BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions
 

Thanks, TS. ;)

"Never in the field of IA have so many been misled and/or deceived by so few"? :cool:

Tragic, ill-founded, unnecessary, inappropriate, mishandled - that's what I gather from reading the CC thread on PPRuNe on a daily basis.

Support by CC for the strike is, of course, nowhere near 100%. Something like 50% of the BA CC aren't members of BASSA anyway, as I understand it. So in reality maybe 40% of the CC workforce actually voted for the strike ... without apparently understanding the issues [info from one side only], and it seems with the objective of "sending a message to BA".

I have massive sympathy for the great majority who are caught up in this Union-engineered power struggle.

It is fair to say that, sitting on the sidelines, full extent of what is occuring, that we have seen publicly, is not the full story on any side of the dispute. (and there are not just two sides within BA).

Fingers Crossed
 

I have a cancelled and rebooked flight to GVA on Sat morning. I'd be happy to sit on the floor or bring my own chair, as long as I (and my luggage) get there. It will be aboard a Jet2 wet lease if all goes to plan.
I have no idea about what scenes I will encounter at LHR, which I'm not looking forward to TBH.
I'm hoping make a return trip on the 27th :uhoh:

As you have just seen from my other post, I fear for premium pax like myself the damage to BA is already done.

What would it take for me to come back to BA? I honestly don't know, I am not seeing the reason why, the seats in club world and first are wonderful, but then so are they on Cathay/Virgin/Emirates/Qantas/Ethiad.

It's not all about the CC, if I cant get home to my family, it causes me grief and stress, if I cant get to meetings arranged with my customers it causes me money, grief and stress.

Yes I understand that the CC have been in a state of anguish, but can they honestly say strike action that drives away the customers who keep them employed like this is the way to solve the problems?

I don't want to desert the CC that are decent people and are coming to work to make it possible for me to get the 3 flights on the strike days that I have.

I cant just move the dates, I have client engagements that have been arranged for many months, if I don't come to the customer, the missed meetings cost a lot of money. This includes the cost of the flights/hotels plus about £12500 in terms of day rate. Why should my company suffer?

I think we laugh about strange industrial practises in the old legacy airlines like Alitalia (before the collapse), but some of the standard practises at BA that I have read through the main CC thread are unbelievable! 2 overnights on a diversion etc. I'm astounded that in 2010 big companies have crap like this to put up with.

On a personal note, since Christmas I have booked me and my team on 28 flights to Dubai and Newark with Swiss. We used to use BA. We will most likely never go back. I will only step back aboard to use up the 300K airmiles I have.

Its a great pity. I feel for the crew, they are on the whole a great bunch, but now simply cannon fodder in a Len McLuskey power play.

I am thinking of donating my 500,000 BA miles to charity, does anyone know if this is possible?

Wow! So many Daily Mail readers in one thread........Amazing:ugh:

jethrobee

Why waste your hard-earned miles? They can be redeemed on any of the One World partner airlines. They are not on strike!

jethrobee I know that VS do this. A quick look at BA EC only referred to their cash collections of small coin. There are charities that collect FFMs to use for children that are recovering from sever illness, or may have a terminal condition. They take them to places like Disneyworld. So consider search for the charities.

As an investor with many shares and stocks in many companys, I am very pleased that many company employees will not be flying BA in the future in business class.
I do deplore the habit of business class travel for company staff when I as a shareholder am paying part of their salary and travel expenses. In the rare occasion when a company pays a decent dividend, the staff memeber is well enough rewarded by having his pension share scheme increase in value. When the company does not perform so well or pay the dividend then why the heaven and the other place, should the staff member travel in business class. All it does is to clutter up useful shopping or toilet space at airports with 'Executive' lounges and delay flights while people for whose tickets I am forced to pay exercise their delusions of self importance by necessitating three late gate calls.

A strike anywhere in this day and age (in the western democratic world) is about an individual who is power hungry leading many like sheep along for the slaughter. In large open to public companies like BA it is hard to believe that anyone is being made to work over and above what the law has provided for. If you don't like the law vote your government out and get another in that will change the laws.

