Gatwick & co
 

Now that we're getting down to the nitty gritty - it seems obvious that Gatwick and LCY CC are shining examples throughout this dispute, both from the viewpoint of backing BA and not striking and, in the manner in which the vast majority have continued to provide first class service to the customers.

With that background, why don't all CC at LGW and LCY who feel that the situation has now gone too far, with yet another call for strike action, simply resign from their respective unions, Amicus, Bassa et al., and join the PCCC.

In doing this, they may bring about the following;

Reduce Bassa's membership to the point where Bassa can no longer maintain their rights of representation.

Provide a quick boost to PCCC's membership level, allowing BA to recognise them as having representation capabilities.

Remove Amicus from the picture, as it would seem that LGW CC have never really been happy with the absorbtion of CC89 and the resulting lack of control of their destiny. (Not that Bassa allowed anybody any control either).

Any thoughts anybody ?

Entaxei,

Firstly, LCY crew are not part of Mainline BA but Cityflier so the strike didn't include them at all.

There are only about 150 Unite members left at LGW (estimate).

I think LGW crew (myself included) need a specific LGW union type organisation, whether an actual union or works council or whatever.

I'm all for getting rid of Bassa, as they've done nothing but tarnish our reputation in the last (however many) years.

MIDLGW
 

Thanks for that information, I always did wonder at the 'quiet' LCY part of the organisation that always appeared to be talked about, but never spoke for themselves!! - but never used, so never knew ....

Great news about the likely union membership now in existence at LGW, from the viewpoint of removing the Bassa influence from that area of BA operations and, at least LGW CC have the brains and intelligence to decide for themselves the sensible course of action in this ridiculous dispute amidst all the threats and lies being thrown around by Bassa.

I can understand your comment about the need for a formally structured organisation, I guess things will to resolve themselves once Bassa is dead and muttering.

So apologies for the abortive post, but as always it seemed like a good idea at the time!! ;)

A reminder:

Ain't it just!
:ok:

“BA sacked my Mum” t-shirts....
 

I really despair at the mentality of a parent that involves her infants in an industrial dispute. And the union that promotes such an act.

<<Pedant Alert!>>

Once an organism is dead, entaxei, how can it mutter?

<<Alert Over!>>

I thought rep elections were on the agenda at this meeting? Any news on DH's position?

Seriously, who would have stood up and questioned DH's right to be there, despite not being a BA employee?

In a room full of lemmings?

Entaxei,

Further to MIDLGW's comments, sadly the last thing we at LGW need is another "LHR" Union and a faceless one at that. A "union" that insists on staying annonymous for fear for their safety while letting another crew member take the flak for supposedly being behind it. (An apology and denial from those at the top might have been nice!)

A while back, I asked HiFlyer exactly how many LGW crew are involved in the organising of PCCC. I didn't ask for names, just the number of crew yet HiFlyer declined to answer, once again rolling out the old "fear for the safety of it's organisers" excuse. Sorry, it doesn't wash with me anymore. Been there, got the tee-shirt! And for the record, as far as I'm aware and unless the situation has changed recently, there are no LGW crew involved.

It's a shame as I had high hopes for PCCC but the lack of conviction by those behind it has made me think that they will achieve very little. I now agree with MIDLGW. We need our own representation, run by crew that are not distracted by whats going on up the road and that understand our own issues. How about it, MID? ;)

Forgive me if this has already been mentioned already, its concerning the
colour yellow and the meeting for the BA strikes yesterday, watching Sky News last night, a reporter was interviewing one of the strikers, I found it rather alarming that his colour yellow was worn in the shape of the Star of David on his lapel with BASSA written in the middle, rather bad taste !!!insulting to many!!! very very sad

JetsetLady,

You have previously stated that you have wrongly been accused, by BASSA militants, of being involved in the Professional Cabin Crew Council. I have already, and will do so again, apologised that this happened to you. I would not wish the BASSA mentality on anybody.

