TC 'Terrifies' Passengers - The Press at their worst
 

Terrified tourists boycott flight home after being told to sit at back 'to balance nose-heavy jet' | Mail Online

It must be a new requirement for aircrews to have no cares about their own safety.............

Either all the pax are too stupid to understand (possible) or the airline's communication skills are non-existent.

When no-one in authority is able to explain clearly that there's nothing to worry about, this is what you get.

Thank god they never had to travel on an ATP !!!
We regularly had to cram them so far down the back cos the thing was so damned nose-heavy.
In fact it was almost a miracle it ever got off the ground !
I suggest the "terrified" holiday makers stick to Blackpool in future...far safer on the M6.

:ugh:

Why does everyone keep posting Daily Mail articles on here???

Really guys, stop reading that ****. :ugh:

I'm sure that would be disconcerting for many people waiting to board if they witnessed this sort of thing then were told they had to sit at the back to balance the plane !

Not everyone knows about weight distribution and C of G issues in the passenger queue - more care in how it was presented to the passengers maybe . . .

MP

You have to read it - it's called entertainment.

Loosen up man.

Always best to take advice from an expert!

On a serious note, did the captain come out into the departure lounge to explain the situation and assuage any concern? I am sorry to say that the tone and style used by gate staff in this kind of situation is not exactly expert, neither is it reassuring.

Intelligent passengers often sit there and think 'ok, so he doesn't know what he's talking about, but at least the flight crew do'.

Must be a slack news day........ Mind you, all it takes is one pillock and things rapidly get out of hand.
What kind of reaction did the 17 y.o. expect to get from a mother who has a fear of flying??? Serves them all bloody right - I hope they can`t claim their airfares with EZY back - aircraft was perfectly OK for flight.
What`s this country coming to?

Is it standard practice to fly with a cargo door jammed that could burst open at any moment?

A little balance is required
 

The average passenger hasn't a clue why an aircraft can fly let alone understand centre of gravity issues. To many people, flight is not too far from magic and is only accepted because "science" says it can happen.

A lot of these folks have just seen recent footage of the results of a big airline disaster and, not surprisingly, are nervous.

As ever, the sensationalist press have a lot to answer for encouraging fear and allowing these kinds of mass hysteria to persist through sloppy and over the top reporting.

The key to quashing this kind of nonsense is for professionals to desmystify the whole thing. Professional friendly patience, openess and clarity of communication is paramount.

Why can't newspapers ever get it right?
 

It's not just the Daily Mail. France's apparently serious "Le Figaro" has printed some fairly crass nonsense about AF 447. On the other hand, Germany's trashy tabloid "Bild Zeitung" did at least explain why there's nothing to worry about in these photos: Nach Absturz von AF 447 - Solche Bilder machen Flugpassagieren Angst - News - Bild.de

heard on the speakers :
"in two minutes we have to make a left turn so if 30 of you would please go to the left side of airplane.
thanks "
:)

PAUL2412
Yes we regularly fly for hours on end worrying that the closed and locked cargo doors ( jammed! ) will burst open any second.
In fact I regularly sit at home watching that my closed dining room door doesn't burst open and cause absolute mayhem in the hall.
Have a word with yourself :ugh:

Jesus wept. Is this all there is to report today?

I've never been to Palma but wouldn't the inbound and outbound pax be seperated?

Also a little fact here has anyone here even been the target of a disgruntled group with a ringleader? I doubt even the most experienced Captain could calm an irate group down. All it takes is one person to be a bit daft, i.e. some young girl calling home to run around saying "My Mum says not to get on" and you end up in a situation that rapidly becomes uncontrollable. It's nothing to do with customer service training or the presentation of the issue and everything to do with mob mentality.

Isn't this a case of nervous passengers and 2+2 = 5 or more? I say that as a nervous passenger myself! It seems, though, that a connection was made between the bumpy inward flight and the jammed door. I can't say I see the link. Presumably the plane was balanced on its way in? If there had been the same weight problem on the previous flight, wouldn't that too have been flown with all the passengers down the back?

Where TC went wrong was in not getting everyone on to the plane and then telling them to sit anywhere. It's far easier to refuse to board rather than demand to get off again. Once on the plane, the captain could then explain why everyone needed to sit at the back and, more importantly, why safety regs allow him/her to fly the plane with a jammed (and locked anyway) cargo door. He/she should then have broken the link to the incoming bumpy flight by telling everyone how bad the turbulence had been on the way over and to apologise in advance for the expected bumpy flight home.

