boardingpass with that attitiude I hope you don't work within a mile of a paying customer. Shocking.

You're right, Skippy! Please allow me to retract that suggestion. I don't think the poor baggage handlers at Terminal 5 deserve that kind of treatment...

I guess it's harder to get a smile out of some than others...:}

boardingpass

This took place in August.
It might amuse you perhaps?

An elderly Swedish woman tried to get herself on board an international flight by climbing onto an unmanned luggage belt after her suitcase.
The incident happened at Stockholm's Arlanda airport.
The unnamed 78-year-old thought she was just following instructions on how to check in for her flight.
She carefully lay down on the conveyor belt and was whisked into the baggage handling bay where she was rescued by surprised staff.

Possible you were at check in that day?

A few facts......

a) Some people just have a problem with authority. Some posters on this thread show classic symptoms. Most crew don't weild their authority in a "power trip" way but they have authority.

b) Checking boarding cards will have some type of revenue protection reasoning attached to it. However, like everything, safety and security is the primary reason. Someone on my aircraft who is not authorised to be so is a security risk. I don't know whether they are a terrorist, a stow away or a lost passenger therefore they are a risk to myself, my fellow crew members and my passengers.
You will therefore find that if unauthorised passengers are discovered inflight, procedure will takeover because it is deemed a security risk.

c) It can be frustrating having to show boarding cards at the aircraft door aswell but just keep them to hand.
Boarding card for boarding?? Whatever next? They'll be asking for money in Tesco.
The truth is many airports don't have airbridge equipment and therefore it is very easy to attempt to board another aircraft.
Who are left to deal with this? Cabin crew and to a lesser extent, flight crew.

d)Going through the airport these days is sometimes a nightmare. If you don't like it though then the choice is simple, don't fly. The airport experience isn't as good as what it once was but we do have the terrorists to blame for that. Therefore you shouldn't be rude to cabin crew, nor is it acceptable to be so when they simply ask to see your boarding card for a "final cabin crew like to be sure check" and more importantly for the passenger, to make sure you are on the right flight. Why? Because the passenger seldom accepts blame for boarding the wrong flight.

e) Some cabin crew can be stand offish.........yes. Some passengers can be ************************************** yes. That is human nature as much as i hate it.

Indeed we do, but it is a cop-out to blame it all on the terrorists when a fair proportion of the inconvenience is due to incompetent and irrational knee-jerk reactions by populist politicians (and some to the travelling public for putting up with the worst of the crap without simply saying "enough irrational theatre").

What an idiotic comment.

The boarding pass is checked at the gate by most airlines in Europe.

Of course, British airlines are obliged to check these again on boarding the aircraft (to comply with regulations), whereas many others are not.

The regular aircraft losses around Europe show how foolish the other countries are in not enforcing this policy.

Two arguments here, one side says requesting boarding cards at the door is a security precaution and the other says it's revenue protection. The first thing to say is most european airlines don't check boarding cards at the door, (though Air France is the exception)

It's probably fair to say that the majority of people who commit crimes on aircraft are in possession of a valid boarding card. Furthermore, the crimes they carried out would have been committed regardless of whether they'd had their boarding card checked or not. Also, a passenger getting on the wrong flight is not really a security issue, as Mancry mentions it sets in motion a procedure, this procedure will cost the airline money because it's their fault it happened and they will have to pay to get the passenger to the correct location.

I couldn't care less if a FA wants to see my by boarding card at the door or not, if they ask me for the card I will show it to them along with the correct courtesy. But, to suggest this is a security issue is simply incorrect, it's revenue protection and nothing else.

Yes:) It also illustrates the layers of extra "stuff" involved in flying to or from any British airport. The boarding card thing is a non issue but there are many others which just add to the general unpleasantness of transiting a UK airport, especially LHR. Nowadays I never use BA because it involves transiting LHR and I hate that. I imagine there are a lot of people in Europe who are also boycotting LHR.

There has been a lot of discussion in this thread and some how I still think it comes back to the airport experience which is generally poor and therefore easy to possibly upset or confuse staff as well as the passenger.

That said flew through Munich Terminal 2 yesterday - spaceous - lots of people actually working at the bag drop area - security passage painless friendly and quick (all security areas active) and free coffee around the departure dates. With many weary eyed passengers due to Octoberfest I must say everything was handled wonderfully and when it came to showing ID at the gate as well as earlier at baggage check in) it did not matter as no one was feeling harassed. LH did not check the boarding card on boarding.