One needs to only browse through all the threads on this site to see how an overwhelming number of topics cover poor customer service on BA over the past years. Maybe some introspection is needed by all to see who has called the strike. It however is necessary as it will purge BA of some of these sheep and wolves that have done it a great dis service over the years and have led many loyalists to move elsewhere.

It will be sad to see many caught in the crossfire, but such is the nature of Unions these days. The Lawyers and the leaders will drive away in the Porsche's and Ferrari's to another industry to create havoc, the sheep will be slaughtered, and the collateral damage will last a while and trickle into the other airlines and cause a supply demand situation which will lead to lower wages.

If you don't like your job quit.... if there are no more jobs out there then thank your lucky stars you have one. Don't bite the hand that feeds you!!! :{

You deplore employees traveling in Business Class??? Try and fly 24 hours to Sydney and then get off the plane at 6.30am and be in the office for 9am to do a productive day's at work on site with a client that earns your company £1250 minimum!

Just because people fly business class it doesn't mean that they are wasting the companies money, am I paid for giving up weekends to sit on planes? No, and I paid weekends to be away from my family? No.

BTW I am looking at one of the childrens charities to see if they would be interested in my miles, 500k BA miles is a fair few kids/helpers to the USA.

-oh and no I dont read the daily mail!!!

Like others on the thread, I no longer fly BA on business, as the company is too unreliable and no longer fit for purpose.

Having said that, I have just booked my family on a long haul at Christmas, in WT+ which I regard as being a good vfm product.

For the sake of balance

1. A lot of BA people are decent hard working folks
2. The CC union has a lot to answer for, as do the members who voted for IA
3. The company managament over the past 10-15 years also have a lot to answer for

As a frequent traveller, it would be good for BA to be a strong player in the market, but I fear we may be past the tipping point.

The board has broken the trust of too many premium users (companies and individuals) by a combination of cynical cost cutting, ineffective IR and generally failing to provide differentiated service in times of disruption.

What is left is a second rate carrier.

Try "Wish Upon a Star". One of their events is to fly children with a life-threatening illness or serious handicap and carers to Laapland at Christmas. If there was a suitable flight, who knows, you migt be able to sponsor an entre flight for that.

When You Wish Upon A Star - Dream Making For Sick Children

I do not see that BA management have been particularly effective over the years. Look at the c*ck up a few years ago with EWS - Engineers Want Spares. Look at the cost cutting - no hot towels in Club Europe. A little thing, and I doubt it saved much money. OTOH, I have found BA CC and ground staff far better than any of the other airlines I've regularly flown, with the possible exception of Qantas, who were OK, and Baboo, who are up to BA standard. AA have gone downhill over the last few years: they'd be LOCOS if the fares were lower.

I'm not convinced that either side in this dispute come out with clean hands. Now we hear about CSD and the like on on £40 -50- 60 a year. I wonder how many managers there are at BA on more than £60k plus perks? And what they do to earn it.

Years ago, there was an article in the Engineer magazine with an accountant who went into failing companies to turn them round. He said that if you had to fire people, you should start at the top. Firstly, that's where you save the most money per head disposed off, and secondly, these were the people whose mismanagement got the company into a mess in the first place....

There's also childflight, which is based at Manchester Airport.

Childflight :ok:

I strongly believe that managers get the staff attitudes they deserve. In a small way I've seen it close at hand, when a department had a manager who built his staff into a silo mentality, with the result that things took twice as long as necessary, and most dealings with them were a hassle. After a couple of years a new manager took over, and within weeks attitudes changed. As a result the department were miles easier to deal with, and the work they were delivering also increased in quality. All because the message from above changed.

A lot of similarities with the Gordon Bethune turnround of Continental - wonder if any BA managers have read his book? I'm sure it wasn't all milk and honey at CO, but it was certainly better than it used to be.

