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LD12986 - As a real self-loader, I admit to not knowing the detail. Looking at things at a general level, it seems to me that compromise has been given on both parties - something which Walsh has never done in his career.
Regardless, this is a real opportunity for BA to clean up their brand and move on. I fear this will be hard to achieve in the immediate future whilst both sides claim the pyrrhic victory. What I will predict however, it will get alot quieter in this section of PPRuNe shortly!! Crew bashing might even stop to a trickle from now on! |
moses
yes of course, your 'in the oil' aren't you as your first post says, having no other interest in BA etc.
yes, really. right. OkeyDokey. |
Clear win
Nonsense - clear win for BA, CC and SLF...
Game, set and match... |
mrpony - you're back from yer love-in then.
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I understand that the VCC were asked to provide a stop-gap to help out, nothing more, but they must have put in a lot of effort and time to qualify to meet the standard, as well as keep the show on the road. Anyone else feel that it is a bit of a shame that they are apparently to be disbanded. Would it have been fair to offer some a shot at flying now and again just as a a bit of recognition. Would be in my book, but then again, I don't work for an airline.
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moses
yes of course, your 'in the oil' aren't you as your first post says, having no other interest in BA etc. yes, really. right. OkeyDokey. __________________ I find it remarkable that people who agree with your views, never have their integrity questioned. Yet when I come on and stick up for the minority, your only retort is that I must be a liar, cabin crew and a fraud. Hmmmm. When I say I work in the oil, I work in the oil - pal. |
I find it remarkable that people who agree with your views, never have their integrity questioned. Yet when I come on and stick up for the minority, your only retort is that I must be a liar, cabin crew and a fraud. Hmmmm. When I say I work in the oil, I work in the oil - pal. |
Surely every member of the SLF thread should be happy that getting to their destination will be unaffected by industrial action (acceptance depending)?
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Notlangley,
Hi, In answer to your question, VCCs going, makes no difference to me sitting at home more often having not been rostered a flight because the VCCs were always extra crew and have not recently been rostered with E/F or WW. The lack of work is due to not enough part time being offered or taken up prior to the transfer of some of our routes to Mixed Fleet. I am optimistic that this is a short term problem and hopefully people will feel more secure now to take up these offers and it will, I hope, balance out. I hope so anyway! As for the offer, I have not read it yet but have been told it is similar to what I had already signed, as I thought it would be, and I am therefore happy. I am happy it is all over but also sad that this situation ever happened and I do feel that it could have been handled better by WW. I do note though that BA have got a lot of what they wanted. A new way of working with BASSA, less reps off-lined, less meetings with reps and the golden prise of an army of cheep labour which are, I hope, going to eventually get a few improvements to their pay and rostering but will save BA a huge amount of cash!!! So I feel BA are the winners in all this. |
Litebulbs - No, No, and No again. It isn't about just getting there. It is about service.
Take off your TU hat, and put on your SLF hat. All the reports on here and on Flyertalk have said two things. 1. Service consistency is bad at BA. Some flights are great, some are awful. 2. Service was so much better when the strikes were on. GG, BG, Hiflyer et al were able to deliver consistently better service when the strikes were on. Whatever deal has been done must ensure that service is delivered excellently, every time, at each and every moment of truth. The managers must be improved to help CC deliver this, and CC must be free from bassa to deliver service, rather than worrying about their "rights". Otherwise, this Pension fund with a little airline attached to it will go to the wall. |
moses
I find it remarkable that people who agree with your views, never have their integrity questioned. Yet when I come on and stick up for the minority, your only retort is that I must be a liar, cabin crew and a fraud. |
All a bit to late, people like myself have found it more pleasureable flying with other airlines. Hollow victory for whoever claims it.
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AO
As far as I am aware, the dispute was due to the financial state of the company, not about its service standards. You will get good and bad service from all fleets.
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At last. At the end of the day this deal isn't as good for cc as the one on offer before the first round of strikes to say nothing of what might have been were it not for the juvenile 'no negotiation' nonsense at a time when the rest of the company was pulling together to stay in business.
We all know the reason this dispute has finally been settled. Unite had nothing left except the hollow threat of a strike, BA were operating the way they wanted anyway, and WW moved up to IAG which enabled Unite to save face by blaming him whilst actually accepting a lesser deal :D |
I have just witnessed on TV the acts and antics of a group of people who, quite rightly, should be enjoying the fact that the dispute was over. But were the digs and childish rants and wolf masks meant to prove something? For me it was embarrassing that people who should have known better behave in this way. The only message anyone could get from their ridiculous line of underpants (again) and that "It is time for a snip Willie" shows that they are trying to gloat but have failed. Instead, the rabble, who never know when to stop proved that a serious dispute was the the farce that it was.
