Very good post :ok:

Also reading the cc forum, it is a bit unbelievable, as to CC inteligence, I would guess that higher pay than those outwith BA would be related to a bit higher education and thought process

One states, How can BA afford to pay us doing nothing, whilst New Fleet has doubled and flying?

HELLO Err well being an ingnorant nerk myself I would guess, because you will not be there anymore being paid :confused:

Another has lost Staff Travel free but commutes 5500 miles a twelve hour flight before the start of shift, is this legal rest time CAA

How many multi lingual university grads would give their right arm for CC employment rather than burger flipping AND may even get a free flight home to see their loved ones

Having said that, Burger flipping is much more work than trolley pushing dishing out sarnies
Hells Bells BA Crew do not even have to go round flogging scratch cards every half hour

In the current finacial climate, I would tend to get my head down and work, thankfull that I was not on the end of a Job Centre queue awaiting my £64pw giro (oops sorry, at the end of a job centre queue for nothing the first six months PROVING I had looked for gainfull employment )

Whilst the mortgage protection scheme proves not worth the paper it is written on

Child care at £300 per week, is contractual, ie you can not just quit you are obliged to pay to the end of the year

Become unemployed and it is a right bloody destruction of your life, no home, but you can live on the half price sale of your original home until you are down to the last £3k and begin to get your £64pw job seekers allowance

Not really a problem as you join the 2.5 Million others, most immigrants find work picking potatoes in rural areas for up to £215 pre tax per 37hour week

IA this will be your outcome Check it out

Jack McH

The next ballot will result in an acceptance by those voting. This will allow Unite to exit 'because the members wish it'.
ST will be returned slowly once the glare of publicity has moved on to some other issue to upset the Daily Mail readership.
Hopefully BASSA will have some elections and inject some moderation into it's camp....(optimism shouldn't be sneared at!!)
Anyway, for what it's worth that's my prediction......:ouch::ouch:

There is talk on the other thread of "outsourcing to India". That's probably a bit far fetched, but I have had the pleasure of flying Jet Airways and their cabin crew were absolutely top notch, as was everything about the service on board.

Be careful what you wish for.....

:}

This does look like we are heading for a vote to accept BUT if they return ST - then no one will ever believe another word that WW says. I don't think he's that silly in terms of his career. He fashioned himself as the hard man.

When does WW move to his next job in the combined group holding company? This would give his successor the opportunity to make further movement on ST without affecting WW's reputation if BA so desired. Purely hypothetical supposition of course. ;)

bhx01's posts on the other board are an interesting read.

He/she has only posted four times but her opening post reads like a pr move from BASSA..."I've worked before but now I'm so sorry and I will strike this time" sort of stuff.
http://www.pprune.org/cabin-crew/418...ml#post5791261

In a later post she even states that she hopes the striking cabin crew can "forgive her".

Call me cynical but the timing is interesting.

Diplome
 

I think we all concur :ok:

http://www.pprune.org/5793955-post843.html

1st of January 2011.http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/sr...lies/smile.gif

ranger07:

:) Nice to know I'm not the only cynic.

addendum: And she/he is still pitching with a "gosh" and "gee whiz" approach.

Unfortunately the argument fails the logic test. He/she states regarding credibility and who is to be believed..

The MAJORITY of your fellow crew members are not striking...and just to be a tad pointed Liz Malone hasn't asked one of us if we would like coffee or tea in ages and Duncan Holley, who developed what sounds suspiciously like an allergy to actually being Cabin Crew, is no longer an employee of BA.

I agree that the Union look like they can duck out with (their version of) honour as the staff want it over. Also, they have a brand new Conservative govt to fight now, so lots more fun and strikes to be had there.

Bloomberg Report
 

Today on Bloomberg:

British Airways CEO Wages `War of Attrition' as Pay Vote Starts - Bloomberg

Worth a read

From the story linked above: -{On the ballot} - I've had the usual delivery of Unite/BASSA/Amicus crap through my letterbox this week that disagrees with that statement.

Re-writing History
 

One of the folk over on the CC thread is now trying to re-write history - implying that bassa did negotiate, and was at those meetings, in the negotiating room, (rather than being in the adjournment room and refusing to meet either BA or amicus).