I think pilots sometimes forget that the bulk of their passengers find flying unnerving to a greater or lesser degree. 2 minutes spent explaining that the flight might not be very comfortable but certainly wouldn't be dangerous could have saved TC lots of time and bad publicity. In light of the AF accident recently, airlines and crew ought to be mindful that passengers are currently more worried than they were three weeks ago about flying in turbulent conditions. Irrational? Of course. It doesn't seem that way, though, six miles up when the plane appears incapable of flying in a straight line!

If it was jammed closed, how would it "burst open at any moment"?

:ugh::ugh::ugh:

Some people seriously need to get a life.

If they are that unstable and hysterical they should get the charabanc to Blackpool and make sure not to go up the Blackpool Tower.

So the captain asks them to move, and they then assume they are all going to die. Did they think the flight-deck and cabin crew all had parachutes/ejector seats.

It's amazing that people so thick are a) allowed a passport and b) allowed back in to the UK.

The aircraft operating the flight was a Mint air 752. Daily mail never mentions this. I also live in cramlington and recognise her. If I see her in the local I will educate her on weight and balance. This should prevent any problems if she ever flys with ryanair and finds the front and rear 6 rows blocked off for balance.

ShIfTy.

Oh dear. we're at Snob Factor 9 today, aren't we boys? "They should stick to Blackpool"... have a listen to yourselves. How do you cope with mixing with the peasants in the airport concourse?

It is a non-story in several ways but IF and it's a big IF the story has the facts correct:

1. The pilot / crew must have poor communication skills

2. I don't care who you are - if you're queuing for a flight and the arrivals are kissing the ground / sobbing / telling you not to get on the plane, you're seriously going to consider not boarding the thing!!

However, there's bound to be buckets of over-exaggeration in this story. Just try to show your fellow man a bit of love, eh?

Why were the passengers on the arriving flight making such a fuss?
If there was turbulence, that has no connection with a jammed and locked baggage compartment! Unless the turbulence was so severe it twisted the airframe thus jamming the baggage door!
The door must have been jammed BEFORE the previous flight boarded, otherwise they would have also been running around without their luggage!!

What a non story, just to get someones picture in the paper.

The girl didn't look at all concerned and here we have a "Mum" mouthing off instead of being pleased to see her.... Hmmmmm maybe that was the problem, did she not want her back?? I think all the noise is because she wants "compo" for the cost of the flight. Still, maybe she'll go by Ryanair in future to stay on her own level.

Can someone explain how the departees were able to talk to those arriving (according to Palma Airport Majorca, Guide to the layout of Palma Airport Majorca there is some disttance between arrivals and departures.....)? Also, according to what I see on Google Earth, the chances are those arriving would have used an airbridge so how were they able to "kiss the ground"?

Let's just say that someone is talking porkies in that "article"

The topic will be discussed on tomorrow's (Wednesday's) North East Tonight programme.


LJ

It has always been my view that all people should obtain a "Certificate of Competence to Leave the UK and Travel Abroad", before being allowed to set foot on any mode of transport, airport and/or port. It really should include Eurostar and the Channel Tunnel rail services as well.

Regretably these days such a document is becoming even more of a necessity, with some of the chavs the UK allows into the outside world.

As for the Daily Mail and it's sensational reporting of events that don't happen, well.....:rolleyes: Perhaps this publication should be removed from newspaper sales sections and placed with the rest of the comics.

Why didnt they just un-jam the door and be on with it?

A little delay, no bad press, no hysteria!

Here in the States it would be a delay, some grumbling.....

than Business as Usual.....

:confused:

it was a mint air plane with no mainenance cover @ ncl so its easier said than done to unjam the door

Used to fly on Servivensa DC-3s around Venezuela a lot back in the 1990s.

Was SOP for PIC to pop into the cabin before departure and usher any bigger guys up to fill all the empty seats towards the nose.

Tourists were always trying to get the best views from the windows behind the wing - they'd had a few cases of aborted take-offs where they couldn't raise the tail! :uhoh:

sorry, keeprighton, don't agree at all.

This is what happens after 12 years of "everyone is right, everyone is an expert" society.
This is the same attitude that has brought back a number of illnesses and epidemics because people are too precious to vaccinate their kids because their mate told them that they had read somewhere that Wikipedia said is wasn't safe. There are a number of examples of this all through our society.
Do these people go to hospital and tell the doctor how to treat them? Do they tell the teachers how to teach their kids (actually, yes, they probably do that)? Why do they think that they know more than the captain? or the crew?
Muppets.
I guess you could view the several hundred quid they had to spend on making their own way home as a tax on "preciousness", or an idiot tax.

