BA scrap meals(except breakfast!)
 

According to the BBC, BA is to scrap all meals and sandwiches on short haul flights of less than 2.5 hours and after 10am. Only nuts and a drink will be served. But, claims BA, it is still a full service airline, emphasising that whatever is served, is free.

Slowly, perhaps, BA is accepting that free refreshments on a short haul flight (regardless of quality) is an unnecessary expense they and their passengers could do without. That idea of flying belongs to a more elegant age of air travel, not today's hop on bus service.

I always thought offering meals on short sectors was not necessary. I used to be a flight attendant when we rushed around with hot meals on flights today where only sandwiches are offered. Many is the time I wondered if we had time to finish the service, it was a mad rush to beat the clock.

People fly to travel not to dine and always have done, so I think it is a sensible move. It is of course a different matter on long haul flights when people need to eat.

I have also noticed recently a high percentage of passengers refuse the sandwiches and opt just for a drink.

Crikey, what are the SH FOs going to eat on the turnaround now? :uhoh:

I take sandwichwes etc will still be for sale? Or are they doing away with refreshments altogether?

Strange, there is no mention of this on BA.com, although Sky News have it on their website.

I wonder if it applies to business class, as well as economy?

Business travellers often need to eat on their flights, due to time constraints, especially towards the end of the day.

From the POV of price there is often little to differentiate BA from the LoCo's for most of the routes that I use. The thing that makes me pick BA is that they feed and water me without asking for more money; it makes the whole experience a little more civilised. So if there's a few quid price differential, BA still gets my vote. This move potentially changes that.

I'm surprised there is not more discussion about this, but not surprised the mods have moved it here. After all, if "SLF" start changing their flying habits as a result of this rumour/news, it won't affect the jobs of sky gods. Oh, wait a minute, yes it will ...

If you want to book an early morning flight...better book early. Free breakfast will be a BIG selling point. (Maybe the ticket price will go up before 10.00 am?)
What about business? Do they get luxury nuts + drink? :rolleyes:

Maybe connected with current Staff dispute?. Removes alot of the work CC do on shorthaul flights and assumes they only then need to carry a minimum compliment of crew at all times?

Removing food in Biz would virtually negate any remaining reason to fly in it - cant see that happening

The food (apart from breakfast) is pretty terrible anyway. I never worked out why the 2pm ABZ-LHR flight had no food when you've been unable to eat at lunchtime as you're travelling to the airport anyway. I almost always decline the food on afternoon or evening flights as I'll be eating properly in the evening and may also have pigged out in the lounge.

Bring back the scones with clotted cream and jam!!!

The food in Club will remain. Hot towels and pretzels are disappearing, but the food and full bars stay. Hope this clarifies.

Gg

Definitely a prelude to reducing the number of CC on SH. It seems that BA have decided to join us LoCo at the bottom of the pool, it's not so bad when you get used to the smell.

Seems like the last ...
 

....remaining reason for travelling BA in Europe has just gone. I.E. just a little smidgen of comfort and "service".

Well, you're the lucky one, aren't you!:suspect::suspect::suspect::suspect::suspect:

BA are going to DIE over this, IF IT'S TRUE.

Anyone know if the new policy will apply to Cityflyer flights as well ?

Until recently they seemed to go their own way with food policy - hot meals morning and evening on the EDI-LCY.

13Alpha

I do not think the removal of sandwiches in traveller will make the slightest bit of differance. Loads of people refuse them and prefer just a drink anyway.

The low cost carriers are not always that much cheaper if at all. If you have to pay for a baggage in the hold fee + a fee for checking -in and another fee for choosing a seat or a fee for first boarding etc. It all adds up to sometimes more than BA charge. They also have a very nice check-in on-line facility where you can select a seat and print off boarding card etc for no additional fees.

For me the airport of departure and time of flight is the deciding factor. Heathrow and City are my first choices. I am no lover of those 0600 departures with an 0500 check-in from airports that are difficult to get to at that time in the morning by public transport.

I second that....

Bear in mind that the meals are never 'free'. They are just included in the cost. With these scrapped, passengers will be paying the same fare but getting less.

One has to remember as well, that an airline being "full service" doesn't just apply to what you get onboard without paying extra. It also applies to free hold luggage, check-in and the most important of all: Back-up when things go wrong, such as technical problems and cancellations. At least BA will get you on to the first available flight and not a flight 2 weeks later. We have been known to re-route with other airlines as well, if we can't get an aircraft out quick enough.