Re-writing history is one of the favourite tactics of Socialist Worker, a rather nasty organisation who appear to have taken a role in this dispute. By repute, many of the BFC attendees were not striking BA CC but were sympathisers from Socialist Worker.
Run for some time by the millionaire Redgrave family and their close friends, if bassa are dealing with them, I feel sorry for their members.

I was in a dispute some time ago when SW tried to muscle in on the issue. Fortunately the TU members saw them coming and told them to Foxtrot Oscar.
No matter how bassa are perceived by the travelling public, allowing SW to become involved in any way will make it worse.

A short lull in the other forums has nw been ended by a strong showing of declared BASSA supporters and undeclared BASSA supporters.

The declared supporters are very selective in what they say and it is telling that when presented with facts they tend to ignore them completely, generally responding with more spin or unique versions of events. Some of their comments are more Nostradamus like.

What for me appears obvious is the increase in undeclared BASSA supporters, purporting to be rational CC that have now come to a decision to strike or support BASSA as a result of genuine consideration of the facts or some tale of horror or woe that has befallen them when they worked through the last IA period.. Fortunately for us they aren't quite clever enough to carry the pretence off and revert to BASSA tactics of ignoring facts and spewing forth versions that have been refuted over and over again by BA supporters over there.

My personal wishes are that BASSA do announce a NO vote and go for industrial action. Forcing BA to begin dismissals or to sideline the strikers altogether and fly 100% of long haul and short haul. I simply don't want to risk having any trip I have planned disrupted by BASSA supporters. If BASSA win any form of concessions in this dispute at all, BA may as well hand over the keys. Becuase, if they can't win this dispute in this financial climate with the level of support from the public and the rest of BA now they have no chance in the future.

The last paragraph of that Bloomberg story says it all:

I suspect there are more than a few BASSA members already thinking exactly that. Their actions have been utterly futile.

And still we wait to hear how many reps have actually lost ST or instead have dodged the bullet by sneaking into work or feigning illness!

Interesting comments from Mr. Walsh courtesy of Reuters:

Very good news for BA employees from all divisions.

BA's Walsh to guarantee flights if new strike | Reuters

Very interesting snippet from your link there Diplome:

(emphasis added)

I wonder if he's anticipating further reducing costs by (for instance) sacking staff who participate in future illegal strikes?

Interesting to read on the BACityFlyer website that they are looking to recruit cabin crew at LCY on a starting salary of £11083 pa plus £1750 London Weighting plus £2.20 per hour flight pay.
By my calculations this equates to a higher overall starting salary than that of New Fleet.
Seems like a better deal to me for flying only SH or am I missing something?

AO
 

I agree entirely with your sentiments, but I suspect you've got the wrong union :uhoh:

Wiggy,
yup. Mea culpa. What a daft error. Not even worth a Jet Blast comment, it was so bad. Thanks for pointing it out. I've changed it.

Mariner9:

Interesting. The more I read regarding BASSA's continued performance the more I am pleased that BA has afforded non-member crew to make their own agreement with BA.

I believe there is high likelihood that BA has simply had enough of BASSA's unprofessionalism and are going to continue on and make them as irrelevant as possible which may be for the best for both BA and crew.

Redcap49:

Most individuals are quoting Mixed Fleet with the base and hourly but wasn't there also something about the ability for performance bonuses or am I simply not recalling the offer correctly?

Wiggy:

lol. Somehow the idea of Balpa members and its leadership cavorting with members of the Socialist Workers Union the way that the BASSA militants do seems impossible. Definitely a typo that made me smile.

Mariner9 - or it could just be that as the company reverts to growth mode, the savings arising from a lower cost base will alos grow, in absolute terms.

Johno,
Yes, bassa and their "sympathisers" have obviously decided to put some effort in to that new spin, (aswell as putting effort in to re-writing history)

Diplome

Cant find anything other than basic salary plus hourly flight pay for New Fleet.There is a statement on the Mixed Fleet recruitment page which states that crew will be '' recognised and rewarded for the outstanding performance you demonstrate''.However,that doesn't necessarily mean financially.