Nivsy

I think that the lack of honest reasons given for why we are forced to undergo the amount of checks is destabilising. If you give less than honest answers then don't expect your passengers to have the same amount of respect for airline staff as we once had. Personally the airport experience in the UK treats us as retarded morons to be herded, quite literally like sheep to part company with our cash to keep us calm until the plane eventually arrives. Putting staff in those silly bloody dayglo vests makes them look and behave like council jobsworths on a power trip.

When airlines provide service levels like that and you will get the passengers you deserve.

Onse on board, watching some of the larger cabin crew glare at the now seated potential terrorists as the pilot dives for the safety of the forward loo is comic. I have seen these guys flex as if they are in the SAS all to prevent someone trying to get into the flightdeck with a yoghurt sneaked through security.

It's a continual drip, drip, drip, of cultural change within the industry which now has an us and them attitude between them and passengers. Lest anyone ever use the term SLF I would sack every damn one of em. This is a service industry after all.

On Ryanair, each passenger must show his boarding pass at the door of the 737; in some airports, it would not be impossible for somebody to board the wrong coach to the aircraf or walk to the wrong aircraft: you show the boarding pass, it is acknowledged by the attendant, all is well; where is the problem, really ?

I understand the need (or desire) to inspect boarding cards upon entering the aircraft, and have no problem whatsoever with showing mine when requested.

However, while I would emphasise that there is no excuse for rudeness, cabin crew should remember that by the time that we, the passengers, have reached the aircraft we have been herded like sheep, made to wait in countless, endless lines, patronised and - above all - have probably already shown that bit of cardboard to half a dozen other people on the long journey from departure drop-off to aircraft. Sometimes the insanity of it all just gets us down, and it is perhaps not surprising that our apparent lack of enthusiasm at being asked to show that same bit of paper yet again may be mistaken for grumpiness.

Airports are miserable places, and flying is a miserable experience. Sometimes we can't help but show our feelings, no matter how hard we try not to.

Is it true that up to the 1950's friends and relatives could board the plane to say their goodbyes before the attendants announced that all non-passengers would have to leave before takeoff?

What civilised times we used to live in... How the world has changed.

My wife and I walked into T5 at 05.45 and she scanned the departure board for the Nice flight. Oops, must be from T1, sorry. the excuse at that time in the morning that I wanted here to admire T5 didn't go down too well.

Given this scenario, its probably just as CC inspect my pass on boarding, chances are that somehow I might be on the wrong flight.

This age thing aint good!!

Must be a lot.

There are at least two of us on this forum :}

With so many viable alternative options these days, who would willingly transit a third class airport, where one gets the impression they think they are doing you a favour by letting you through?

another gripe from another oldie . . . . . . . . !
 

Yes, that's true - I can remember my first flights on things like Viscounts and Vanguards - propellors up at the front !

More seriously though, the same lack of security checks still applies TODAY - in 2008 - to train (or underground) travel. Anyone at all can get on a high speed Intercity train about to leave Euston. The ticket checks come once under way, possibly at 100mph.

And the hundreds of bags and cases on board Richard Branson's shining Pendolino are NEVER CHECKED AT ALL . . . . . . . . . . .

Impossible to get on wrong aircraft ? well, well....
 

We were sitting on the FR 737-800 parked at Girona and due to leave for Rome, some two years ago, when - after a head count - one of their charming cabin staff said "ladies and gentlemen, if there are any passengers who wish to fly to Paris, would they please disembark and get on the aircraft next to us, as THIS one is going to Rome..."

To applause (from the Catalans) and a brief chorus of "Why were they born so beautiful" (from the British - all right, from me), two red-faced passengers struggled down the aisle & steps and got onto the flight next door.

And I've done it myself, bording with no questions asked an AF flight from Charles de Gaulle to Dusseldorf, aircraft parked on the left, when I wanted to go to Frankfurt a.M., aircraft parked on the right. Only by chatting to the chap in the next seat did I find out. Caused no end of confusion when I got off, having to retrieve my boarding card from the AF stew who hadn't bothered to read it properly.

So not a bad idea, checking boarding cards on board, when they are actually looked at.

RaF

As one of the Mods has commented, it is very odd how much of a reaction this thread has caused.

As crew my humble question to you passengers is this;

For various reasons and many have been mentioned here, it is entirely possible for someone to board the wrong a/c. It doesn't happen that often but it certainly does happen. The door of the a/c is the last point at which the error will have no impact on delaying the flight.

If we do let someone aboard who should not be there then a whole raft of procedures are brought into play to re secure the aircraft. Which can quite easily take 30 minutes from beginning to end.

So, what do you want guys, you can keep that boarding card out for 2 minutes longer and give it to us for the briefest of moments or incur missing slots, late arrivals, diaries turned upside down, business lost etc?