Firstly when arriving into Palma on an airbridge you will pass those passengers waiting to board in the gate area and even more so as the flight was already delayed. Some of the arriving passengers over 100 did not have their luggage either this was sent out over the next 2 days.
I was actually in the airport the next morning and from what the passengers told me there was obviously very bad communication between the airline and passengers. They were told about the fault and apparently what made it worse was the state of the cabin and that they had seen the arriving passengers. In my eyes there is no sensation in the news articles I have read.

The Daily Mail is a very opaque window on the world, so I am going to place very little reliance on what it chose to report. However I am a bit confused as to how these passengers came by this information?

If it necessary to use a forward hold only for baggage, because you cannot open the rear one, why would you tell the passengers that? I appreciate that if you need to redistribute passengers as a result, they need to be told something, but that should simply be confined to weight and balance issues. If it were a passenger door, then clearly there would be a safety issue, and the passengers must be briefed about the unserviceable exit and relocated accordingly. However for a cargo door, it is absolutely none of their concern, and nor should it be made one.

This seems to be a case of too much information, and not enough thought on the part of whoever chose to impart it.

Beazelbub

A cargo door failure killed 346 people in my lifetime.

What is the failure mode of a jammed cargo door on a 757?

What are the consequences?

I a neither stupid nor hysterical, but I would wish to know the answers to the above questions before boarding.

As it is my life I am entrusting to the airline, it is (with all due respect) very much my business.

If I received a sensible answer, I would be happy to board, but if not I'd walk away.

I wonder how well this matter was communicated.

It is a plug door, like all of the other doors. If it is closed it is closed. It has no correlation to the unmodified rear cargo doors on McDonnell Douglas DC-10 series 10's like the THY aircraft you are referring to.

The consequences are that you cannot use that hold.

You wouldn't and shouldn't be any the wiser before boarding. It is not your concern.

It has no bearing on your safety and is therefore irrelevant to your business. As such you are not required nor is it relevant that you would be required to make any choices.

I also wonder how well or indeed why this matter was communicated.

Moronic buffoons, whats so hard to understand about having to trim the aircraft?

Beazelbub

According to the manufacturer's records, the THY a/c was modified.

Are you saying that the manufacturer was wrong?

Without delving back into the archives of flight TK981. Yes as I recall the manufacturers service bulletin had not been incorporated into this recently delivered DC10-10 nor a number of others that had been delivered at around the same time. However that has no correlation to the cargo doors on a 757.

Beazelbub

So, the manufacturers records said modified, but ship 29 had not, in fact, been modified.

Is this your understanding? Please confirm.

Yes. Let me refer you to the AAIB accident report Here

and section 5.1

Once again and to keep this topic on track, these weren't plug type doors, and the 757's are.

So now we have established that manufacturer's records may be inaccurate, please confirm

(a) what is the failure mode of the B757 cargo door?
(b) what are the consequences?
(c) if it jammed on the previous sector, how did they get any cargo out?

The point is that customers are more difficult than they were in 1974.

As a consequence, the old 'trust me, I'm a doctor' approach no longer works.

For those who don't get it, to paraphrase 411A, look forward to a nice career flipping burgers.

Those who do get it will understand the importance of effective stakeholder management.

How many times does a person need to answer your question? I have made a few attempts now.

Anybodies records may be innacurate. If you have a particular concern in this regard, ask the party concerned.

I have already told you the 757 has a plug type door. Once it is closed and locked, it is closed and locked.

If it is jammed locked, then anything inside will stay inside until it is unlocked.

Customers may be "more difficult" and ?

I am not a doctor, I am a captain and if you fly with me, you have little choice other than to trust me. I do not run decisions by passengers for their approval. That is not a function of my job, nor is it in any way practical.

I am not sure what you mean by "flipping burgers," as in a 30 year career, and I am sure 411A would agree, my job, his (and most of my compatriots) has to been to apply the highest professional standards at all material times such that the trust placed in us by our employers and our regulators towards everyone and everything in our charge, satisfies the highest expectations.

I think perhaps it is yourself that may be having trouble "getting it?" As such you perhaps provide a good example of why providing too much information only serves to fuel the fire of ill informed comment, when somebody is on a mission rather than seeking pertinent information. Neverthless I hope these answers have been useful?

One thing that always makes me scratch my head (not only related to this (non-)incident) is how at one hand everyone complains about journos/pax not knowing and understanding anything about anything, and at the other hand, try to keep it just that way with reasons like

It's kind of funny when you think it through.