Diplome, Wiggy,

At the risk of sounding a bit like an anorak, Chris Darke, who was the Gen Sec of Balpa from about 1992 did know some of the SW crowd, not through personal allegiance, but through his previous role at ASTMS (OK, later called MSF).
So Balpa are as capable as bassa at "being associated with" Socialist Worker.
They used to meet at a charming Westminster venue, which no longer exists, called the Victoria Club.

"Creative External Redeployment", anyone?

Ancient Observer:

With all due respect, I don't expect to see groups of flight deck crew partying with the Socialist Worker crowd like those at Bedfont.

Both for reasons of personal selection and because its members understand just how damaging that is to public perceptions.

I've been giving some thought to your past comments regarding BA's difficulty with managers. Will be interesting, now that BA has shown strength regarding dealing with BASSA, if they continue with changing the mindset and performance of its managers.

I'm rather optomistic at the moment...not ecstatic, but optomistic.

KISS
 

Having read 't'other thread,' why is the pay structure all so complicated? It must take a battalion of accounts staff to sort it all out each month. Why cannot they have:
Salary according to position and seniority
Overtime
Allowances paid in cash at HOTAC check-in
Any anomalies

Er...that's it. Seemed to work in my old company.

cheaper
 

neptunus


Things move on .......something the striking crew would do well to appreciate too

``Allowances paid in cash at HOTAC check-in``

It is cheaper (to BA) to have allowances paid and distributed by card anD dare i say it better for the crew too

It's a hangover from the historical approach of throwing money at crew to make BASSA go away. I'm sure hundreds of thousands could be saved in administration costs by replacing the current system of box payments, destination payments, one down payments etc with a simple hourly rate. It would mean crew would have more consistent earnings every month. You could say it is a "win win". But it would mean that those in the know would no longer be able to play the system.

Is it my imagination or is this dispute just withering on the vine? Discussions on both this & the CC thread seem to be drifting without any direction. I guess that this means that Mr Walsh has won, just like the Spanish!:ok:

Baggersup
 

I totally agree. There is a hard core of CC, not all members of Bassa, who are totally self absorbed in protecting their allowances & outdated T&Cs.:ugh: I guess that this self absorbed navel gazing is a hangover from the many years of weak management at BA.
However, I still believe that the majority now realise that the game's up & they have to accept the latest offer & get on with their lives. I sincerely hope that I won't be disappointed.

Baggersup
 

Willie Walsh had previously stated that in the event of further IA he would be operating 100% of his long haul routes. In a report from Reuters yesterday he is now stating 100% of ALL services will operate. I don't know if this is sufficient enough for you to readvise your friends as you seemed reluctant to turn them away from BA in the first place.

I think I may actually have some sympathy for BASSAs claim that BA management are the ones destryoing the airline. Just brought a Biz class ticket to Toronto and they want...wait for it........another £120!!!!! to choose my seat at time of booking - who on earth came up with that figure to charge and for a customer who just paid several thousand for a ticket - utter madness.

@manintheback

And why do you think BA are saying they have to reduce costs?

Just a normal everyday occurrence on nearly all airlines these days. Those not doing it will be doing so soon. Don't Virgin charge for a booked seat? I think you'll find they do.

maninthe back
 

That's fairly common practice these days. You need to be silver or gold to avoid the fee. Alternatively, why bother on such a short route. There'll be plenty of choice 24 hours before departure.

At least the way the strike is crumbling you can sleep safe in the knowledge that the flights will operate.:ok:

Agree. They also have much better ways off narking off their Gold and Silver Pax. They do it very well.

ExXBYou get what you pay for and you have to credit BA, they give a better class of narking off - it's Upper Class narking. :}

Of course the other way of looking at is if BASSA hadn't been quite so intransigent BA's management might not have been looking to make money by charging passengers for services they previously provided free.

Also I'm sure that I heard this is quite a successful revenue stream for BA, they recently put the prices up.

PAXboy:

THAT comment nearly caused a fine mixture of Vodka and Tonic to shower my keyboard. :)

There is a statement on the main CC board that gives me shivers as being too close to what Ms. Malone was advocating in a recent vote (which caused a reballoting). BA does not need or, I hope, want to play this game.

http://www.pprune.org/cabin-crew/418...f-only-49.html