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I'm thinking along similar lines mrpony.
One single union branch moving forward. So no more BASSA and that pesky rule that reps must be serving BA CC. DH installed as a permanent salaried secretary of the new single BA CC union? I wouldn't be at all surprised. |
DH installed as a permanent salaried secretary of the new single BA CC union? I wouldn't be at all surprised. |
That wont happen and I am sure all the reps will still be current cabin crew. There maybe full time officials but I very much doubt that DH would be chosen, after all I am sure they are wanting to attract back their previous membership and M/F crew, and employing DH is hardly going to do that!!
Even though DH has a following there are many within Bassa and particularly Amicus who do not like him. |
Is it time for Unite to remove this image from its website?
http://uniteba.com/ESW/Images/walsh_red_eyes.jpg |
DH for fulltime official?
I hope not! He does seem to have a peculiar relationship with the truth as has been demonstrated over the last eighteen months.
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I can't imagine a scenario where the Head Gardener is allowed back into close contact with, or even near, BA's tomatoes. Something at Unite's head orifice maybe.
I am convinced that 'the accounts' is a story that needs air. It suits both Unite and DH to stifle the story ultimately, but in the meantime Unite have someone's balls in a vice. Ouch! |
Although Unite has a track record of giving jobs to sacked BA employees and I believe one of the reps sacked (NM) now works for Unite, I think there is absolutely no chance of Unite giving Duncan a full time role. I expect Unite are glad to see the back of him as much as BA.
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DH
As I see it, as soon as BASSA members vote in agreement with the new deal, DH has no option but to resign immediately. He has only held on to the post in BASSA, as a non BA employee, only because the branch was in dispute with BA.
This will then leave someone else in charge to wrap up BASSA, put the cat out, and let the new single branch be established. As this will take some time to do, I cannot see how DH could cling on to power for that long, in hope of continuing his authority? A vote would also need to be made (I would imagine) to establish a branch secretary for the new branch. Not sure of DH's chances here if he did decide to stand... I would think that the ex-CC89 members and the non-strikers would vote for someone else? It will be interesting to see if DH acts in an honorable way, and stands down, to let things within BA move on, or whether he clings on to power to until the last day... Speaking of CC89, it is interesting that there web site has still no comment on the deal reached yesterday... clearly they can't work out how to react to the deal and the impact on them!? |
When Unite merges the two branches, I do hope it takes full control of BASSA's assets including its domain name and server. It would be unfortunate if BASSA was allowed to continue in an unofficial form with its toxic forum being used to stir up trouble.
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Betty Girl
You have your opinions of WW, which I respect, but I don't believe he is anything as bad as you portray.
Through successive weak BA managements over the years DH & BASSA had successfuly taken complete control over BA's IFCE operations. WW couldn't just walk-up to DH and say "by the way, dear chap, that's not cricket you know, how about giving me control of my company back please." Having let it get so out of line BA needed to restore the balance of power. BA, through WW, had no choice but to build up defenses (VCC, MF, temp CC, contract charter services, etc.) while attempting to negotiate reasonably then take DH/BASSA head-on and lock-horns in an all out fully-fledged power-struggle (war). When you lock-horns you throw everything at your adversary that you possibly can (i.e. initially "ST gone for ever" - which, after taking the upper hand, WW did offer to return before his promotion). As head of IAG, WW is still in charge with overall responsibility for both BA and now Iberia. Do you think he would have allowed KW to negotiate anything he would not have approved? I was always surprised that WW was directly involved in negotiations to start with. Most CEOs have their staff front the negotiation while controlling them from a back room. Indeed as a tactic, inadvertent as it was, the Union having Unite's GS fronting the negotiations with DH in the back room having ultimate control over acceptance made BA's negotiating position all the harder. I was often surprised BA did not change their tactics in this regard and you could view the final situation of KW fronting the negotiations for WW as establishing that very position. WW's personal presence would then have been less apparent as it is now. DH (and LMcL) need to be thankful that BA did not embarass them by making them have to make the strike call before the holiday thus making them look foolish in front of their members. The number of failed ballots was a pretty bad spectacle already. The fact they were not and are attempting to spin a victory out of a complete capitualtion is a statement of their megalomanical personalities. Indeed, Unite is lucky that BA did not let the situation develop to an eventual melt-down ending in Union derecognition. As many have said, BA got the Union it deserved. The same is only too true for the CC in that they get the Union they deserve (elect) too. I would suggest that intelligent, thinking, moderate and sensible CC such as yourself take great care to promote and elect a very different executive to the 'unruly mob' that wielded power before. Perhaps some of the people behind the PCCC should put themselves forward for election? In stripping the power from the current executive, BA have created an opportunity for the rank-and-file to think again and choose a very different executive moving forwards. They could, of course, sit back and let the existing power-hungry, unintelligent and immature mob to regroup under a different name, take back the reigns, and lead the Union back to business as usual. CC have the choice....... |
Good point LDnumbers.