Its over folks. Thank Unite - because it wasn't BASSA who got the result. They weren't capable. |
I see this settlement as a very positive move for BA. It truly is a rather stunning display of how to neuter a dysfunctional union and it is obvious that Unite felt the need to contain BASSA and have cooperated with BA in solving the BASSA problem.
A diminished influence and a very diminished reputation. Legacy cabin crew, though trying to put on a game face and squeeze a win out of this, must be cringing inside. Now perhaps BA can start working on elevating their service level without a "No" being declared at every turn. Winner: BA, its employees and passengers. Loser: BASSA and the PCCC. |
BA have recruited a director from Jumeirah Group with the intention to improve the BA service and product offering. He is determined to focus on the customer experience and admits that 'too much cheese has been scraped off the pizza'.
There will be less focus on cost and more of a focus on improving the whole experience to put BA back amongst the leading airlines. Big improvements are on the way especially in areas such as catering. The relaunch of the brand will see big changes over the next year. The dispute settlement allows this process to start. Exciting times ahead. |
we don't seem to have had any real reports yet of what happened at todays meeting. did DH say anything?
remember that there are still 5800 BASSA members who have consistently voted for strikes. if DH decides to make some statements about sacked staff not getting fair treatment, no real benefits in the new offer etc, and CC89 make statements/complaints about 1 union in future it is still possible for the new offer to be rejected totally. this is not over yet. from all that has gone before, i cannot see DH resigning yet, and his input could still have a great say on this matter. do you think he wants to give up the earnings/influence he has without a fight. i doubt UNITE would want him on the payroll, as that would scupper any chance of this agreement working, so his only foreseeable income over the next months/years is his union stipend and expenses. my reading of the facts we have at the moment is that this is a comprehensive win for BA, and a loss for PCCC. however, if BASSA gets a rejection vote to the deal, PCCC can then come out into the open and shout from the rooftops. this is the only real chance they have to influence the future. they may, of course, be able to get a majority at Gatwick and get recognition there; but that will again mean coming out into the open. so, although it looks good at the moment for a settlement, we need to wait aand see how BASSA and CC89 react to this. |
Uniteba?
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There will be an end. They will vote to accept and their Union is recommending it.
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I find the proposal to disband BASSA & CC89 to be replaced by one Unite branch at LHR and a separate Unite branch together with new NSPs ,whatever they are (LB?), quite interesting. I wonder if this is Len's way of stopping the BASSA tail wagging Unite's tail? Perhaps this is Len's win out of all this?
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I think it is a good move. I actually respect Unite as a union, it's just BASSA and CC89 that I have lost repect for and I felt they had got too powerful and had stopped representing the majority of their members.
I will wait and see what happens but I might rejoin in the future if the people at the top change to ones I could trust. |
National Sectional Panel if I remember correctly.
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National Sectional Panel if I remember correctly. |
It is where the senior reps from all the different branches (or workplaces/areas) have tea and cake, then pop in to a meeting to run the Airline, if you believe what is said on here.
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It is where the senior reps from all the different branches (or workplaces/areas) have tea and cake |
In this case, I think NSP refers to the groups of reps that discuss different issues with BA. In the NSP both BASSA and Amicus(Cc89) had reps. BASSA had a larger number. I believe there are different NSP's to discus different subjects but all that is about to change.
My manager has told me that prior to the strike sixteen different meetings a month took place with BASSA. This is going to be reduced to one a month and that sounds good to me. |
Surely every member of the SLF thread should be happy that getting to their destination will be unaffected by industrial action (acceptance depending)? I am sure, Litebulbs, that any SF worth his/her salt is/was perfectly capable of finding alternative carriers during the entire dispute. The trouble is that many former BA pax will not return to flying with a company which has had such an appalling, demoralised and dispirited cabin attendant work force up to now. I see BA having to shell out for a lot of advertising and other blandishments to tempt business passengers back into the fold. |
Litebulbs has told us that:
As far as I am aware, the dispute was due to the financial state of the company, not about its service standards. You will get good and bad service from all fleets. |
Originally Posted by chow
The trouble is that many former BA pax will not return to flying with a company which has had such an appalling, demoralised and dispirited cabin attendant work force up to now.