Then go a day earlier. Even a nights hotel won't bust the bank comparing the difference between business and economy fares. When my old company went through the cost cutting regime, we did this and it wasn't unpleasant at all.

They've certainly not been effective at reforming some of the 'spanish practices' that still exist within BA's cabin crew. Previously, they refused to stand up to BASSA. Now they've got a CEO who's prepared to take them on.


It's a subjective thing, of course, but I reckon most of the major Far East carriers, and several Mid East beat BA hands down. But perhaps that's missing the point. BA's cabin crew costs are twice as high as their nearest UK competitor. Are BA CC so outstanding that the company can afford this?

EvanelpusIt's the old, old, old equation of time or money. If your time is cheap, you can take an early and sleep nice-nice in the hotel. If your time is expensive, you sleep as best you can on the plane.

(I've recounted this before) Working for a client in HKG in the 90s. LHR-SFO two days biz for them. SFO-HKG arrive 18:00 and straight to bed. Arrived office Thursday morning knowing that the Friday was the BIG day with the three finalists in the Tender doing their presentations on a critical communications project. I was the lead consultant. So I had a day to catch up.

No. I was told the presentations had been brought forward to save a day. They had made me do both long hauls in Y as they would not pay more (PE did not exist). Result? I fell asleep during the presentations.

Please do not assume that the solution that is good for you is good for us. Most frequents that I know do also (as was said) leave on Sunday evening or only get back on a Saturday and miss family events. I'm glad I don't do it any more.

Besides, if the shareholders knew how much money their companies were pi$$ing down the drain on REALLY unimportant stuff - you would have the CEO sacked on the spot.
:*

You have a meeting on Friday morning that you can't miss, so youi can't stay overnight. On Thursday, you're somewhere in Europe. The last flight is around 1930: your meeting finishes late, so you have no time at the airport. You're diabetic so you MUST have a meal. Not much alternative to Business Class is there?

Since company profits don't affect my pension, and don't affect my pay rise (as I haven't had one for five years), and I do 40% more than my contracted hours, many of them in the air, then why shouldn't I get that bit of luxury - and the meal.

The other problem with going a day early and coming back a day later is that strange as it may seem, I do like to see my wife on occasion. For those with children, that's even more pressing. With the amount of travelling on business my wife does,it's not often we get even a full weekend together

Bad industrial relations starts at the top, not at the bottom, with the proviso that unions with a political agenda, such as Unite, can and do deliberately make a deteriorating situation 1,000 times worse.

The real blame lies fairly and squarely with BA's dreadful, lazy, overpaid, over-manned and incompetent middle and senior management. Time-serving wasters, most of them, up to and including the Executive and non-Executive Directors.

But those staff who have voted for a strike have to share the blame for allowing themselves to be led by the nose into doing that. I cannot think of any high-profile, large-scale strike since 1970 that has achieved a long-term sustained improvement in the strikers' pay and conditions.

The notion that you can improve your lot by pushing an employer to the brink of bankruptcy, which in BA's case the threat of strike rather than a actual withdrawal of labour has achieved already, is one of the enduring fantasies of the union movement. It might work in the public sector, because there is no financial imperative, and unions know that sooner or later the employer will agree to spend more tax-payers' funds to satisfy their demands. But private sector employers can and do fail, putting the entire workforce on the dole. BA is not too big or important for that to happen.

The words "turkeys" and "Christmas" come to mind whenever I see scenes of jubilation after a strike vote.

I feel immensely sympathetic with those staff whose livelihoods are threatened by the hard core who, knowingly or not, are striking for a political objective set by Mr Harriet Harman and his cronies. God knows what that is, but I don't.

The problem with traveling the night before is that invariably I will be somewhere else or its the weekend.... If it is somewhere else the customers who are paying large money for my time get upset when I walk offsite at 3pm to catch a plane!

I work exceptionally long hours, get rewarded well for it, however, I personally wont fly down the back of the plane for anything more than 6 hours if I am expected to get off the flight and go straight to work.