Forum is managed, manipulated and moderated by none other than........from a home address. I doubt the Bassa name will survive any rebranding of the Union offer to CC because it has picked up a bit of a whiff - it's not polish-able. |
Talking about a any 'unofficial' future for BASSA could there be any connection with the recently incorporated entity?
BASSA LIMITED 130 BOURNEMOUTH ROAD CHANDLERS FORD EASTLEIGH EASTLEIGH HANTS ENGLAND SO53 3AL Company No. 07492282 Status: Active Date of Incorporation: 13/01/2011 |
On the other thread Pornpants asks whether this is unbiased reporting.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/c...w-dispute.html Whether it is unbiased or not I cannot say, but from my point of view the author has it just right. |
As I see it, as soon as BASSA members vote in agreement with the new deal, DH has no option but to resign immediately. He has only held on to the post in BASSA, as a non BA employee, only because the branch was in dispute with BA. This will then leave someone else in charge to wrap up BASSA, put the cat out, and let the new single branch be established. As this will take some time to do, I cannot see how DH could cling on to power for that long, in hope of continuing his authority? A vote would also need to be made (I would imagine) to establish a branch secretary for the new branch. Not sure of DH's chances here if he did decide to stand... I would think that the ex-CC89 members and the non-strikers would vote for someone else? It will be interesting to see if DH acts in an honorable way, and stands down, to let things within BA move on, or whether he clings on to power to until the last day... All IMHO of course. |
Betty Girl
Very many thanks for your reply on the Professionals' Thread. I have read carefully and thought through your responses but still can't see WW is as bad as he is portrayed by many CC.
It is very difficult to tackle an opponent who, when questioned, puts his fingers in his ears, says "no negotiation go away", and calls strike action quickly when you don't depart but instead continue to challenge his position. As with a recalcitrant child, hard-ball and perhaps a little isolation on the naughty-step is a very appropriate response. BASSA needed to be pushed right-up to where it finally admitted its back was against the wall before it threw in the towel. It's the only way to deal with bullies. Anything short would have let BASSA live to recover for another day. As it happens, I believe BA should have played a fraction harder and pushed home its victory just a little further and in showing clemency when it did has risked leaving a chink open for an old style BASSA resurgence - only time will tell. I think if WW is as hard-headed as people say he would not have hired someone as apparently convivial as KW to work for him and WW's alleged hard-man attitude would have pervaded throughout the entire IAG organisation which clearly is not the case. A good example of this effect is DH's leadership style and BASSA's appalingly immature behaviour. But then the world would be a dull place if we all agreed. Well done for keeping us all appraised of the inside view throughout this entire matter. I, for one, am planning travel with BA again later this year. |
AVF/BettyG
I agree with the thrust of what AVF says re. WW. Plus:
WW picked himself (rightly) as the best person to negotiate with Unite/Bassa, as the mouthpiece for all the unpopular structural change that was needed and as a lightning rod for all the discontent that it caused. But remember that the main board and all the top exec's including Williams were right behind him knowing exactly what sort of character he is. WW had been comprehensively 'beasted' by BASSA from the day he joined so had little to lose by proving them right. |
Whatever happened to that 10 point list of issues that had to be resolved eh Dunc?
