Safety Brief - Is it compulsory to listen?
 

I saw the following statement made on the UK Guardian "Comment is Free" Blog today. And I wondered if this could be true?

It all sounds a bit much to me!

Personally I fly only freight, but I would be interested in what passenger captains would do if they heard their cabin crew issue such threats to passengers.

http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/...tolerance.html


I have been flying as pax on average about once a week, for years and NEVER listen to the brief, and would get really miffed if I were treated in such a manner.

Im sure if the Captain said there was an emergency you would be begging for the crew to go through the safety demo one more time! Are you one of the mobile phone/blackberry guys who always try and make yourself look important by having to press buttons and take calls? How would you feel if i came into your workplace and as you tried to have a meeting talked loudly and made phone calls bet you would be peed off. Iwould bet money that if it really came down to it, you dont know that emergency procedure as well as you think you do.

I,ve been an airline pilot for 30 years.I pay attention to the safety briefing always whenever travelling as a passenger even on aircraft types I know really well.Just as we always carry out a review of the rejected take off drill in the cockpit before every departure.The safety brief refreshes the drill in your mind and highlights the nearest exit to you for that particular flight.An accident with poor lighting ,smoke and confusion is not the time to start finding that out.Apart from all that its good manners to pay attention and show respect to someone carrying out their duty of looking after your welfare.I have enormous regard for the level of safety training my colleagues in the cabin have to undertake.Cabin crew well know who has paid attention you might find you get better service during the flight if you show an interest in this most important of their responsibilities.:ok:

No Marloe I would not. Because I already know it

So do many, many other pax. And flight crew who are on board as pax certainly know it!

yea course you do! ah!! your the know it all onboard always one

Yawwwwwwnn, Let the bitching begin

Try closing your eyes when you leave the aircraft next time, cos that what its like when the thing is full of smoke. The best you can hope for is crawling along the floor following the emergency lights to the exit, assuming you are proceeding towards it and not away from it.

Before every take off we go through an emergency brief in the flightdeck, it's an insult to our highly trained cabin crew if you cant be bothered to spend a couple of minutes watching theirs.

With regard to your quoted incident, I applaud the cabin crews actions. Passengers with books, newspapers and the like distract those who are trying to follow the briefing.

I suppose you also rush for the emergency exit row for the extra leg room.

Lord Lucan, do you know the safety demonstration for every airline and type of aircraft flying the skies? They are different!

Even if I position as a passenger I watch the demo. It's polite to watch the crew AND provides you with what you need to know.

I ALWAYS follow the same procedure when on the ground. I note the exits, look behind as well, and plan my escape. 'jump over those poeple in front, 'cos they are not listening, and won't know what to do, kick that big guy in the teeth because he won't know either. Etc. On the ground, I can do something to save myself. In the air, I can do nothing, so don't worry at all. I ALWAYS read the card, mainly because it encourages the guy next to meto do the same, otherwise they probably wouldn't bother.

I always listen and make a point of showing that i am, looking around cabin at doors etc nodding with humble thanks. It's amazing how the service improves if your spotted.:ok:

ps if mr bmw blackberry is on the phone,tutting and tipping your head back dramaticaly will only amplify your support for your fellow aviators/trixs

Lucan,I really reallly do hope one day when the unthinkable happens you are not in my way or I WILL GO OVER YOU. Yep, I also take note even when positioning on the same type of aircraft I fly for the very same reasons as all the others. Not to do so is Ignorant, stupid and just shows how much an a**ole you are:O

I cannot see how it is impolite to carry on quietly with one's own business. In my experience only about 10-20% of the pax watch the brief. Are we all being rude?

And just how is listening to the brief for the thousandth time going to help me find the exit or get the mask down?

If I am sitting by an emergency exit I read the instructions or, on the rare occasion when one is given, I listen to the personal brief given to pax sitting in these rows.

I can see this touches a nerve with some who need to fling insults. Why does my not listening to the briefing imply that "I would not know what to do?"
I have been a professional pilot for 35 years, I probably have a reasonable idea of what to do!

I say again: Just how is listening to the brief for the thousandth time going to help me find the exit or get the mask down?

Lord Lucan as professional flight crew you of all people should be setting an example to fellow passengers when travelling in the cabin.How do you expect to be treated when operating if you display poor attitude to another flight crews cabin colleagues.Respect is won by a profession not given by right.

Lord Lucan

You are either a fool or a wind up merchant, possibly both.

Even if one knows the aircraft backwards, one should pay attention 'pour encourager les autres.'