However, it is untrue to say that I "rolled out the old safety of the organisers excuse". The PCCC have maintained that we will not give out our numbers, for obvious "business" reasons, to anyone. (I am sure our learned readers on this thread, can understand that!) We have not given them to BA. Nor to BASSA. Nor, as yet, to the Certification Office who register Trade Unions despite them being very interested in us.

If you want the information, you could help yourself (and others) by supporting and joining the PCCC. You choose not to. Fair enough. Hence, we choose not to give you the information. Why should we?

We are not afraid of BASSA; you are incorrect to state that we are. BASSA are afraid of us. They have spoofed our website, spoofed our email address, and now they have blatantly copied our logo in their latest "suspendee" brochure. Someone is running scared, but it sure ain't us!

We are reserving our forces, and our strength, for when it will be most effective. We are also preserving the status quo on board our aircraft, by remaining professional. You don't fly with strikers at LGW. We do. Can you imagine one PCCC "rep" on board a plane full of strikers? If you think this is just about being "left out downroute", you severely underestimate them.

It has been said so many times that this is an organisation - it is about the idea of doing things differently and doing things better for our community. It is not about the people who run it. If LGW wants to have their own union, that would be something for you all to decide. We have nothing but respect and admiration for our colleagues at Gatwick.

Jetsetlady, you seem like a level-headed person with the same views as us. We're not the enemy. Shouldn't we all focus on the one huge cancer in the side of this company that, if we do nothing, could cause us all to be without jobs?

HiFlyer,

Sadly, it seems I am not one of the learned readers so maybe you can help me out on the obvious "business" reasons. Or maybe one of the learned readers could enlighten me. As far as I'm aware, PCCC is not a "business" or anywhere near being a "business". If it is, it certainly shouldn't be advertising on PPrune! Anyway, that's all beside the point. I will reiterate. I did not want member names, numbers or anything approaching that. I merely asked how many LGW were involved at the top table. As someone who has spent years having my future decided by LHR crew, surely that is a reasonable question?

I'm really sorry but I think you are kidding yourselves somewhat. I think they probably were watching you closely to start with but I don't think they see you as a threat any longer. The time to stand up seems to have come and gone, I'm afraid. I'll be extremely pleased if I'm proved wrong, however. No doubt time will tell.

There you go again, proving my point that we need actual LGW representation. How dare you assume that you know what it's like to work at LGW! Yes, I have flown with strikers. No, it's not generally as militant as LHR but believe me, it's not all the hearts and flowers that some like to portray.


So which is it? One minute, you aren't scared of BASSA and all the secrecy is for "business" reasons, then the next you're worrying about being the only PCCC rep on board an aircraft full of strikers. You can't stay hidden forever and eventually that could well happen. What then? Surely, part of being a good rep will be knowing how to deal with it.

Anyway, work beckons so I'm off to attempt to make myself look glam. Well, as glam as it's possible to be at my age when surrounded by 20 yr olds! :{
I sense we will never agree on this point HiFlyer, so I wish you the best of luck and hope you will agree to disagree.

Jetset Lady,

Why are you taking such a negative approach about a small orginisation that is just trying to give a voice to those people who are not in Bassa.

No one is suggesting that you personally join but there are many crew based at LGW that have joined and also crew at LHR that have joined.

Many of us find it good place to go, to chat to like minded crew that are horrified at what Bassa are doing to our airline and employer.

As it grows, and it is gaining members every day, it will be able to have a voice but at the momment it is just in it's infantcy.

I don't blame those founder members for not wanting to come out with their names. You only need to look at how that WW CSD is being treated to realise why no one would want to do that right now.

Read my posts, Betty Girl. My negativity as you call it, is all explained fully in them. Or would you rather have another organisation of blind followers that never question anything? Now, much as I'd love to continue this debate, I really have to go to work!