Security is the only reason that my airline checks those boarding cards although we can then identify our business/first class pax a little sooner and therefore start the service that they have paid considerably more for, earlier.

I do wonder if those of you who are really negative toward the crew on this thread are the same pax that blame us when it is foggy! We can't win sometimes and we know it.

Here is a headline for you: "Million to one chance error leads to airliner down and hundreds dead"

Ridiculous? Now the procedure is here it has to stay just in case that one needle in the haystack slips through and takes one of us away from our kids forever.

6

Interesting thread! Two sides to every story. First, if you can't even be bothered to be civil to CC when entering the plane, then congratulations - you're officially a miserable git and I hope you enjoy negotiating your miserable way through the world.

Other side - I am never grumpy at the door, but I confess I am sometimes grumpy on the airbridge when the queue seems to be completely stuck solid. The first aim of boarding is surely to be as swift as possible. A lengthy greeting or interaction between the CC and SLF is not in anyone's interest. In the Middle East I have actually been walked to my seat (in Y) by a cabin attendant and lovely though it was it would surely impact on overall speed of access for the others.

Charming, but an absolutely appalling idea if you think about it.

Happened to me once. Calgary had just opened the new terminal in mid 70s. I was on one of the first flights out to Washington. Mid 70s.

Somehow, in the confusion hat made T5 and Malpensa look well organised, about 6 pax managed to get onto the wrong aircraft. Not til headcount was it discovered.

Other details lost in mists of time.

I'm rather horrified that people on here thinks that us cc checking boarding cards at the door has no impact on the safety of a flight. Imagine this: some "unstable" person books in for a flight with checked in luggage and blatantly walks onto another aircraft. There's explosives (or even something as small as a box of "Lucky Luke" matches in this person's luggage. The "unstable" one travels to ABC safely, but the luggage travels half-way to DEF before bringing the aircraft down. Therefore, it's a security risk.

If all cc could explain to pax when they ask, that "I'm just checking your flight number and date", pax would understand much better. On a short haul aircraft (single aisle), there is no necessety of telling people where they're sitting (unless they ask).

I try to do the boarding card scenario as good humoured as possible, by sometimes saying that we don't want any uninvited guests on board, or just checking they're goiog to the right place. All with a smile of course. It helps the pax understand and then accept why we do it. Trust me, we don't do it because we desperately want to, it's what we have to do.

Hope this clarifies some issues.

Gg

Glamgirl

The trouble is that some of us make the majority of our flights on airlines who do not check the boarding passes.

So are you telling me that I am taking a higher risk by flying with the likes of Lufthansa, SN Brussels, Swiss etc? And if so is it an unacceptable risk?

Please provide references to support your answers.

And therein lies the problem, different standards and different perceptions.

Having said that, I don't have a problem produing a boarding pass on UK airlines or Air France, its just a discordant feeling.

Why should cc have a obligation to explain anything to pax?
If you board my bus, I want to know....
1.That you belong on it.
2. That you have a clue where your seat is.
3. That you get to it ASAP so that I make my slot.
I am the Captain...
I ask the cabin crew to undertake these things for your safety and convenience.
BC and FC pax should lead by example. They are not meant to be the mangiling herd.
Any acts of grumpy by pax at entry port is nothing more that bullying.
Exterminate bullys........No problems with that I guess?

But capts don't ask crew on most European airlines to check boarding passes, do they?

And the ones who do are doing what they are told to do by their employers.

Anyway, nice trolling try, but I'm not biting further.

[QUOTE]And therein lies the problem, different standards and different perceptions.

Having said that, I don't have a problem produing a boarding pass on UK airlines or Air France, its just a discordant feeling./QUOTE]

Different countries have different security risks and therefore will have different procedures in place to deal with it. Take for example VISA's; one country wants you to have one another might not, some countries want you to have a visa if you are from a certain country yet you will not need one if you are a citizen of somewhere else. Everyone just seems to put up with that!

It is not my employer that demands that I ask politely to see your boarding card it is a directive from the DfT and their security groups.

I take your point that the inconsistency is infuriating, some airports in the UK want your belt off, some don't, some want your shoes off, some don't etc. etc. etc.

Don't shoot the messenger as I'm only doing my job.

6

Good point Glagirl, shame the girl at the other end of the bridge can't be trusted to read a small piece of card. Would you like a straw to clutch at? For God's sake you're checking the same thing at BOTH ENDS of the same airbridge. Clearly all those airlines that allow this highly dangerous loophole to remain open must be grounded. Summon the authorities so they may be warned!