I'm not saying BA is perfect, but a lot of the time we do try.

Gg

Glamgirl

Having encountered wx related cancelations with both BA and U2, one company put me in a hotel, gave me transfers to/from that hotel and also provided 2 meal vouchers, as well as flying me there the next morning.

The other company canceled a flight several hours in advance and told me that hotac/subsistence was my problem.

Both companies followed their policies.

One ticket cost £75 one way and the other was a £350 return, in business class.

Which company do you think had the better policy.

Sorry Glamgirl, but I'm not buying your view or your company's tickets.

It's orange for me as a matter of policy.

F3G,

As I said, we're not perfect, and I do apologise if you feel you've had bad service from BA. Unfortunately the back-up sometimes goes wrong - it shouldn't happen, but it still does, and I'm not making excuses for that.

Gg

Glamgirl

You miss my point which is not about bad service, but policy.

EasyJet's policy is

"If your flight is cancelled as a result of extraordinary circumstances

If your flight is cancelled as a result of extraordinary circumstances which could not have been avoided even though we took all reasonable steps , including but not limited to:

* Air Traffic Control
* Weather
* Civil unrest
* Terrorist alerts and Security alerts
* Strike Action
* Unexpected flight safety shortcomings

easyJet will not compensate you further other than providing you with one of the following options (“Re-routing and Reimbursement Options”):

You will be offered:

1. Re-routing to your final destination at the earliest opportunity; or

2. Re-routing to your final destination at later date at your convenience and subject to availability; or

3. A refund of the fare paid for the journey not made. Additionally, where relevant, we will offer a return flight to the first point of departure at the earliest available time.

In addition, you will be offered free of charge two telephone calls, or telex or fax messages or emails.

Where you choose to be re-routed at the earliest opportunity:

1. You will be provided with meals and refreshments (or vouchers) in a reasonable relation to your waiting time; and

2. If an overnight stay is required because the reasonably expected time of departure is at least the day after the time of departure previously announced, easyJet shall offer you hotel accommodation and transport between the airport and the hotel (within reason)."

BA policy is

"9b) Remedies for delays and cancellations

9b1) We will take all reasonable measures necessary to avoid delay in carrying you and your baggage.

9b2) These measures may, in exceptional circumstances and if necessary to prevent a flight being cancelled, include arranging for a flight to be operated:

* by another aircraft
* by another airline or
* by both.

9b3) If we:

* cancel a flight;
* delay a flight by five hours or more;
* fail to stop at your place of stopover or destination; or
* cause you to miss a connecting flight on which you hold a confirmed reservation;

you can choose one of the three remedies set out immediately below.

Remedy 1
We will carry you as soon as we can to the destination shown on your ticket on another of our scheduled services on which a seat is available in the class of service for which you have paid the fare. If we do this, we will not charge you extra and where necessary, will extend the validity period of your ticket.

Remedy 2
We will carry you to the destination shown on your ticket in the class of service for which you have paid the fare at a later date at your convenience and within the validity period of your ticket on another of our scheduled services on which a seat is available. If we do this, we will not charge youextra.

Remedy 3
We will give or obtain for you an involuntary fare refund.

We will give you additional assistance, such as compensation, refreshments and other care and reimbursement, if required to do so by any law which may apply. We will have no further liability to you."

There may be other areas where BA offers a better policy than easyJet, I don't intend to do a line by line analysis of both sets of carrier's regulations, but from experience I can inform you that the U2 weather diversion policy is unequivocal, whereas the BA one is not, as it depends on one's interpretatin of the law.

That's why I disagree with your blanket statement, which I am sure was written in good faith, but is misleading IMHO.

It will be interesting to see what happens in C class as there is often a significant price difference - or will BA just resort to charging for extra legroom seats, as ZB and others already do?

Agree that those travelling near the sharp end do often rely on a meal at either end of the day. It can be a very early start and a late return on these shorter European routes where day trips can often be the norm.

Good job they keeping breakfast... most important meal of the day! :ok:

Oh dear.

Mis-read the thread title.

Thought it was about 'BA's crap meals'.

LH
 

I fly business for work and economy short haul when I travel for pleasure. BA have finally lost me completely. I was already inclined to LH much more generous with upgrades, the call centre staff speak better English etc.

But now just no question about it BA's an airline which has lost its way, they should have tackled the costs earlier and better.

For years the 'regular' airlines have been downgrading, what used to be meals, to a sandwich or biscuits or similar, many of them seem to be looking at ways of reducing costs.