Has he actually read the agreement because there are going to be surprises down the line when BASSA disappears, staff travel does not come back straight away and BA asks for more productivity improvements to fund the payrise. In the aftermath of yesterday’s “meeting in a tent” to quote C4, I thought perhaps timely to give you my personal view of where we are in the light that all members will now be balloted on the settlement document. I have just this morning read it myself for the first time, I know you are all anxious to see the small print and all being well we should be in a position to publish it on the website around noon on Monday. We did promise BA that it would have a synchronised release and that is the earliest date all sides are able to come up with and also we have yet to go through it with the reps so they can answer your questions etc when the time comes. I have to say - speaking as a “pink-jacketed militant” - I am really comfortable with everything I have seen, I think it is a honourable conclusion to what has been a bloody battle. Compared to where we were last October this document is unrecognisable and I sincerely believe it offers all the desired safeguards and protections you have fought for and suffered for. I was very wholesome in my praise of Nigel, Chris and Len yesterday because they all deserve it, but I have got to say it seems to me that finally we have a man running BA who has some empathy with what we try to do on your behalf and some recognition that we can work together for the greater good. I don’t want to embarrass Mr Williams, and no doubt my endorsement will cause him to shift uncomfortably in his seat, but everything that has been passed back to me from those at the coal face convinces me that we now have now a leader with a genuine desire for peace and a determination to ensure the mistakes of the past are learnt from. You only have to look at the sensible language of the document to realise we are now dealing with someone who realises being fair and respectful of his employees is the most practical way forward. He has already gone a long way to earn the trust of three people I trust and that is good enough for me. I would like to say a few words about LGW. I know the reps and those brave souls who did take industrial action feel deserted now BA have announced they are to form their own NSP but I feel they have nothing to fear. Nothing down there will change, they will still be operating exactly as they have over the last few years and indeed that document gives them as much protection as it does the members at LHR. They will have their own branch, constitution etc and I have offered my help in setting up any structures they feel they need. All 3 reps backed the action and have supported me on a personal level. They are good people and LGW cabin crew will be wise to adopt them as their new leadership, certainly to start with. The reality is however, if we had tried to resist BA’s plans it could have meant balloting LHR crews to go on strike on behalf of a base that in reality did not support us; no matter how much we try and defend what is right we have got to be pragmatic as well. In some ways I am sorry to be leaving because I really believe this agreement will soothe troubled waters that have been far too choppy for far too long. There will be, as Len mentioned yesterday, further spats but with a trusting relationship being created for the first time in many years, life should be a lot less stressful for everybody. As I looked out upon that massive gathering yesterday I really did feel quite emotional. The responsibility of encouraging a workforce to take strike action and all that involves was not one that sat lightly on my shoulders despite everything that has been said in other quarters. There wasn’t a night over the last year and a half where I did not doubt the direction we were all heading and I know my fellow reps all had similar concerns. But I felt we had no choice and also we would not have another chance to resist something I felt was intrinsically unjust. I am not afraid to say that I would do it all again because I genuinely believe it was the only option - I am only sorry there were so many casualties. So many of you told me yesterday how unwell this dispute had made you; it was very sobering listening. I have certainly had my eyes opened over these last few years. I have learnt a lot about certain colleagues within BA, I have been educated about the judiciary system in this country and I have learnt a lot about how the media works. But most of all I have learnt a lot about myself and 7000 BA crew and it is those two learning curves that will stay with me the longest. I realise that the fat lady has yet to clear her throat and there is the not unimportant matter of a ballot before this deal can be ratified. It is important that everyone has a voice and the majority decision is respected. That will happen over the next month. Please participate. One good thing if this dispute is finally over, is I can get cracking on putting the tomatoes into the grow bags, think about going on a diet - I put on 3lbs just standing next to the burger van yesterday, and hopefully start being a bit nicer to my family, now there is not so much to get stressed about. Finally I know a lot of you have lots of questions as to how this is all going to pan out “logistics” wise, especially those who have been disciplined during the dispute but some of the fine detail has yet to be explained to those that will be involved and of course the deal has not yet been signed off so please bear with everyone while ducks are put in a row. Have a good weekend, especially those going to Andrea’s party and thank you all for your support without which we will not have come so far. Rgds Duncan |
What a nice man! :ooh:
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What a pompous person! He uses the kind of language that is meant to be interpreted as modest but is actually self-aggrandising.
Sounds like a non-eloquent Tony Blair. That is, nothing rings true. |
I've just read DH latest ????