My time vs money equation is fairly simple, I fly economy to Oz, its going to cost about 800 pounds vs a 2500-3100 business class fare.

A day of my time makes the company about 1250 so technically I fly economy I need 2 days to recover, this ends up costing the company money. Plus goodwill.

I actually do support the cabin crew. I fully understand the frustration any passenger affected by this strike feels, however the notion that having a career in customer service prevents you from withdrawing your labour if you genuinely believe that your livelihood is under threat doesn't work. The company can always approach negotiations without any real intention or desire to negotiate if they can stand back and milk the public outcry.

Although the cabin crew should have made every effort over the last few years to be the best and not milk the job and lower standards. If you're the best then you have an argument that the public will understand. If your average or not as good as your competitors then you suffer.

I believe that the union has been tactically out maneuvered on almost every front. Why this has happened I can't comment upon. I do know that the many many many of the CC genuinely fear that they will eventually have to leave the industry as the airlines replace crew with cheaper replacements. These newer crew will nearly all be younger than 25 quite happy to earn around the minimum wage and be compulsory made to work 20 hours a week more than any ground based job of 37.5 hours. Remember that labour laws don't apply for aircrew. Instead they can be made to operate to CAP 371. Have a look at the CAA web site and find it in publications. You won't find any requirement for a rest break in a 14 hour day anywhere.

Increasingly this is how airlines are operating their crew. Many BA CC have migrated there from other UK carriers. I would even go so far as to say it's the majority. They left airlines where a long term career felt unattainable and BA offered a career that allowed them to fly and have a house, family etc. Not all crew can or want to progress through the ranks of a smaller carrier where a life that most aspire (anyone, not just crew) is achievable.

I fear that the battle is already lost.

6

Of course labour law applies to aircrew (though I will concede that the high court didn't choose to think that way last time around).

Employees should be allowed to strike, and there was an overwhelming vote to do so, which means the employees should have protection.

What is different about BA is they have an effective monopoly on a very important airport for UK PLC. This monopoly was granted back in the days when airlines were regulated and is basically a gift from the taxpayers and all they have done is waste it.

So let them strike, but they should lose any LHR slots they don't use, permanently. Let them fly out of Gatwick or anywhere else who wants them. Plenty of decent airlines around will fill their place and that has to be good for the passenger.

Scumbag...disagree
 

I disagree strongly with your rather nasty, and frankly silly final comments

"plenty of decent airlines...."


but particularly..
Employees of BA

What about the thousands of decent , hard working employees at BA, who appreciate they have a decent job , and in very difficult times, accept that we all have to make sacrifices.
I certainly have had to, and so have many other people.
and who are these "plenty of decent airlines ...."??

Who?
Virgin?
Ryanair ?

Both of whom pay their own cabin crew around half what BA pay.
Right...BA goes and CC they will have plenty of opportunities for jobs then , at half what they earn now!

As for the customer..me/us!

Sorry BA is may be a half decent airline, but they knock spots off
Virgin and most other carriers

Your views seem somewhat unrealistic
Some carriers may be better but they are not UK based.

and there is nobody better than BA waiting in the wings.. except perhaps for BA mark II

I hardly think my comments were 'nasty', a very strong word, have more respect for your paying customers.

They would be missed by very few outside of the airline industry.

Why?
 

Fear about something that MAY happen, is no valid reason to go on strike. Cheaper crew may have been brought in through VR and retirement, I don't know and I imagine they didn't either, but of course that may have changed now in the light of a strike. Also it wasn't Mr Walsh who talked about a pay cut, that was BASSA, WW said a pay freeze....very different! As the strike is now due to start, I hope the people rostering the longhaul flights tonight are only using non-union and volunteer crew, otherwise come midnight it could get rather nasty!:ugh:

Scumbag
Nasty,. "well "let them strike "!! is non too pleasant
esp for the thousands of paying customers ( including possibly me) who may suffer as a result.


as for your further comment.