A large percentage of the pax are frequent flyers and ALREADY KNOW IT and do not bother to listen. This is the reality of the situation. Why should I "encourage" them?

I say again:

Just how is listening to the brief for the thousandth time going to help me find the exit or get the mask down?

How do you know when you never listen?

Besides, by ignoring the safety briefing, you have in effect relieved the airline of any responsibility they had for your safety.

Apart from being good manners, it is always a good excuse to check out the eye candy :)

AS far as Aviation Circles are concerned - Lord Lucan is an esteemed and ridiculous "Tosser of the First Order!!!"

If the stewardess has underarm hair and a moustache--yes

There is a legal requirement on the Captain to ensure that all of the passengers are suitably briefed, however there is no compulsion on the passenger to listen. All passengers are carried in accordance with the standard conditions of carriage which would almost certainly allow the Captain to offload or refuse carriage to any individual or group that he felt were refusing to comply with the legal requirements.

The first line of this quote is, , which probably sums up the overall accuracy of the rest of the article, so I would be inclined to take the article with a hefty pinch of salt.

The problem with safety briefings is that there is a balance between achieving the required level of information transfer without terrifying the individual, and as we all know the product is often fairly bland as a result. However in a real emergency it is often the case that the sudden onset of frightening and extremely high stress reality causes the human brain to, in effect, shut down a large part of the reasoning centres to concentrate on the necessary "fight or flight response". This has the effect of shutting out responses that are not already part of the short term memory process or that are naturally instinctive. This is why we as pilots brief before every take off and landing even though the items we brief on are already something we should know. In other words we are briefing the fact that there is a real possibility that in the next few minutes this scenario could happen for real.

Passengers often mock the fact that they really don't need to be told how to operate a seatbelt, however investigation has shown that in some emergency situations evacuation has been delayed by people wasting time trying to unfasten the seatbelt. That is the one they are instinctively used to.........in their car, where the buckle is down the side of the seat and not in their lap. Those who listened carefully to the briefing should have the advantage of having this information in the short term memory.

As a pilot it is quite astonishing that you do not listen to the briefing. You of all people should understand the importance of the short term memory refresher. Even though you fly freight, you should have the common courtesy to pay attention to the crew member demonstrating this information (where appropriate), and even if you still consider the information superfluous to yourself, it sets a very poor example to other passengers around you if you give the impression of not paying attention.

For what it may be worth, I know the briefing format as well (as do most crewmembers) but in an emergency I am particularly qualified to not only lend valuable assistance, but also to ensure I do not become an additional part of the problem. That is best achieved by listening carefully to the briefing and hopefully encouraging others to as well.

Lord Lucan
 

You claim to be an ATPL holder...tell me one thing - are you going to stop running through your checklists before your next take off because you've done them 1000 times before?? I suspect not...the cabin safety briefing is surely there for the same reason as the flight deck checklists...Also, as many others have said before me, its just basic common courtesy to allow the CC to go about their job without interruption and to let those who are sensible enough to watch/listen to the briefing do so.

Eveyyone should listen ?
 

e.g Some of the 737=8s the lifejacket is in the panel above your head and not under the seat.Just imagine you looking under yr seat to fine its not there.You need to have resepct:ok:

As a minimum it is common courtesy to listen to a briefing which is for the benefit of everyone on board.

The aircraft commander also has a legal obligation (for a UK registered aircraft) to ensure that passengers are adequately briefed (even if this is done on his/her behalf by a qualified crew member). The only way to ensure that his/her responsibilities are discharged is to make sure that everyone is paying attention. That is a 'reasonable step' in my book.

As others have said, if anyone who thought it unworthy to pay attention during the safety brief gets in my way during any emergency evacuation, I'll be walking over the top of them with no hesitation :ok:

I find it funny that as so many people seem to have heard the safety briefings a thousand times before and don't need to hear them again...that on all the flights I go on there still seem to be numerous people standing up with the seatbelt signs on, undoing their seatbelts whilst taxiing.....going to sleep without seat belts on etc etc. I annoyed a passenger next to me by refusing to let him stand up when we were flying through severe turbulence. When I pointed to the seatbelt sign...his response was "So?"

These people are often the ones who don't need to hear the safety brief again for the "1000th" time...and yet don't seem to feel as though it applies to them when parts of it are used on a "normal" flight. And then whose actions can compromise others.

What steams me most of all...and I mentioned this on another thread. The Air France incident in Toronto...which the report came out last week..made note that over 50% of passengers stopped to collect their personal belongings from the overheads before exiting the aircraft. Are these the same people who have heard the safety brief for the "1000th" time?? I seem to recall the briefings saying not to take personal belongings with you?