I now need some help. There's now a pile of vomit all over my lounge carpet. Can't blame the dog as don't have one sadly. So any ideas folks on how I can explain this to my dear wife mañana. ( message to the mods. Sorry but we as non strikers have their fill over the last couple of years, so please allow us a little leeway to be flippant. Thanks) |
I'm amazed. I don't know whether to pity the guy for his stupidity or get angry at the overweaning self importance, bloated ego and arrogance that enables him to lie so glibly.
The tent revival meeting attracted a few hundred supporters according to the media - In my book that is not a 'massive gathering' . The document is actually no better than that negotiated by Willie Walsh and Tony Woodley last year, but admitting that would really stick in Duncan's craw. I don't think he could ever have brought himself to recommend any deal that had been assembled by Willie Walsh. Hard to deal with someone who you have made out as the bogeyman, but then that highlights the difference between the two. Walsh never considered it as a personal thing, it was always on a business footing - what was best for the company. I do wonder how Mr Holley sleeps at night knowing that his actions have caused somuch pain to so many other people. He admits to the impact on cabin crew, but casually omots to consider the impact on other BA staff and BA's customers. But then I suppose he reckons they weren't important. In fact once he knew he had goofed and got himself sacked, he had no skin in the game at all, but could dictate from the sidelines secure in the knowledge that he was untouchable - the worst had already happened to him so he had nothing to lose by prolonging the dispute, in fact he retained an income stream as a consequence. The offer of assistance in setting up new branches made me laugh. It would be an absolute fool who employed him in such a capacity. His apparent scorn for governance and due process means he is the last person who should be called in for advice. I'd also suggest that any endorsement from Duncan is the kiss of death for any hopefuls looking for branch leadership. So the three reps he advocates at LGW can feel reassured ! Last thing that struck was it is somewhat ironic that BASSA must be one of the few branches in trade unionism that can claim to have had successive branch secretaries sacked for misconduct. Is it something they've been putting in the tea in the union offices ? |
While it appears Duncan has been bought off by Unite, where do CC89 and the rest of the Bassa leadership stand with this new old deal? Maybe someone such as MissM could comment.
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three questions
1) Does NSP stand for National Sectional Panel?
2) What is the NSP and what does it do? 3) What is ACC and what does it do? |
The arrogance of the man is breathtaking. He is so thick that he cannot see what he has done to the CC over the past two years. His hatred of WW is of no consequence because its WW and KW who have won - not him.
I am surprised that this wasn't picked up, but for me it is the most important part of his 'statement.' In some ways I am sorry to be leaving because I really believe this agreement will soothe troubled waters that have been far too choppy for far too long. There will be, as Len mentioned yesterday, further spats but with a trusting relationship being created for the first time in many years, life should be a lot less stressful for everybody. Good luck to all the CC for a future that looks much better today than it did two days ago. You really do deserve a happy life now. |
..where do CC89 and the rest of the Bassa leadership stand with this new old deal? Maybe someone such as MissM could comment. It appears that this will now become (partly) contractual, so to be fair, that is some improvement, perhaps substantive improvement seeing BASSA were convinced BA were acting in bad faith and would remove anything non-contractual. It appears to me however that the rest of the "improvements" in the offered deal are purely cosmetic - BASSA gain nothing without a change in their own attitudes and behaviour. Whether that's enough to change a deal from crappy to honourable remains to be seen. Personally, I think that if WW had offered this very deal, it would still have been perceived (and spun) as the former by BASSA :rolleyes: |
They will have their own branch, constitution etc and I have offered my help in setting up any structures they feel they need.
This is akin to getting King Herod to help open a new branch of Mothercare!!! |
Dorkan Holy - For it is he.
Trade Unionism will never be the same without this great man.