There was a time that KLM withdrew alcohol from economy class, the passengers voted with their bookings, and KLM felt compelled to reintroduce alcohol again.

Austrian withdrew complimentary food and beverages, like SAS, I didn't mind that so much, because it was available for purchase, whether it be a pizza slice or a prawn sandwich and one wasn't restricted to one miniature beer, if one was paying for it then one could have 2 or 3, I don't mind paying for food and drink providing that it is of quality and heated or chilled appropriately, and it is reflected in the cost of the ticket, Austrian subsequently reintroduced complimentary food and beverages obviously due to passengers voting with their bookings.

Not that I have flown with BA for some 4 years, not since they flew me back from AMS with the gear down much of the way due to some silly sod overfuelling it, but how do they get away with, under trading standards etc, claiming to be the world's favourite airline?

Lufthansa used to have a little stand in the departure area where pax coud take whatever they wanted for the flight, from a selection of sandwiches, fruit, yoghurts, cooldrinks, and so on. They then popped into into a little carrier bag and took it on board.

This stunningly simple idea saved weight and cabin crew time, avoided waste, and allowed pax to get what they wanted. I often wonder why this did not become more widespread.

Phileas FoggThey no longer do and have not done for many years. If I recall correctly, it was based on the number of international pax carried, as folks like AA carry more but mainly internal.

This change is either sensible or another of the 'thousand cuts' to make up their death. (The thread about possible downgrading of BA Miles is another example, if proved correct) I tend to agree with the suggestion that this is a preamble to reducing CC on SH. However, the point I repeat periodically is that - BA are in the last pahse of their existence and that is only natural. In one form or another, they have been going since the 1920s and not many large companies can sustain themselves that long. All the ususal human forces will bring about their close. The only point of debate is how they will meet their close and when. I say this with no glee or truimph.

Not offering sandwiches in economy will not have the slightest affect on whether pax choose to fly with BA or not and it most certainly will not bring the company to bankruptcy.

Why should it? other carriers do not offer free sandwiches and their aircraft are full.

People usually travel on the ailines that offer the cheapest fares, from the most conveninet airports at the most convenient times.

I find it hard to believe that some people think all the pax in the tourist cabins of BA short haul aircraft are only there for the sandwiches.

I am a regular pax and notice a lot of pax refuse the sandwiches.

It is crazy anyone thinks people will go out of their way to fly with other airlines from remote airport at sometimes dreadful departure times just because they will not get a free sandwich with BA.

One can always buy a sandwich in the airport and after all you also have to pay for them on the LCC's. at least drinks will be free on BA unlike they are on the LCC's.

Not mentioned so far is the reduction in quality and size of meals on long haul premiums cabins

Whilst a smaller 2nd meal and no chocs and canapes as they put it might seem trivial, the accountants appear not to have a clue about the knock on effects. Cheapen your premium product and you ultimately end up with a cheap product.

Buying food ---- No problem

Buying Beverage ---- No problem

Provided it reflects on the purchase price of the ticket.

Bad/unfriendly service ground up ----- Big Problem

Business goes where it is invited, but only stays where it is well treated!

12 trouble free years travelling on other carriers.:p

From my local, and my most convenient, international airport of BHX I will select my flights based on sociable schedules, then price, then quality of cabin service and then if I get points that don't expire after a period of time.

In this respect, when BACX operated from BHX I never flew with them once, I would always prefer to fly with Swiss, then KLM, then SAS or Lufthansa and with Air France bringing up the rear.

If Swiss were to withdraw the quality of cabin service then they would drop down the list, if KLM were still declining to serve alcohol, paid for or not, in economy class then they wouldn't even appear on the list, SAS charge for food and drink but their cabin service is good and if Lufthansa drop their 'quality' of service any lower then they'll be following behind Air France!

And Iberia is rethinking serving again free catering on board. They probably have realized that cutting corners in this point means only marginal profits. Only when you have overprized food for purchase, you get huge big margins.

Of course I don´t mean that passengers need food (although for some it´s essential to keep them busy in flight), and of course passengers are not going to starve, or demand luxury trays with full meals, which make fight attandants to rush, but I don´t think it´s a good idea.

It´s not really commercial. BA is not a low cost, and won´t lower their prices in a regular basis, so I don´t think many passengers will understand this move. Market is market, and I am sure other airline will benefit from this.

