How do we feel about the term SLF?
 

As you might expect there is a discssuion on the Cabin Crew forum about BA Industrial Relations. Two posts caught my eye and I'd be interested to hear peoples reactions.
The first from Entaxei (post no 263 on the thread) who indicates he is a passenger reads:
Cheers Entaxei (Pax).
Post 268 is from flapsforty (a moderator) reads:
I've always accepted that Cabin Crew call us Self Loading Freight on the basis that flapsforty indicates " It´s a term of endearment.". But that final comment does make me wonder.
Without actually saying it I get the impression that terms like "Trolly Dolly" are accepted by crew in the same way that we accept SLF except that crew are always careful to point out that their main raison d'etre is our safety.
Given the complaints we see on here about BA service I do wonder if flapsforty complains just a little to much and Entaxei has a point.

Hartington

If you look at the BA cabin crew dispute, where a large majority of lemmings voted to empower their union to strike for 12 days at Xmas and are now voting again, against a grim economic background and few, if any cabin crew jobs going elsewhere, the impression one gets is that many may not have a lot between the ears.

(Not all by any means, some BA cabin cew, such as Jetset Lady who posts here are very bright.)

However, if the majority are not over endowed with grey matter, then this might explain this 'term of endearment', since it is not overbright to use negative metaphors IMHO.

I always refer the clients in our business as 'clients', as that is the respectful term. They also pay the fees that fund my salary, a fact I never forget. They may be pains at time, but they paid for my house, my cars, my kids education etc.

My belief is that the names you call people do unconsciously influence one's feelings and behaviours towards them.

So Entaxei may have a point.

Having said that, I haven't experienced the dire airborne service that some report, in fact it is normally okay to good with BA; The ground 'experience' is my bete noir.

So long as there are those of us who are willing from time to time to fly on Ryanair & the other Loco's, whose point to point service is a quick turnround freight service, we are exactly that.

We are Self Loading Freight- deal with it.

What the airlines really need is SLB - Self Loading Baggage.:ok:

Contemporary Business Culture
 

A banker once said to me "If we could get rid of the customers we could run the operations without costs..it would be soo easy"

I heard a "skipper" once ask operations for another steward for his flight..."Ya want a snack bash kid?" came the reply..."er kinda yeah"

Now it seems to me that something has been lost here. I can see the day when an outfit like Ryanair sticks a barcode across your forehead at the check in...

Basically, as long as it is not obscene, I'm not bothered what I get called!

This question is raised from time to time and usually means an interesting discussion (search for threads yourself)

Bear in mind, though, that SLF is a non-gender term, whereas Trolly Dollies is gender related ( though most female cc I know prefer hosties), so what term would you use for male cabin crew?

In reality I can't help but feel that there are more important things in life than arguing over the use of long established terms!!

I have heard pilots use the expression 'plate layers.'

Pretty disrespectful if you ask me.

What's wrong with 'cabin crew', for that's exactly what they are.

As for Flapsforty's comment - she has a point about who posts on the individual forums, particularly when the majority of the post was nothing to do with the thread subject!

Don't forget that the post could have just been deleted!

On the previous Chapter of the CC Thread, I ended up being banned for a few days for referring to a member of CC as a "Trolly Dolly". I will admit that I used the phrase in the midst of a heated discussion, but always understood that was one of many numerous similar phrases that have been in circulation for decades.

They include ...
Military Fast-Jet Navigator = Talking Ballast
Military ATC = The Flying Prevention Branch
Passengers [Mil AND Civ] = Self Loading Freight
Cabin Crew = [The T word]
........... and many, many more.

Personally I find Self-Loading Freight a bit derogatory, but I've been called that for so long I've become largely immune to it. Industry [and military] vernacular it may be, but I have never experienced it being used as a 'term of endearment'. The same broadly applies to the other terms cited above.

Clearly f40 has a more sensitive view when it comes to the equivalent 'term of endearment' for CC, and indeed seeing any non-CC posting on that thread, which is why I no longer risk trying to post in her fiefdom. No problem, her train-set, and that's a high-presure environment for a lot of CC on both sides of the argument. Perhaps we shouldn't have taken such a direct interest.

Does that 'deprecating' or 'endearing' SLF term affect passenger service? On the surface, I doubt it. On a more profound level, given what CC have to contend with on a daily basis from some of their passengers, it may. Whether it's a disruptive oaf in WT, or an arrogant oaf in F/J, or a full aircraft on a bad day to a lousy destination, I suspect we are a corporate pain in the rear. Yes, we pay their wages, and perhaps some of us expect too much from them. But reliable delivery of the advertised product would be nice.

[PS ... I believe this subject has been done to death on PPRuNe often in the past. Or so I was told.]

It's probably fair to say that the term SLF is rarely, if ever, used by CC directly to a passenger or in their earshot. I suspect that the opposite Trolly Dolly etc. is often used by some passengers directly to crew.