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They will have their own branch, constitution etc and I have offered my help in setting up any structures they feel they need. |
Betty Girl,
I actually have no difficulty with the concept of Staff Travel in retirement equalling length of service, except that that is not what was offered, and promised, when we started, and for some, older than me, who cut their service by taking Severance that was dangled before them to help the Company, Staff Travel for the length of ones' retirement was written into to the Severance packet, albeit with the usual caveat of 'concession' not 'entitlement' of course, so there is no legal recourse against this retrospective attack. ( I've seen such a document ) I know of one old codger ( 77 now ) pilot who took severance at age 48, 7 years before the normal retirement age, then, of 55 for pilots, sure it suited him, to deal with a "mid-life crisis", but it suited the company too or they wouldn't have offered it. Had he not accepted the company carrot he would have retired 7 years later ( on a better pension, too ) and had 7 years more service ( that the Company would have had to pay him a salary for ) so he has effectively lost 14 years of his staff travel in retirement, and living out of the UK really feels kicked in the guts by WW and his gang. Even pilots retiring at normal age of 55, have effectively lost 20 years travel in retirement over general staff working to 65 ( 10 years later with 10 years more service ) The number of old codgers like this who would actually take advantage of Staff Travel during their 80's and 90's must be almost negligible, so this retrospective action against them is just cruel and totally un-ethical, especially as retired staff from other airlines will enjoy our old retired geezers seats available without such a restriction, including Iberia retired staff, one presumes, or does anyone know if WW is going to try an attack them, too ? Best of British if he does, he may need Drake and the Armada behind him if he tries it on them ! But I'm sure you're "Alright, Jack" ( or Betty, as the case may be ) |
BA must try to be the Good Guy
As a complete outsider I strongly agree with YorkshireTyke._ The cost to BA is slight, but much more important is the non-morality of a retrospective change of this particular benefit to those already retired._ BA should give it back to those who retired before the announcement by BA of this particular cost-cutting exercise.
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Diary of a striker....
I went on strike. I don't know why. I lost a few days pay but gave the BMW an outing. It was like a nice little holiday. I was going to go sick, as usual, but the Union said that I might not be paid. Took the kids to some place quite near Heathrow, had a good shout, and an interesting bus ride. My employer took away my free travel, so some of the cash that I used to get from various mates from giving them freebies was reduced. I'm told we won whatever the strike was about. I haven't got my free travel back yet, but I'm told I will get it back, with extra compensation for losing it in the first place. At one stage, someone said in 5 minutes, but I have got used to not holding my breath. There is one less person on some of the planes that I crew on, but I haven't noticed as I'm senior and I get to sleep for lots of the time. Someone has been leaving lights on in the bunks. That earns us some extra money for some strange reason. I always use eye-shades, so I don't notice, but the money comes in hand. There are some new, and younger faces at the CRC. I'm told that I shouldn't mix with them as they are New. My Union rep says that the Union battled hard to keep them off my planes. I haven't seen any on the Sin and NRT routes, yet. There appear to be some pilots and engineers and even some beancounters training up as Volunteer crew. Clearly, we are so important that every one else has to be trained up in our job. I hope they take their sickies on a regular basis. I would not want our sickies to be lost - they come in very handy at some times of year. The money keeps rolling in now, so I'm happy enough. I still have not met my manager. I saw him (it would be a him) once, in the distance. The TU rep, who is around much more, has warned me to avoid managers. I'm told that the Union dislikes managers nearly as much as it dislikes pilots. When I was younger, I used to enjoy being with the pilots, in all sorts of ways, but as I've got older I don't fancy them so much. I'm going to retire in about 3 years. I am very pleased that my Union has kept a very close eye on my pension plan, and that it is very healthy,and guaranteed by the Union. I once heard that it was owed 4 billion pounds by BA, but that can't be right. I couldn't go to the mid week meeting. I spent most of the day on the net trying to ensure that I've got the correct Wimbledon tickets. A friend went. I'm told we have won a great victory. I'm looking forward to hearing about what we have won. Bye bye. |
Sorry NSP had already been explained by several posters e.g.
link Also a Google search throws up from the near past National Sectional Panel (NSP) Where agreement is not reached locally or on cross departmental issues the NSP becomes involved. Most GMB members are represented at the Administrative Staff NSP, although our members in Engineering, IFCE and Management Grades have their own NSPs. The Administrative Staff (A Scales) NSP meets quarterly at LHR. And from the far past National Sectional Panel of the National Joint Council for Civil Air Transport: differences arising between British European Airways Corporation and the pilots in its employment regarding the working of certain winter schedules |
How many WERE in the tent?