Lord Lucan ...if you are have been flying for 35 years...do you skip all preflight checks cos you have a reasonable idea of what to do? You must have done them over a thousand times? What changes from being pilot to being a passenger??

Double standards by passengers and crew alike it seems. For 2 minutes of a flight that can be anything up to 13 hours...we seem to be above something that is designed to provide information to help us in the event of something going wrong. And yet time and time again it is shown that passengers don't know about the seatbelt signs or hand luggage..or opening a compartment so nothing falls out etc etc etc. Sigh!!

Still if anything...I hope that at least in providing the briefing the airline is covered so if someone sues over something that went wrong which is talked about in the briefing the airline can say "Sorry tough luck!"

Not quite correct (calling all pilots please read the ANO)

The ANO states that you must obey any reasonable request or order given to you by the commander of an aircraft. What this means is that if the captain orders you to engage in a sexual act in the toilets you may refuse but if he asks you to listen and watch the safety briefing you are obliged by law to do so. ( I have been campaigning for years to get the former request written into law but have been told it is a load of cock)

My opening PA includes this briefing

"The cabin crew will shortly give you a safety briefing please listen and watch and give your full attention to the crew." (That is an order not a request)

Anybody who has not watched the briefing could be gulity of endangering the aircraft as they may slow down an evacuation. It is an offence at anytime to endanger an aircraft.

If a cabin crew member reported to me that xyz passenger had not looked or listened to the briefing technically I cannot fly.

As a matter of interest twas I that was responsible for that change. OK, so I am a big head!

As someone with an interest in what happens when things go wrong and why it happens, I do pay attention to the safety briefing, if only to confirm that it's the same as last time. I tend to confirm the nearest exits before taking my seat. I usually get to go through the safety card in great detail, explaining all the symbols and drawings to my young son who wants to know what they all mean.

When they do aircraft certification tests, are all the passengers briefed as per a normal briefing? If so, perhaps it would be interesting to brief half of them beforehand and not do an in-cabin briefing to simulate real life a bit better as half the passengers would be ignorant of what to do?

This part I find interesting


Again I link this to the Air France report as this is most recent...and I think is directly related to this topic. It has been mentioned on another thread that a group of passengers is suing various groups in relation to this incident.

Now granted the evacuation of the aircraft was done speedily and efficiently...and the cabin crew came out of this with great credit.

My question is....if the passengers who took their personal belongings with them were found to have ignored the safety briefing...and the briefing tells people not to take personals in the event of an evacuation...are they able to sue other bodies when their actions may have endangered others aswell?

Can you prove someone has not listened to the information?

Can I first of all compliment you on finding me interesting it dosnt happen very often, so my wife says.

More importantly can you prove some has UNDERSTOOD the safetly briefing. A Japanese passenger listening to a safety briefing will not probably fully understand it if they do not speak English. Also do not forget we sometimes carry people who are mentally impaired, (yes apart from the crew)
I would say as a non lawyer that you could sue someone for endangering an aircraft if they stopped to pick up personal belongings. The safety certificate given to a public transport aircraft which I believe means it can be evacutaed in 90 secs using all exits, is not based on picking up personal belongings but what do you call personal belongings, if I take my copy of 'Airline Babes' thats personal belongings, however if I try to collect my Double Base it could be a very different matter.

Yes they are briefed but of course they all know what they are going to do so are fully mentally prepared.

Take my advice always try and sit by an emergency exit, I always do.

At the risk of being pedantic, we have read the ANO. PPRuNe Radar has been kind enough to quote it above.

It says reasonable because clearly there are situations where you cannot ensure that an individual has listened or understood for any number of reasons. Young children, passengers with certain disabilities, passengers carried in "special" circumstances etc. The ANO does not state that a passenger must listen, only that the Captain has taken all reasonable steps to ensure the passengers have been briefed.

As I already stated in the previous post there are conditions that allow the Captain to refuse to carry any person that he feels is acting in contravention of the conditions of carriage and this would provide for such a sanction if it was deemed appropriate.

Unfortunetaly (and we all do it) that is a request and not an order, the use of the word "please" made it one.

Actually yes you can, provided you have taken all reasonable steps to ensure compliance. Again you have the sanction to remove a passenger prior to departure if that passenger is being willfully obstructive or indeed for any other reason you see fit, however the ANO| should be read for what it actually says and not for what you would like it to say.

In the interests of example to passengers reading this thread I'd like to add my name to the list of professional pilots who watch the briefing and read the safety card.
In the UNLIKELY event that it goes wrong, it's going to go wrong SPECTACULARLY. I will be in a state of shock and should have mentally rehearsed my post event actions.