If you want PCCC or any other organisation/Union to represent LGW, LHR or anyone else, the first thing you need is a strong leader or leaders....It would seem that the PCCC have neither. Even if you wished to keep the membership under wraps for the time being, the leaders should be out there and voicing opinion and strategy. Having members join a secret society is ridiculous....I doubt you can keep the membership secret for too long anyway. Without the leaders, at least, being out there and vocal there is no way to determine whether they are company stooges or indeed Professionals with some moral fibre. Joining just because you don't want any truck with BASSA makes no sense.......
I have been in the situation of a mass move from one TU to another for similar reasons. It's not easy, but, it definitely needs leadership.

Jetset Lady.
Well I think alot of anger is comming across and I am just not exactly sure I understand why, even after reading your posts.

Have a nice flight, hope it is to somewhere nice.

Call100.
This big mass move of yours, was it right in the middle of a bout of industrial action?

Anyway I have nothing to do with the PCCC leadership, I am just someone who has found membership very helpful to me and as a result I find it strange that people are having a go at the founder members.

They are just ordinary cabin crew that are fed up with what Bassa has been doing. Nothing more, nothing less.

They have set up a place where you can go for for advise if you are not part of Bassa and very helpful they are too.

I find it strange, that it is, people that don't actually want to be a member that are questioning things. Those of us that are members are more than happy with HiFlyer.

Dave3
I hope you read this thread, Dave, because your assumption that no-one knew that British Airtours was part of BA is not strictly true and I'm probably not the only one on these threads who does.
BEA Airtours was set up in 1969 by BEA and became British Airtours on the formation of BA in the 70s, when BA acquired British Caledonian in 1988 Airtours became Caledonian Airways.
I've already commented previously on BASSA's misuse of the Manchester tragedy for their own publicity but the wearing of yellow can also be interpreted as lacking in moral courage.

Call100

Thank you for your comments. Actually, there is no secret society. We are in fact "out there" voicing opinion and strategy. It may seem strange to the outside world, but ours is such a large community that names are, by and large, meaningless.

The majority of crew don't know who the long-serving BASSA/Amicus reps are. The majority of crew don't know who their manager is. Many crew don't even know who the Head of IFCE is. And 99% of the time, crew don't know the CSD, or any of the other crew that they are flying with. It is a sea of anonymity. Everyday working with different people that we don't know. It's how we work.

The PCCC could put our names out there tomorrow. Crew wouldn't know who we are, nor would they probably care. It wouldn't make a jot of difference.

It would be extremely helpful though if you could post details of your mass move from one TU to another and your involvement in it. Would you be willing to do that - or maybe you could pm me?

JetsetLady
The point is we don't disagree - we have the same passion and beliefs. So, please put that passion to good use and come and join us? Come and sit at the "top table" as you call it. You are obviously as passionate about this as us, and if the LGW membership want to "go it alone" (a breakaway union within a breakaway union :confused::)) then we will support that.

All we are is crew striving to rid ourselves of this monster that has grown out of control in our midst. We must all stand together to do it. I admit, the PCCC may not be getting it completely right.

But at least we're not doing nothing.:)

All very interesting, I'm sure. Is there any reason why that PCC debate isn't being done on the exclusive CC thread, instead of here on the SLF thread?

The US Cavalry used to wear yellow neckerchiefs in the days of the cowboys and Indians. John Wayne often sported one, even in black and white. The wearing of a yellow ribbon by wives, girlfriends and mistresses of US serving soldiers has long been a poignant reminder of their men who are far away and in danger. There's an obvious emotive connection between the yellow ribbon, the US Cavalry and the raising of Old Glory at Iwo Jima (Mount Surbachi), a parody of which is still the BASSA logo. It's remarkable that the Yanks and the TWU haven't woken up to this scatology and boycotted the employer of the perpetrators of such crass political symbolism.

May I ask re: the Star of David as it's been posted here and on the other thread - did anybody see this, was it really this symbol, and did the person speak about it or was merely pictured with it on? I can only hope this isn't true or it's not what it seems, and would really appreciate someone connected with BASSA explaining as I can't go over and ask on the CC forum.

