate? If it is all rubbish, then I will have to clear the results and start again.

When I was looking into the range of reasonable responses, I just wanted to know what the range was and how it was used. Obviously the range is no action to dismissal, but how that would be applied. Simplistically it would be for being sacked for saying hello, to being let off for setting fire to the office in a fit of rage and how the average person would see misconduct compared to a management/HR team. I also wanted to see if any pattern of change happened as grades increased, or even as an individual progressed though a career. However, survey monkey only lets you have 10 questions for free!

Anyway, thanks again for taking the time to help and I will let you know if it helps me get a diploma or certificate:ok:

From I.A.T.U. Butler on the CC forum:
So the pilots are only "involved" if they don't support the cabin crew. Supporting the CC is being "neutral"
I love these unbiassed opinions.

And as there is now the prospect of a settlement, the spinning begins. So BASSA will have "won" this dispute because it was about union busting.

It was in fact about cost-cutting. And Unite originally wanted to "protect the brand" and "keep BA premium".

Pensions
 

LB.. Interesting. Good luck with it. I've filled it in. I dunno how to do it, but for lots of the Q.s I wanted to "investigate/gain the facts". maybe the Q.s need to be longer??

On Pensions...

I note that the irrelevancy that is bassa has been ignoring BA's BIGGEST problem - a 4 Billion pound hole in its pension schemes. That is 4 thousand million pounds.

if I worked at BA I would want to throttle anyone like bassa who were putting my pension at risk. If I were, say, an Engineer, I'd want the old contract Spanish practices CSDs who regard themselves as strike leaders to be fired pronto.

They've already moved to CPI increases, rather than RPI.

Not a peep out of bassa. Sleeping under the tomato plants? Maybe still recovering from Brighton going up and Southampton now looking unlikely to be promoted?

AO
 

Cheers. I have tried to get a gut feeling response when you look at a question as it is and how the Clapham Omnibus man would (is that a white van driving Sun reader, or middle class supervisor now?) respond. Thanks for taking the time.

Done, as best I could, and trying very hard not to let my feelings on the BA dispute influence my answers.

However, all data is good data ... until proven otherwise! ;)

Litebulbs
 

If they are on an omnibus LB, they are more likely to be like me - old enough to use my Freedom Pass! :)

Roger.

That is an interesting comment. Is it ok for an employer to become less reasonable due to circumstance? Would the actions carried out by a party in a dispute, give a court more ground for lenience when judging a case?

Discuss:ok:

You are as young as the laws that you live to!

@ LB ... You're stretching my point ... :)

I'm a mildly pi§§ed off SLF. I tried to answer as I would as the employer, given what I've learned over the last couple of years.

1. Yes, I would perhaps be less 'reasonable' if faced with a succession of cases of 'ill-dicipline', especially if warnings had been given generally to the workforce. However, as I don't know that happened in the BA/BASSA case, I tried to play a general scenario when answering the questions.

2. Any party in a dispute surely has to play by the basic rules? That would include not intimidating other personnel at the workplace etc etc. Likewise the company in a dispute should conform to extant agreements, such as agreed disciplinary procedures. It would seem to have been a bit one-sided in those respects.

Of course, if I had been the CEO a few years back, we would never have reached this position :cool:

Meanwhile, on Planet Unreality [aka the CC Thread on a bad day] ... It's quite nice here on Planet Earth, especially as I'm flying BA next week for a nice long holiday ;)

It is gift to be able to argue like I.A.T.U. Butler does on the other thread

Textbook BASSA spin. It's about union busting.... We've won... You'll be next... The pilots!!!!

The Butler seems to think that ONLY the pilots volunteered to help. Going on what I read here and other fora, because one volunteered it did not necessarily mean that you flew, only that you released someone else to fly by covering their job.

I also disagree with him that BA were involved in a union-busting exercise. I am of the opinion that the non strikers are more likely to wish to see BASSA busted. A replacement is desperately needed, whether this be Unite themselves or the likes of the PCCC, I have no opinion. On the contrary, I am fearful that KW will give too much away to BASSA. I fear that this would seriously hinder any further co-operation between BA and the VCCC in the future.


LB pm sent.

I was intrigued by this comment by the mods on the other thread

Can't help but wonder if this is a BASSA person who at the start of this was boasting elsewhere that he had over 200 email addresses so could keep generating new usernames on this site!