We call them Trolly Dollies, surely? (But, of course, never to their face). :)

Weary Sigh...

This subject comes up periodically, so I'll try and resurrect the usual answer.

Long ago, back in the days... PPRuNe was a pilots only forum discussing pilot type stuff. Some pilots used the term SLF for passengers, especially those with a military background, as used to be the norm: Given that many of them have no interface whatsoever with passengers, beyond an en-route PA announcement, this is at least understandable - whether you approve or not is another matter.

As PPRuNe expanded and the number of forums increased, the SLF name stuck to this forum. For the record, in 33 years in the industry, 30 of which are as crew, I have never heard a single British cabin crew member refer to passengers as SLF - ever. The only exception is here on PPRuNe where it is occasionally used, sometimes by those claiming to be Cabin Crew, and often in an attempt to comply with perceived normal practise.

Many industries have phrases that are considered acceptable for use within a peer group, but not by outsiders - Medicine springs to mind. Another example might be the word that would be considered highly racially offensive if used by a white person, but is in common and routine usage amongst African-Americans when referring to each other - supposedly to indicate irony, although I have my doubts. The point I'm making is that language is powerful, and its' use requires care and compliance with the rules to avoid giving offence. Here on PPRuNe (originally a Pilots' Forum) the peer group viewed the term as being acceptable.

You may of course, if you wish, choose to take offence, or to read into the phrase something that in my experience simply doesn't exist: This forum is for passengers to offer their opinions, so you are most welcome to continue in this vein if you wish. I certainly won't prevent you, but I will go on the record at this point to say that in my view this is neither an issue, nor a symptom of an issue.

P.S.
The BA thread(s) in the CC forum have been by no small measure the most frustrating, irritating, depressing, tedious, thankless and time-consuming work that the CC Forum mods have had to deal with in some considerable time: I'm also a mod in there, along with my esteemed colleague Flaps (who for the record is an immensely skilled and experienced Cabin Crew member). The BA thread has experienced many hijack attempts, not only by extremists on all sides, but also by other parties, including passengers, all of whom have been anxious to display their various prejudices and agendas, or simply to demonstrate their own titanic cleverness and ego: While this may be fascinating for those who are in love with the sound of their own keyboards, it has usually contributed little or nothing to the debate, except to raise the global temperature and thereby promote further irrelevant posts.

I would be grateful if this forum would not be used as a receptacle for those opinions that were deleted by mods various (including myself) on the BA thread in CC.

Thanks

Tightslot

Re part 2 of your post, you have my sympathy.

Re part 1, I think you have perhaps missed Hartington's point.

You could re-read his last sentence and then reference the article below

What's in a Name: Our Only Label Should Be Our Name: Avoiding the Stereotypes

Labelling can and does create negative stereotypes, which influences the way the labeller thinks about those labelled and then deals with them.

In recent times, on here on other travel related fora, a number of people have complained about the surly attitude of some BA cabin crew.

The OP is trying to make a link between this attitude and th elabelling of passengers.

If you ask me, any such behaviour it is more probabl due to demotivation and anti management ire, but nonethless it is interesting to think about how labelling stereotypes or demonises.

After all, 'scab' is a powerful word, isn't it?

The term in our office is "Self Loathing Freight". The reduction in business class travel may have something to do with it.:}

I arrived into Airline flying in 1982, and the aged RAF gentleman around me would use this phrase. A phrase I had never heard before. In the intervening years from Dan Air, Britannia, and BA I have only ever heard passengers referred to as SLF by pilots. And then only rarely by military pilots. Indeed a passenger is just that in the military. They are not paying customers. They are exactly what it says. Self Loading Freight.

I have never ever heard a Cabin Crew member in any airline that I have worked for call passengers SLF.

I think it is worth remembering that this is historically a Pilots forum. And an old one at that. Unusually for the internet it carries with it history.

I am Self Loading Freight.........................so what?

Having been crew for 7 years (not as long as a lot of you guys I know) I have never heard passengers been called SLF except for on PPRuNe. The problem with a public forum for people within a specific industry is that anyone can view it and see the slang terms should they actually be used anywhere. Most industries have different slang terms for their customers, rightly or wrongly however they do exist and always will, but anyone under the impression that we call all out passengers SLF, take a deep intake of breath and relax. We prefer to just call you passengers. Non-gender specific and simple. Whether or not that is superseded by another word though...... :ok:

I certainly don't find the term offensive, I find it amusing and assume it is used with affection (or even affectionate exasperation, on occasions!) Certainly when used by someone like Flapsforty it would clearly be affectionate, as the fact that she has the utmost respect for/empathy with her passengers shines through any of her posts in which she describes her working day.

"Trolly Dolly" is potentially, in my view, far more offensive, because it demeans someone's chosen occupation (in the same way as "quack", "desk jockey" etc).