Like other posters here, despite my current belief that for all their faults BA management are only conducting themselves in a manner that shareholders and many employees would expect during this difficult economic climate, I am open to having my mind changed on some issues if any reasoned debate points were put forward from BASSA supporters.

However, unless this is some ghastly misunderstanding - which I sincerely hope it is - it's upset and offended me deeply, as I'm sure it would many people. Despite my disagreement with the BASSA position, I hope this would be cleared up as a misunderstanding because I cannot believe someone would do this.

MPN11,
The reason it is being talked about here is because it was in reponse to a post that Entaxei made and he only posts here.

He was suggesting that LGW crew join the PCCC and that is the only reason it is being discussed here.

Hope that helps.

Chucinchow #1848
 

A muttering dead organism ;

I envisage a dark rotting mass with bubbles raising, which on bursting make noises similar to Tomatoes; impositions; pink gins; its not fair; come the revolutions; listen to me; listen to me; is anyone there; etc..etc..etc.........

The whole surrounded by linked bassa lanyards with warning notices 'This could happen to you!!! join an onion'

With apologies to shades of 'Monty Pythons Flying Circus' for those young enough to remember. :E

@ Betty girl ... fair point. Sorry, I get depressed reading the CC thread and not being able to respond [having been banned so many times, under so many user-names!!] I just find it all a bit like sticking pins in my eyeballs!

If I want to be depressed, I read the CC Thread.
If I want a good moan, I post here ... and FLY BA anyway! :cool:

Good luck to all of you ... I'll go and take my anti-Grumpy pills now. ;)

Jetset Lady:

Have you actually registered at the PCCC website and investigated what they might offer you, or are you happy just sitting back niggling at them? Do you have any interest in what possibly be more sensible representation, or do you think the current BASSA leadership are worthy of support?

All I see is you constantly criticising the PCCC, which puts you in the BASSA or moaners barrel.

Do you see a need for change, and if so, what are you actually doing about it?

Or are you happy with the status quo?

MPN11
 

Just for info, I no longer work in Aviation, so therefore am not eligible to post on the exclusive CC thread.

But I do have many years experience in aviation, computer industry, takeovers and dealing with unions etc., and I believe that we SLF have a range of experience applicable to a lot of the situations arising here.

I have been astounded at the vast amount of knowledge that has been displayed on here in the areas of Employee law, Industrial Relations and Industrial Actions, Unions and company law, to name but a few, which also means a lot of the SLF must be very good and of course at the top of their professions to afford the going rate for tickets.

At the end of the day, we have a vested interest in knowing what is happening, to make sure that we are able to take our families on holiday or continue to run our business.

I can understand your feeling that your working life and traumas should be kept private, but can only suggest that such details are not displayed on a public forum. Curiosity always wins. ;)

It wasn't aimed at you personally, so I don't understand your attitude. The point is that maybe if there was some leadership, and I mean a public one, then they would be taken more seriously and maybe more of the BASSA membership would move over.

HiFlyer14
I'll PM you.....

@ Entaxai ... Me? Working? Wash your mouth out with soap!! :eek:

I am not, nor ever have been, a BA employee.
CAA, NATS, UK Mil plc ... yes ;)
I have however spent all my working life in the aviation world ... starting at age 17. I will also admit to working at LHR in black wooden huts on the North Side in the 60's :cool:

I agree that PPRuNe contains a massive 'database' of experience ... my only point was that the "CC-Specific" Forum exists for the CC and not SLF. I just felt, at the time, that there was a wee bit of overspill.

Call100,
What attitude, the only part of my post directed at you was the question about whether your experience of a big move from one union to the other was during industrial action. How can that be an attitude?

The rest was just to make sure people did not think I spoke for the PCCC.
I just was saying that I support them and appreciate their help and how good it is to be able to communicate with other like minded crew. It was aimed at the crew that were moaning not you.