I run through:
Where the doors are.
How they're opened.
Have a think about opening (Check outside for fire or obstruction, check in automatic, where's the manual inflation toggle - just not your day if you need to use that!)
Where am I in relation to the front, rear, wings?
Is floor level lighting fitted?
Where is my lifejacket stowed and does it feel as if there's actually one in there?
. . and a few other little bits and pieces.

SO, if captains with thousands of hours flying big jets consider it a good idea to pay attention, it may be worthwhile for everyone to have a look at what they're going to do.

Remember: it's still safer than your car :ok:

I fly frequently and, hands in the air, admit I was guilty of feigning interest in the safety drill. After all, the plane isn't going to crash, is it? And if it does, we're all burnt crispy persons anyway.

Last December, however, I flew with my partner from Bristol - Ivalo on one of these "visit Lapland and see Father Christmas on a daytrip" excursions. We don't have kids, it was just going to be an experience.

As the only two adults without children on the flight, we were seated in the emergency exit seats............loads of legroom, bargain.

Then the cabin crew supervisor came upto us just before takeoff and said, in hushed tones, "if we run into problems, we WILL need your assistance in evacuating the aircraft".

I can assure you, I've never listened more intently, then or now, to the safety drill.......

Well, I seem to hold an unpopular position here.

I will just make a few more points and then shut-up

Of course I perform check lists when I am the pilot. It is part of my professional duty to do so. I would say I am more particular about this than many of the FO’s with whom I fly. I find in general there is a tendency to recitation rather than really checking – for what it’s worth.

However, when I am a passenger, this is a different matter. Now I am a member of the public. I take responsibility for my own safety, and I base my actions on my assessment of risk. I know where the exits are without the briefing, because I look, And, lets face it, most passenger cabins are pretty standard.

To all those who seem to worry about air crashes, I would ask:

Do you wear a crash helmet while driving?

Why not. It is easy and pretty cheap and it will save your life more often than an obsessive interest in safety briefings.

Legal, compulsory, mandatory, ANO compliance blah, blah, blah...

It's just bloody appalling manners to disregard an aviation professional who is taking the trouble to explain how you might save your life and the lives of others around you, should the unfortunate moment arise. Any claims to ignore the briefing by fellow aviation professionals is surely bogus.

Well, I had 113 flights as a passenger in 2007 - on CRJ200, CRJ700, BAe146, AvroRJ85, B737, A300 and A319,320,321.

All are different. I always stop whatever I'm doing and watch the brief. Even though I can probably repeat the 'Sauerstoffmaske aus der Kabindecke' speech in my sleep, it is commonsense and good manners to stop and listen. I also read the card - because I don't want to have to remember whether it's a rotate and push, lift and push or other type of door opening if I need to get out in a hurry.

Mind you, the pursers do have a bit of dry humour at times - the theatrical pause when they say "..emergency exits, which are marked by the word......exit" does make me want to say "No ****, Sherlock".

"Right you lot. Sit down, shut up, strap in and listen. Don't annoy the girls, you'll be fed when we feed you and we'll get there when we do. Got that OK?"

I think the cabin crew play a part in how attentive the passengers are to safety announcements.
On a recent 738 flight, Sydney - Brisbane, the two (beautiful) female flight attendants demonstrated the safety equipment, as the male crewmember conducted the briefing "In the event that this flight turns into a cruise!, your life jackets are located under the seats" etc.
Believe me, there was no one playing with their blackberry's.

I guess I'm just awkward.

I always listen to and talk along with the safety briefing, check the life jacket is actually present (it's not unknown for them to have been nicked) despite having flown 80+ times last year.

It's only polite.

Even though we could be better off with a safety briefing before getting on the motorway from the airport - which is far more dangeorus than flying!

My top tip...when you get on, count how may rows you are away from the nearest exit. You may not be able to see them in an emergency but you can count them by touch. I do this religiously whenever I fly, bit OCD I know but who knows..may just save my life one day.

This subject has been done to death over and over again. OK, I do watch the Safety Briefing as a courtesy to the crew, but in actual fact I have already briefed myself before the demo has even begun. That's because if the $hite hits the fan I want to be prepared and I have a plan (well more than one, depending on the circumstances).

Reading comments on forums from crews advocating the wisdom and courtesy of paying attention to Safety Briefings, I am remimded the fact that one of the flights I regularly travel on always includes a positioning crew (in uniform) on board. On all occasions I have observed how they have continued to chat and joke with each other as the demo is given! What a great example to the rest of the pax that is!