Reclining seats send airline tempers soaring
 

Hello,

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070209/...lines_seats_dc

:)

Regards. http://photobucket.com/albums/v509/Bebermaur/th_bye.gif

:mad: I know it bugs me, at 6'3 any recline on the seat in front causes discomfort. The thing that really bugs me though is the lack of courtesy before reclining, people don't seem to ask they just do it! And when asked nicely if they wouldn't mind not reclining you either get ignored (pretending to be asleep) or pure arrogance and bloody mindedness! :ugh: :mad:

I totally agree and would personally prefer the airlines to fix the seatbacks in the upright position for short haul flights where the seat pitch is usually more restrictive than long haul.

BrummyGit,
Excellent idea!
Airlines: pay attention.

I know it bugs me, at 6'3 any recline on the seat in front causes discomfort. The thing that really bugs me though is the lack of courtesy before reclining, people don't seem to ask they just do it! And when asked nicely if they wouldn't mind not reclining you either get ignored (pretending to be asleep) or pure arrogance and bloody mindedness!
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I'm the same height. I usually have my legs locked into the seat back in front so that the seat cannot be reclined. After several attempts the person in front usually gives up. I can't help being tall. It wasn't my choice.

I only do long haul, rarely short haul. Oddly I feel dizzie and sick if I recline my seat, but perfectly OK in the upright position to sleep. I only choose to fly with airlines who advertise a 34" pitch.

The one with pure arrogance and bloody mindedness is you. Whilst I accept its polite to have the seat upright at mealtimes, passengers pay for a seat that reclines (except on Ryanair!) - what right do you have to try to deny them that right at other times? Too tall? Not the person in front's problem - if you can't fit into an economy seat with the one in front of you reclined, fly business class.

Andy

Shortarse.

BOFH

A tad unfair and discriminatory EastMids! The real issue here is that in their quest to make profits from the masses, airlines just pack too many seats in too little space. They are the guilty party in all this. I think the idea of no recline for Y seats is a good one. I've said it before and I will continue saying it, there should be industry regulations on minimum allowable seat pitch and perhaps the same for recline options.

May I suggest www.kneedefender.com (Although I cant seem to access the site right now) read about it here http://www5.cnn.com/2004/TRAVEL/04/04/bt.knee.defender/

Garth

i dont see the problem i am six one i pay for my seat and i have the right to use it as it was designed if you are a taller person go to the airport early and get a exit seat i was on 30 flights in 06 in every class 14 of the flights were transatlantic on one of my flights from bfs -ewr in economy on continental 757 we had our meal and after i put my seat back about 2 inches i went to sleep and about 1 hour later i started to get the knee in the back it went on for 10 minutes so i turned around and this this guy was no taller than me but he was fat he said hey assh..e put that seat forward i said touch the back of my seat again and i will put the assh..e outa u once we get through emmigration and that was that if you are flying economy get a exit or dry your eyes

Flying to New York last year, the minute the seat belt signs were off the women infront of me put her seat all the way back. Even when serving the meals her seat was still in the recline position. The FA even told her to put the seat up, then the min she had gone the seat went back again. When politely asking her to put the seat back just while we were eating she said that her company had not paid for her to go in business class. So was angry being in economy! LOL.

Yvonnelynch, it's not that you're not right but your attitude stinks! Read my post above. Don't take it out on the poor bloke behind you, take it out on the idiotic policy of the airline you fly on. Dismissing the tall guy simply by saying turn up early for an exit row seat is a dumb ill thought out statement. How many exit rows are there and in this day and age how many pax are in fact over 6 feet tall? How about a little courtesy instead of your brash macho agressive infantile attitude.

Its just courtesy to have the seat upright during meal services and all the flights I can think of that I've been on make an announcement to have the seats upright and the CC enforce this as they serve the trays.

But outside of meal times - what they person in front does with their seat is up to them. If they want to recline it, so be it. They are not making the seat do anything it isnt designed to do.

avman as far as my statements being dumb and ill thought out there is 12 exit seats over wing on the 757s i be on most of the time and 6 seats at the bulkhead and most longhaul airlines have online booking and better extra leg room seats available for a little extra i you can read u will see that the guy behind me started to knee the back of my seat i never put my seat back until after meal time and so in my normal brash macho agressive infantile way catch a grip sir !!