Lack of Customer Focus..............
 

Industry sectors can be classified in many ways. One simple classification is "Producer" focus versus "Customer" focus.

Aviation, from its birth amongst the Civil Servants and Armed Forces in many countries, has always had a Producer focus. It is concerned about itself, rather than its customers. I moved in to Aviation from the Customer-focussed Service sector, and the changes in attitudes were a shock to me.

It was a mini-revolution in the Aviation sector when South West came along. They had a clear Customer focus. Virgin Atlantic tries to emulate them.

Like it or not, any sector that has a culture that allows phrases such as SLF to survive is a Producer focussed sector. Those that adopt fully a Consumer focus are far more likely to survive.

The mods and I do not agree about this. That's fine, as pprune has always tolerated different opinions.

No problem with the term at all. Indeed, compared to some of the invective that pprune-posters throw at one another it's a welcome and ironically affectionate nickname.

As a pax of 44 years (man and boy :)) I first heard the term in here and thought it hilariously funny. As others have said, each business has pet names for it's customers. The ONLY thing that counts is service and that is adequately covered elsewhere.

Both TS and Flaps know of what they speak and this question gets asked about once a year, because folks don't use SEARCH before posting. As to BA CC? It's their job and they can do what they like with it. There will always be plenty of airlines.

I would vote this thread to be closed and the next time the question is asked - for it to be closed with links to all the other threads. Now, to lighten the load ..

Donkey497Sir Terry Pratchett already invented this. In the Discworld stories, there is a large cabin trunk with many legs on it and it is entirely self-propelled.

Rincewind - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
[an extract] The Luggage is a large chest that follows Rincewind wherever he goes. It is made of sapient pearwood (a magical, intelligent plant which is nearly extinct, impervious to magic, and only grows in a few places outside the Agatean Empire, generally on sites of very old magic). It can produce hundreds of little legs protruding from its underside and can move very fast if the need arises. It has been described as "half suitcase, half homicidal maniac"

Its function is to act as both a luggage carrier and bodyguard for its owner, against whom no threatening motion should be made. The Luggage is fiercely defensive of its owner, and is generally homicidal in nature, killing or eating several people and monsters and destroying various ships, walls, doors, geographic features, and other obstacles throughout the series. Its mouth contains "lots of big square teeth, white as sycamore, and a pulsating tongue, red as mahogany." The inside area of The Luggage does not appear to be constrained by its external dimensions, and contains many conveniences: even when it has just devoured a monster, the next time it opens the owner will find his underwear, neatly pressed and smelling slightly of lavender.

Micro Art Studio - Discworld Miniatures Luggage (1)

Ancient Observer-as iterated many times by various people-the term isn't often used if at all amongst those that have any customer contact. No need for all the "Customer focus"/"producer focus" tripe

I first came across an amusing freight/passenger comparison when, about 47 years ago, as a young marine engineer officer on steam turbine banana boats, I heard the Chief Engineer advise one of our passengers that the really important payload reposed below deck - in bunches - at 54deg F :)

For those few who object to the term, SLF, trust me, most of us are in no doubt that we work(ed) in a service industry and from whence comes our income :ok:

I've only been flying for 28 years (first flight was Libya Arab to Tripoli) and I am perfectly happy to be called SLF. Unless flying long haul then I also have SLB as I carry it on.

Anyone who gets uptight about this is suffering from chronic sense of humour failure.

Just read this on the BBC website - re the B777 incident:
Now that's rude! :}

If they can call us SLF, can we call them Otto? :}

About 57 years ago I was one of 12 pax on the SS Cavina. I was exceptionally well treated by the crew :)

If Fyffes ran airlines .... :ok:


I do agree with PAXboy, though, and with Ancient Observer.

But Enough is Enough.

Looking at how passengers are willing to allow the way they are treated generally, it amazes me how sensitive some can be about a fairly accurate description. In 30 years or more I have not heard them called SLF except on here. I have, however, heard them called far worse, depending where they are in the handling chain.....I have also heard passengers who have less than complimentary names for the various people who aid their passage.:*

Doesn't bother me ...
 

I've always thought it applied collectively - rather than individually. i.e. that aeroplane is full of SLF and not a SLF just got on that 'plane.

In either case it is an euphemism for (a) passenger(s), and a descriptive one.

In Papua New Guinea at least 40 years ago the term was SLC
Self Loading Cargo
At least SLF don't have to endure the indignity of having a cargo net chucked over them :rolleyes:

As SLF, when on a BA long haul, in conversation with some FAs, I have used the term to refer to myself. I find it endearing, and amusing, as they sometimes do. Never had a problem being called it. FAR too many more serious things going on in the world to be upset by that!!. Looking forward to travelling longhaul in March. With BA of course [who else!!!]