OK, It was just the way it was written and the way I read it....The answer to your question is no, not in a period of IA but in a period of conflict which decided IA or not.
I'm glad you are happy with PCCC. I await their public emergence...:)

Thanks Call100,

What's Next
 

We have now had the big meeting which apparently went exactly as predicted. Based on the physical constraints of the venue attendance was a maximum of + or- 750 and possibly less. Nothing has changed. The only thing that was interesting from what has been reported about the meeting is the proposal to tax each BASSA member an additional 5 lbs per month to subsidize commuters who have lost their ST. This would indicate to me that the loss of ST is causing problems for the BASSA leadership. BASSA leadership want a strike vote. United undoubtedly do not want a strike vote and have the sole authority to call for the vote. It is unclear to me who has the actual authority to set the strike dates and call the strike after a strike is authorized. BASSA seems to be a toothless dog at the moment reduced to only being able to threaten a strike in an attempt to reduce BA’s forward bookings. What are BASSA members now going to do. They have lost wages, lost ST, will not receive salary increases and have no leverage with BA. If members do something that subjects them to termination Mixed Fleet grows faster.

pcat60
 

It troubles me as a passenger that BASSA has an "attitude problem" that is completely incompatible with my expectations of the sort of person that a steward/stewardess ought to be.

I agree with nearly everything that pcat60 says._ It is an excellent analysis._ The only thing that I disagree with is
I think that BASSA is a ferocious vindictive dog which has been put on a lead - in fact two dog-leads - one the BA dog-lead and the other the Unite dog-lead._ In 2011 I predict that Unite will accept the Final Offer which will then improve the control that BA has over what can only be described as a cult.
The history of cults is very sad - however exceptionally a cult can reform itself (unfortunately I can find no examples of reformation)._ If BASSA can no longer bite BA or Unite then the emergence of PCCC will provide a most attractive target for BASSA.

notlangley
 

I think your post reference the cult mentality is spot on. Bassa have a central hard core group of extremists. I was in PATCO (US air traffic controllers union) when we went on strike in 1983. We were all made to believe that we had the moral high ground and that the government would cave at the chaos we would cause to the US airlines.

We believed what we were told because we wanted to believe what we were being told by the union. As you know it all went horribly wrong and the controllers that didn't go back to work in 48 hours were all dismissed. We still were told that we would win and believed it for a while.

When you are involved in something you feel passionately about you believe anything you are told that agrees with your position. I think that is where the hard core militants are right now.

I have been lucky enough to meet JSL and she is a very reasonable, balanced individual (also very clever) who cares passionately about BA and doing a great job.

I'm all for this! Take 5 lbs per month off them and in a year we might have a few less fatties on board!:p

Jesting aside, it's incorrect to say nothing happened at the union meeting as it appears a very significant development has only just filtered out. From another place.....

"Duncan said at meeting strikes ain't gonna work as Walsh has a huge volunteer army, not to mention our own scabs! The only thing we can target is forward bookings. "

That admission that the strike strategy is doomed is possibly the biggest step forward in some time, and it means that the power to defeat the strike now rest with the passengers! Book BA and the strategy fails! I might even suggest that as an idea to the advertising department!

None of which contradicts what I stated, nor answers my question, but I guess she's flying so it will just have to wait.

:ok:

May I ask re: the Star of David as it's been posted here and on the other thread - did anybody see this, was it really this symbol, and did the person speak about it or was merely pictured with it on? I can only hope this isn't true or it's not what it seems, and would really appreciate someone connected with BASSA explaining as I can't go over and ask on the CC forum.

In case anyone is any doubt about this the person interviewed clearly was wearing a yellow star of David with BASSA written in the middle. The Nazis made all jews wear a cloth, yellow star of David with the word Jude written in the middle.

I would presume that the person at the meeting was a crew member who had lost staff travel/disciplined and was making the statement 'I am being treated like the Jews were by WW (shown as Hitler in past) and Nazi BA management'

A question for the lawyers;

If DH takes any action that affects BA's business, is that unofficial industrial action. If so, can BA sue Unite for compensation. Does anyone with legal knowledge know the answer?

Dave