Some people can't see the wood for the trees. Frequent fliers see the disparity between airlines more than the staff that are the "experts" it seems. You check boarding cards because you are told to, fair enough. The fact that not everyone does is a clue that it might *NOT* be as essential as you are told. I hope you don't believe everything your employer tells you. Perhaps "your terms and conditions are safe".......

From the above collection of condescending banalities:

he or she is constantly thinking about 9/11

Should see a therapist then.

el
 

I'm sure that you a thoroughly decent person and hold a job where you also have responsibility to someone or some board members. You will have probably had to make decisions that are in the interest of the business which may have been mis-understood or not seen within the overall structure of the business. So maybe you could consider the post that you have criticised and think again.

If you have never been in the position I have stated then you have absolutely no business commenting.

I have never been so offended by a post on pprune.

6

Eh? If the passenger wanted to do as you suggest then surely the simple answer is not to board any aircraft at all? The security check that stops what you fear (unaccompanied luggage being dangerous) is the check on the aircraft that the luggage is on that so are all the attendant passengers.

But in any case, you seem not to have noticed that the current breed of terrorist has no problems dying for their beliefs so the issue of people flying separately from their luggage is more or less irrelevant these days.

6

I wouldn't wish to get into an argument with you, as I respect your approach and time and time again you take a reasonable view on these boards :D

Having said that, my point is about the ridiculous inconsistency, not the act of showing a boarding pass at the door - it really doesn't worry me and only takes a few seconds.

But if different countries have different security needs, how come the airlines operate in and out of the same airports with different standards? Should n't they standardise by airport by country?

To use your example of visas, wouldn't it be ridiculous if people flying on BA to a certain needed a visa, but people on Lufthansa didn't?

That's exactly the type of inconsistency people like me, who fly every week, experience regularly.

I certainly don't blame the crew, as I am well aware that the DfT set rules which their employers must comply with, but I do notice the differential standards and wonder what it is all about.... and like another poster said on another post recently, I actively avoid corresponding through UK airports because of the extra hassle, wchih does not make me feel one little bit safer.

Summa101

Anyone who writes such a rant is truly in the wrong job and needs counselling into a more suitable position.

Assuming the rant is serious, there is a lot of repressed anger in there and that is neither healthy for the person nor those that person comes into contact with.

Ever heard of the term "going postal?"

F 3 G
 

I take your point, the inconsistencies are baffling. Like you I fly all the time mainly as crew although I do pax a fair bit too.

Most of the problems arise when poorly trained/paid staff are told to implement rules that are there for security. If you are in civviies and ask why a particular rule/process is in place you will be seen as a threat and quite possibly given a curt answer. I have seen that on a number of occasions and I have also seen many nice and informative security employees.

As you will already know UK airports are profit focussed and hence run on the bare minimum staffing levels, in airports that are quite often over crowded and in need of rebuilding.

I would imagine that most of you on the thread here are regular business pax so I would guess that you are flying a lot of shorthaul and at the peak times. So you will be passing through the airports when they are operating to full capacity. My sympathies to you all!!! :{

Like I said before, don't shoot the messenger I'm only doing my job.

As for the inconsistencies, 'tis life and there are plenty of jobs worths in the UK ready to pounce and assert a little authority. It makes 'em feel good about themselves.:ok: Humour them :eek:

6

And that is the rub, what the "current breed" of terrorists do is irrelevant, pre Sept 11 nobody had flown an airliner into a building. Terrorists are constantly looking for weak points in the system. It is important we do not give them opportunites by relaxing in key areas. As Captain it is my responsibility that everyone who boards the aircraft is supposed to be on it. That includes every groundstaff members' id being checked. I can only delegate that role to my crew, and in any case would prefer there to be more than one line of defence.

I would suggest that anyone who really gets bothered about showing their boarding pass on the aircraft maybe needs to relax a little.

Given that most of the airlines of Europe don't feel the need to check at the aircraft door, I would suggest that you need to relax a little.

F 3 G,
Quite chilled thanks. I will do my job as I am required to as a UK commander, what other countries' airlines do is quite irrelevant.

It would be interesting to hear from some european crew on this. They must have the odd occasion where someone does board the wrong a/c, if not then it is the UK that should be looking at why europe has a zero incidence rate.

If they do have the odd occasion it would be interesting to know what they do about it and how long it takes.

I would be horrified if the pax was just allowed to disembark and the flight were to carry on as normal, so the flight must incur a delay of some sort. Which justifies our system that prevents any delay no matter how short. We all know what folk think of a delay that could have been avoided.

6

Then perhaps you should qualify your comments "in the UK."

Another little Englander, I see.

:D

You're actually quite funny in a strange sort of way. ;)

....or is that strange in a funny sort of way? (This damn little english language always gets the better of me) ;)