The tent revival meeting attracted a few hundred supporters according to the media - In my book that is not a 'massive gathering' . |
Now that the fight is over, both BASSA's collective and DH's individual pathological insanities (hereinbefore "the BASSAmentalist culture") continue, yet again, to help BA in its otherwise difficult final task of quickly restoring CC relations to normality.
As a result of having had his back trapped against the wall, DH has irrationally and completely delusionally switched his position on what amounts to almost identical offers made by BA between March 2010 & May 2011 from 'all bad and totally unacceptable' to 'all good and what we were fighting for' (while conveniently choosing not to mention his recent specious 10 points for strike action) and in doing so has the majority of his 5811 strike-supporting CC running around partying (yet again!) saying 'My God I can't believe it but we've actually WON!' To summarise AO's post above, the BASSA and legacy CC's indoctrinated mantra is "BA want change", "we say NO", "BA don't back down", "we go on strike have a party and behave like children", "BA back down and we WIN". CC have no reason or wish to comprehend the content or realities of what they are being asked to do and appear to have no knowledge or even seem to care that they are now worse off. BASSA says "the strike is over" ergo "we have WON". Its deluded CC's perceived realities matter not one jot to BA as long as it has achieved everything it wanted, and ideally more, which it has infact done. The fact that this delusion has made these CC ecstatic instead of mortally shamed in their abject defeat just adds to BA's skill and accompanying good fortune in dealing with this dispute. To us rational, intelligent and sane people this has been an amazing lesson in watching the unthinking, herd, mentality of some of our fellow beings. I would never have thought to witness such immature behaviour and stupidity among a relatively large group of people who are employed in a role giving them responsibility for the safety of hundreds of us passengers on commercial airline flights. This, in itself, is a somewhat troubling issue if viewed in isolation and should probably be a topic for another thread. BA management must be laughing all the way to the start of their next round of customer service and productivity improving measures....... Absolutely un - bloody - believable! AVF |
AV Flyer:
Duncan knows BASSA lost, the BASSA members know they lost...but what else is there for them to do but try to declare some sort of victory? They can't say "Wow, this is horrific and we absolutely messed this up from the start." So, they try to forget the reason for striking, forget what they were fighting for, and rewrite history so that they can squeeze out whatever drop of dignity there is left for them in this result. I'm impressed as can be what BA accomplished with this settlement and it could only have happened with the cooperation of Unite who must have been darn tired of the BASSA problem. BA gives away less than in previous offers, gains MF, and they also manage to reorganize a dysfunctional union. BA Legacy Crew are rather like the Mel Gibson of the airline world and all self-inflicted. From a business standpoint you have to say "Well done BA". |
is the company obligated to let retired staff keep this, or indeed any ST benefit - No. They were not done as a cost saving measure, indeed the changes were pretty much cost neutral. Prior to the changes staff that resigned lost all ST, As an insider, |
Back on topic:
Quote by The Moo on the other thread:
"Finally people who go on about " It's all about the removal of 1 off the A/C " are ignorant to the facts. We went on strike due to imposition ( not the reduced crew comps ) and as this was the only thing that had been imposed this was the only thing we could cite." If anybody wanted objective evidence of why WW had to take a sustained "hard" line (note in some industries, it would have been perceived as pussyfooting) in this IA, this quote is it. The Union went on strike because of imposition - ie after refusing to negotiate, it was disputing the fundamental right of management to manage. This was a very overt act of mutiny. IR in major economic entities is a big-boys' game, not a nursery school romp, and it appears that many BASSA and CC89 supporters still don't understand this, which is rather worrying for the future. |
New Mangement, New Hope
Travel for the length of ones' retirement was written into to the Severance packet, albeit with the usual caveat of 'concession' not 'entitlement' of course, so there is no legal recourse against this retrospective attack. ( I've seen such a document )
Prior to the changes staff that resigned lost all ST No they didn't, if accepting Severance S.T. concessions were immediately available, and promised for life |
delusional
If DH can construe the outcome as a BASSA victory, can we really criticise the sheep for following his leadership and believing what BASSA sees fit to tell them?
We have the benefit of viewing this from the sidelines and that gives us a perspective 'the grand old Dukeof York' , lost among the tomatoes, cannot have. |
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