People don´t normally choose an airline for the meals they serve in shorthaul, and many passengers don´t mind buying something at the terminal, but at the same price, same schedule, service makes the difference and in such a competitive markets, these cuts won´t help at all to improve the annual turnover.

Keltic

You make an excellent point.

The image of a business is crucially important to its strategic market positioning and to whether customers perceive it as being a good company to buy products or services from.

Whilst removing meals, in itself, is probably not the end of the world for customer service, it may well have a more subtle impact on perception and thus buying habits.

A company differentiating itself, e.g. the recent 'upgrade to British Airways' promotion may well be wise to leave the service provisions alone, as you suggest.

Otherwise it could become just another 'me too' supplier, in an oversupplied sector, with probably a larger higher cost base than someof the competition.

(many passengers don´t mind buying something at the terminal)

Precisely, but at the time when KLM economy was like a desert, and I attempted to drink the one beer I had bought with me I got bolloxed something rotten by the cabin crew.

Another time, I was flying with Lufthansa on a CRJ out of MUC, LH only serve a miniature (250ml) or beer, and in the MUC terminal, aware of LH's appalling cabin service, I had bought a couple of beers for the journey, it was the evening and quite a lengthy sector.

As soon as the cabin crew became aware I had my own beer they had an attitude problem and this continued throughout the flight and all I was doing, or was trying to do, was relax and wind down after a long day whilst looking forward to getting to my hotel.

Eventually, as we had just begun descent into our destination, the cabin crew, maintaining their attitude problem, demanded to take the beer from me as we were about to land, I hasten to add that I had already secured my tray table and my seat in the upright position.

Well, one knows when the gear comes down on a CRJ :) and looking out of the window we were still at umpteen thousands of feet whilst the flaps remained up, by now I was fed up with the cabin crew attitude problem telling her "the wheels are up, the flaps are, up, we're still at umpteen thousands of feet so if we are about to land then you've got bigger problems than allowing me to finish off my beer!"

All this nonsense that we are not allowed to consume our own food or alcohol, well if they tried offering anything more that a snack and a 250ml can of beer then, perhaps, we wouldn't need to consume our own!

And as for BA, nothing has convinced me to fly with them for the past 4 (ish) years and I'm not reading anything here that persuades me to recommence flying with BA.

flapsforty,

There is a way, an attitude that may be adopted, when fulfilling one's duties and when I say I experienced attitude problems I mean precisely that. One can politely ask one not to consume their own alcohol, that one has only brought with them because they know that only one 250ml can of beer will be served on board, but when one is spoken with such an attitude, a customer is spoken to with such an attitude, then it puts one's back up.

There is nothing unlawful about one consuming one's own alcohol providing that one doesn't endanger the safe operation of that aircraft, if the airline want to monitor one's level of alcohol comsumption then they should make alcohol available, paid for or otherwise, and if they do have such a condition of travel then it should be inclued in the terms & conditions at the time one is booking, which it is/was not!

If I want to experience a p1ss poor customer relations experience then I can travel with an Irish LCC but when I choose to fly with national flag carriers, travelling on business, then I expect improved upon customer relations, we all have a choice of how we may choose to carry out our duties, with an attitude or with a smile, and I have a preference for the latter.

If you want to be heinous and drink two cans of beer on your flight you better not fly a 'full service' airline anymore as getting that second can is like pulling teeth.

You get far better service on the Irish LCC you mention as all you need to do is wait for the frequent cabin crew trips down the aisle (remember when you got those on full service airlines??) and ask for a can of beer. It will cost a couple of quid, but then that's what beer costs in a pub, or a cross channel ferry, or a train, so no idea why it should be any different on a plane.

You do indeed get far better service on a LCC if you quite reasonably like to drink a few beers on your flight.

And depending on the registry of the aircraft, it can be illegal to drink your own booze on board. It's illegal to be 'drunk' on an aircraft, which of course depends on the definition of 'drunk'. In some places it means being over the drink drive limit.

Phileas, did the FA explain to you that consuming your own drink was verboten and offer you a second LH beer instead?

Flaps Forty

Let me set you a little scenario.

You are a pax on a 3 hour flight, where the service in your cabin includes an open bar.

The cabin crew decide to implement industrial action and withold the bar service completely. They announce this after takeoff, so you do not have the option of changing to another airline.

You have your own duty free vodka with you.

Do you either

(a) replace the three mini bottles of wine that you would normally take with three small glasses of your own vodka, relaxe, enjoy the flight and write it down to experience

or

(b) drink only soft drinks and then sue the airline for breach of contract?