Good luck, JEM60 - I'm booked LH in April, and just hoping it happens.


Oh, and don't call British ones "Flight Attendants" ... they don't like that. They're called "Cabin Crew".

Basil With regards the BA777 (we might as well make this thread serve some useful purpose) as well as reporting that some SLF did not realise it was a crash (like LAND / TAXI / PA about staying in your seat until we reach the terminal building / etc.) some proved that they WERE only SLF by trying to take their hand luggage with them ... :ugh: As far as I'm concerned, if we behave like that, the CC/FAs/Hosties can call us anything they like.

SLF speaking (to anyone offended by the term SLF):

For god sake. Can no one take a joke anymore? Why are there so many idiots in the world looking for offence in every damn thing?

Why does the world have to stop coming up with funny sayings or names because some idiots are born without a sense of humour?

Are you really that high up on your horse that you can't fathom the need for humour to brighten up and colour our lives a little? Yes there's a butt of the joke in this instance - as there is with every joke. We're humans, we take the p!$$ out of each other. It's not done with malice, it's actually done to cheer each other up. Get on with it.

So to anyone who is GENUINLY offended by the innocuous, silly and cheeky term "Self Loading Freight" then I say GROW UP, for god's sake.

If you can't laugh at yourself then you're probably missing the biggest joke ever told.

In this instance maybe PPrune has become a victim of its own success. Here we have a forum where the boundaries between provider and customer are blurred.

As said many times before PPrune started as a place where pilots could talk to each other about their jobs. Due to the nature of the job, those that work in it are spread far and wide. Never are you all in the same place at the same time. So PPrune is absolutely perfectly placed to give colleagues in the industry an environment that would never happen in the 'real' world. There are very few careers where the same could be said.

The site has expanded to include those employed in other areas of aviation where the same limitations of talking amongst your colleagues apply.

Many pax who fly regularly enjoy the fact that they are more knowledgeable about flying than regular folk. (Note I don't use the term SLF, but pax which is still 3 letters and quicker to type than passenger or customer.) As such they feel an affinity to the business of flying and often have a misguided belief that they 'know' nearly as much about what goes on as those who are trained, qualified and experienced in the job. Even though they themselves are not.

In essence PPrune is like a members club where non members are welcome to enter and socialise. In the 'real' world if any of us went into a members club for a particular sport, would we as spectators even if we were life long fans, feel that we could assert our opposing views to how the game is played, with any authority? Of course our views as the spectator are vital but we are still in an environment that is not ours by right, we are guests. In the 'real' world we would see quite clearly that we were out of our depth or involved in conversations we had little technical knowledge about. Here in PPrune world the technical conversations are taking place in other areas of the clubhouse and essentially the 'guests' are huddled at the far end of the bar talking amongst themselves and the odd 'friendly' pro comes along to chat with you.

For those of you really against the term. Rather than pick on the 'in house' terminology, listen, you might learn more about the subject that you love.

SLF is not a term I've ever used or heard used outside here, but believe me we have far worse derogatory terms for each other in the industry. How would you like to be called a 'flying spanner'!!

Sorry longer than I anticipated... :O

6

6chimesOf COURSE we know more than anyone else on board!! The very fact that you suggest otherwise means that you have no idea of the intelligence, understanding and sheer brilliance of us wot noes wot we noes. :E

Really, these CC come into our PPRuNe cabin and fink they can boss us around ... :p
('cept for TS, of course) [Doffs cap] Thank you Guv for throwing us the chicken bones after you'd finished your dinner.

Paxboy :D:D. Somebody who hasn't had a sense of humour failure!!

I've been crew for a number of years and had never heard the term SLF used until I joined PPRune a few months ago. I thourght it really funny. It's not malicious in any way and can be quite apt at times for a number of reasons.....one outlined in your post yesterday :ok:

I started using it in this forum and got canned by a number of posters some of which are on this thread. For that reason, not wanting to upset ego's, I curtailed my use and now mostly only use the term if I'm reffering to myself when traveling as SLF.

TS is right. One can choose to take offence at anything or you can laugh it off. I laugh off the "trolleydolly" and "cart tart" labels as to me they are also humerous. In fact I chose my own user name to take the p!ss out of the stereotype. I'm not a "dolly" either in looks or intellect but I bet some pax may well have that perception in my use of this name.

Just to play devils advocate here please can I ask a question on feelings through the use of names.

In the pax forum there are some posters who frequently refer to security staff as "rejects" or "morons" or "animals" or even "retards" purely because of their job.

To those who are precious about the term SLF how do you think they might feel when reading that?

Just a thourght :hmm:

Darl,

You can call me anything you like. I'll just sit there safe in the knowledge....:E

I'm another SLF - I just think it's a title that's a bit of fun. In my field, medicine, it's a bit like referring to the anaesthetist as the gasman (which we do!).

TV