Its amazing how many conflicts I have on flights over reclined seat backs!!! To be honest, its usually the icing on the cake after the battle through checkin, security, boarding and then not being allowed have a smoke onboard!!! Some people just explode when the person in front puts back their seats. Id love to think all passengers are polite enough to tell the passenger behind them that they are about to recline the seat but to be honest, I dont think I have ever witnessed it!!!! All I can do is tell the passenger that he/she is entitled to recline their seat also as the passenger in front has every right to recline theirs (and its true, I cannot tell a passenger not to recline their seats during the flight.,...not even at meal times, I can just ask them to!!!).

But during the meal services Im usually proactive in asking everyone to bring their seats up and it always works...fortunatley the vast vast vast majority of people are understanding during meal times.

As a 6ft tall crew member myself I hate flying longhaul as a passenger. Its such an issue with me and I just wish the heads involved would learn that they would actually be doing well (and perhaps justify the fares they charge on my airline) if they just took a row or two out of the planes and gave everyone a little more room! Wishful thinking!

Anyone seen those new Cathay Y class seats....GREAT IDEA!!!! Anyone have any experience of it???

http://www.cathaypacific.com/cpa/en_...conomyclass#f5

Sorry Yvonne dear, your defence is flawed. Emergency rows are not allocated on line. Not everyone flies on B757s. I bet you there are more than 12 pax over 6 foot tall on any full B757 flight. I stick by what I said! And I say AGAIN, don't blame your discourteous fellow pax, blame the greedy couldn't-care-less-about-the-customers airlines!

avman dont dear me get ur facts right exit seats are available online 24 hours before dpt on most airlines i have sat in 16 a on continentals 757s at lest 10 times when flying coach look at seatguru .com u will see that is a exit seat! and if i felt the same about airlines as you i would take the bus

EastMids Quote:
or pure arrogance and bloody mindedness!

The one with pure arrogance and bloody mindedness is you.

if you can't fit into an economy seat with the one in front of you reclined, fly business class

Thanks EastMids I appreciate your response and that is exactly the arrogance that I am on about, you just don't care wether your actions affect others or not. I do all that I can to ensure that I get a seat where I don't encounter people like you or yvonnelynch, early check-in, online checkin, get to the airport early etc etc etc, I have been very fortunate that by doing some of these things I have secured my desired seat or better, however there have been occaisions where this has not been possible.

Another example of arrogant attitudes and bloody mindedness:

Flew easyJet LGW-AMS (was with a party so not my first choice of carrier), unfortunatly ended up at the back of the aircraft. After takeoff pax in front reclined seat to fullest extent, therefore causing me discomfort, at no time did he ask if I minded (I even asked that he not recline so far!), he therefore ended up with two knees digging into his back! About half way through the flight he goes to the toilet, upon his return, he sits back down again and does the same thing, only this time he asks me if I was OK, I of course told him that with his seat fully back it was causing me discomfort (solution return to upright position or at least meet me halfway!), his reaction was to simply turn around and ignore the problem, he therefore got my knees in his back again.

The simple lesson here is ask me if I mind and we can come to a mutual agreement (i.e half recline etc), don't ask me and I will make you as uncomfortable as me!:ugh:

Tightslot, looking at your age, like me you must have experience of Y travel 20-30 years ago. In those days reclining seats in Y were not an issue because the seat pitch was adequate. Over the years airlines have crammed more and more seats in their Y cabins in an attempt to maximise yield whilst retaining competitive fares. Fine, and as you point out, we have a choice. But that's not the issue here. What I'm simply trying to point out is that if airlines want to succumb to the commercial pressures of more seats less space then they should seriously consider the seat recline issue which does cause exactly what the title of this thread suggests! I'd say that the above responses have in fact confirmed this. Finally, a large proportion of travellers cannot afford C or F class. Is this sufficient reason for them to endure hours of discomfort from a reclined seat in Y. Where's the logic in this train of thought? If airlines want to provide Y pax reclining seats then they should be responsible enough to ensure that any recline does not impact on passenger comfort. Finally, just for the record, I always fly C class on flights of 2 hours or more AT MY OWN COST.