"have more respect for your paying customers"

I AM A PAYING CUSTOMER..

I dont work for BA, never have.
But, as a customer, I can tell the difference between an airline that strives for quality, albeit failing in many areas, and one that offers a cheap service using cheap labour (CC)

I am at a loss as to which "decent airlines" to who might be able to fill their place and offer a quality global network.

Anyone UK people with spare miles might consider Holidays4Heroes

At the moment just a non-profit, but about to become a Registered UK Charity. Miles could be VERY useful. ;)

Surely an oxymoron?

I do agree that the BA of 10 years ago was a decent airline, but the BA of 2010 is not.

That, however is rather different than wishing for 40,000 people to lose their jobs.

However, if the management of the company and the employees don't get their act together, this will be the final outcome, not necessarily this year or next, but sometime.

I fly with airlines who strive for quality and deliver it.

At the moment, for short haul, that includes

Air Arabia (lower grade, but fit for purpose)
Air Malta (still 2 x hot towels and always had my 1st choice of hot meal)
Austrian Airlines
Egyptair Express (but not the mainline)
easyJet (lower grade, but fit for purpose)
Lufthansa
Swiss

For long haul

LH/LX
Jet Airways

Well thats obviously not what anybody wants but you have to look at the bigger picture.

What we passengers should want above all else is a marketplace and if LHR was opened up to effective competition then there would be other airlines who would fill their place. Currently we have a basket case locking up 40% of LHR slots. Other airlines are effectively being kept out of there when they might want to operate from there and provide a far better service than the current dysfunctional lot. That would generate jobs too. What about the other airline's employees?? It's also a very reasonable assumption that these new airlines would be more efficient than BA and that would generate additional demand which would provide employment, not necessarily based at LHR either.

@ Scumbag - please elaborate on the "basket case" and others being "more efficient"? The only flight failure I ever had was a FlyBE technical out of SOU. Never EVER had one with BA.

BA has technical and flexibility capabilities that most airlines would only ever dream of. What's your choice of 'replacement carrier' for BA's European and World-wide and Domestic services? Come on, mate, get real. ;)

The fact that BA sometimes doesn't deliver the glossy product on 'some routes' isn't a case for binning the whole thing. All my experiences over the years with BA have been excellent - Domestic and European.

I've been just a little bit pi66ed with the BA LH service from LHR. Now - remind me who are the major whingers and whiners in the current IA? Oh - the LHR crews [or at least the CSDs], the ones that won't accept what LGW crews have been doing for 5 years? .... I'd better stop there, I think.

RADENG
 

+1
:ok:

My best of luck to all BA employees
Ulxima

Silly question
 

If all the BA CC resigned and withdrew their pension pot (as they are entitled to do) could BA cover the cash outlay it would have to make?

If a lot more BA staff did the same, (or took the money out after being made redundant) you could envisage severe financial hardship for BA seeing how much the pension fund is in the red.

Sunday 21 March
 

We're booked on 2166 TPA-LGW on Sunday evening. We're looking forward to thanking the loyal CC members for getting us home from this hell of warm sunshine & blue skies.

Roll on Gatwick's rain on Monday morning & the smiling faces of the lonely pickets, or will they all be at LHR?

I'm with Evan on this. My international is down to zero now, all domestic but (presuming your travel department isn't tightass) you need to be in top form for your negotiations, etc. If you need to justify it, consider scheduling a short pre-meeting the day before. Go in for a few hours and then go back to your hotel and prepare for the next day.

Any company that sends employees across several time zones, in economy class, then expects them to go to work quickly and be effective is delusional and asinine.

If it doesn't justify either 48 hours of rest in country or business class travel, then it can be done by web meeting or conference call.

I try to do as much via these methods as possible and save the travel for the things were 1-2-1 is vital.

I have flown overnight in J, then gone to work the next day after 4 hours sleep - it can be done, but it is not optimum; even after J class, some recovery time is wise.

How did SWISS and SABENA
 

Rise from the ashes of bankrupt airlines?