Premium and absolute passenger numbers have been improving even despite the threat of IA. The "relaunch", and of IA and improved BASSA-interference free customer experience (hot towels in WT+ anyone?) can only help that. The bottom line is that most BA cabin crew stuck to their knitting and continued to deliver good service. That was my experience on over 120 BA flights during the course if this action. Those that did not, well, a new culture of performance assessment will see to that. And Mixed Fleet, once bedded in, will prove to be a boon for passenger service, equal to, if not exceeding, the others fleets in terms of service. This is a real opportunity for customers to become central to what BA is all about, and I commend it wholeheartedly. |
Premium and absolute passenger numbers have been improving even despite the threat of IA. Chuchinchow is right, though, once a company loses a loyal customer, it is hard work to reclaim them. I asked you a few posts back if you work for BA and I notice you did not respond. I put it to you that you know little about the real workings of an airline and that you might be better to refrain from posting such definitive comments about the situation at BA and listen to Betty Girl (and other employees) who actually understand what they are talking about. |
When I say I work in the oil, I work in the oil - pal. |
Surprised no one commented on this
One representative at the meeting, Duncan Holley, said there had been a "wind of change" at BA under new chief executive, Keith Williams. Mr Holley, who was one of those sacked by the airline during the dispute, said the airline had taken some "brave steps", and the union should match those brave steps. Glad that an end is in sight for the sake of everyone who works at BA. |
Originally Posted by jimd-f
we don't seem to have had any real reports yet of what happened at todays meeting. did DH say anything?
Originally Posted by The Holley
What have you got? 1. A permanent contractual top up payment if you are out of pocket through routes going to mixed fleet - plus a review of fairness of distribution. 2. Staff travel back in it's entirety. (Remember that was only happening over WW's dead body). 3. No more VCCs 4. Independant binding arbitration for all discips and sackings 5. Your union back as before with reps in offices etc 6. a pay deal the same as the pilots 7. no new redeployment agreement 8. A guarantee that your agreements will be honoured as long as you remain employed at LHR as cabin crew. 9. Transfer rights and part-time tights restored on a vacancy led sytem 10. In house promotion will continue There is probably more but I am still trying to calm down after coming in from a fantastic meeting and reading your post, but I will say this to you this my friend - What you really have got out of this dispute is something that is not tangible, nor will it be of much financial benefit. It is something that money cannot buy - it is called dignity pride and respect and that means because of the stand you took, BA will now be treating you like human beings - you have earned the admiration of the trade union world and even the media who today were full of praise for what we have all done. And finally you will have learnt the value of unity, comradeship and togetherness that can only be achieved by standing up side by side to be counted in extreme adversity. I have lost a lot of things during this dispute but i am so proud not only of myself but so proud in those of you who had the guts, the courage and the loyalty to back me, back BASSA and most importantly back yourself. I would do it all again, I suspect even with hindsight so would most of you. Perhaps some new uniform requirement for legacy crew? :rolleyes: |
What you really have got out of this dispute is something that is not tangible |
Reading between the lines, the return of ST ("over WW's dead body") is the item that makes this an "honourable" deal.
BASSA have (in their view) an element of revenge in that they perceive WW will be unhappy. What they are (perhaps conveniently) missing is that ST will be returned only in exchange for a sea-change in industrial relations. In my view, ST removal was always meant as a strike deterrent, not as a punishment. No need for such a policy going forward if industrial relations are finally normalised. Once again, sound strategy from BA, with BASSA seemingly missing the point. |
Mariner9
Once again, sound strategy from BA, with BASSA seemingly missing the point. Glad it's all over & looking forward to massive improvements in the overall BA product. |
the return of ST ("over WW's dead body") is the item that makes this an "honourable" deal. |
Yorkshiretyke,
Did you not work for BA for very long then! As I understand staff travel for retirees is that you keep your concessions for the same length of period that you worked for BA. So if you retired at 60 and had worked for BA for 25 years you would keep your staff travel until you were 85, 35 years employment would mean you would keep them until 95 years old! It is only those that never worked for BA for very long that will lose them early. I do agree that it is a shame this change has been done retrospectively but overall staff travel for retired staff is still a great thing to have been able to enjoy and still a great benefit. I am sad for you that due to your lack of service length you are being affected by this change. I think you are still able to take advantage of Hotline tickets though. Good luck in your retirement |
The way Duncan is spinning the deal means he is out to gain something personally Dunc needs Unite to be nice to him. His future depends on Unite for either or both of the following two reasons: 1. Accounts. 2. Job. So of course he is fully behind the deal because of the 'winds of change' that have blown through BA and can declare a moral victory with benefits that are 'not tangible'. He will be towing the Unite line with horrible and hypocritical tenacity for the foreseeable future. Watch and retch. |
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