Bluejay
 

Quote
The simple lesson here is ask me if I mind and we can come to a mutual agreement (i.e half recline etc), don't ask me and I will make you as uncomfortable as me
Unquote

Agree with you 100%
At 6'4" I have more trouble than most (width is not a problem) in trying to be comfortable in seats on shorthaul. I think most large / tall people are usually aware of their size and take this into account in situations such as this. As a matter of course, I will always ask the person behind if they mind if I put my seat back and I have never had any problems.

But for the selfish and arrogant and those with no manners or consideration for others, (and there are some posters here who seems to fit this description, to be sure) who just jam their seat back onto my knees when there is absolutely zero inches between seat back and knees, then I have no intention of doing the splits just to accommodate them.

Oh Dear,
Yvonne, You are not one of this new ladies of the Celtic Tiger who feel that they can talk down to all and sundry now are you?

Im afraid your logic is very much flawed....not everyone flies on a 757, not everyone has access to the internet within 24hours of their flight, not everyone despite doing all they can will get the exit row or bulkhead and at the end of the day...even if you are on the exit row...you too will have some poor cretin sitting behind you when you decide to recline...but its clear you couldnt care less. I would love to see an airline introduce a policy whereby the exit rows are kept only for those of 6ft or more however many would consider this discrimination without realising that putting a 6ft person into a normal seat just as discriminating!!!

I would actually state that the problem these days is not that the airlines have reduced the seat pitch so much as people are just becoming ruder and ruder to each other then they used to be, being Irish I notice it more and more in my country. But I wont preach here, not the right place for it!

Oh, and Yvonne dear, A few may do but many don't. It seems that your vast wealth of experience and expertise is drawn exclusively from travel with Continental Airlines on their B757.

In general I have no problems with people reclining seats in front, and as long as they put them up for meals, it's no real problem. I have short legs, so have no problem with the leg room, but too many years supporting the UK brewing industry means it's not always possible to get the table down with the seat down in front.

The only time I've had a problem was when I was unlucky enough to be in the back row of a 737, where the seats didn't recline, and the tw@ts infront reclined theirs so I couldn't even hold a book in front of me. However, my wife going to the loo every 5 minutes and banging their seats got the point across (and it was only 3 hours of discomfort)

APADDYINUK and AVMAN read tightslots post its pretty simple u get what u pay for in this world and this is not the place 2 get personal.grow up

Excellent retort Yvonne, for one who said:
I bow to your maturity, excellent punctuation, grammar and spelling :hmm:

what did i say about getting personal my spelling might be crap but whats that got to do with reclining seats ??

I think he was referring to the irony of your "grow up" comment!!!
I think if you reread my last posting you will appreciate the grown up approach I took to it and perhaps even learn a thing or two!
I look forward to what will no doubt be a delightfully colourful response!

P.S....Tightslots opinion is only one rule of thought albeit one I actually do agree with. However is that an excuse to rude to your fellow passenger? I think not!

From the article linked in the first post - "Feeling outraged as that airline seat crashes back into your knees, taking sleep or that breakfast coffee with it? You're not alone."

Rubbish!

Any airliner I have flown on have seats that pivot off the same joint as the food tray. That means that the food tray does not move as it is not attached to the reclining part of the seat! It also means that leg room is not affected unless your knees are in such a position that they are higher than the pivoting joint.

True, having a seat reclined does bring the top of the seat closer to the passenger behind, and is not always a comfortable proposition for some passengers. However, basic courtesy and manners should be observed by all passengers. Wanna talk about bad manners? Kicking or punching another passengers seat back is exceptionally bad manners in my book. It is not a clever, amicable, or adult manner in which to deal with an issue.

Bear in mind, as already mentioned, that on some routes people specifically choose carriers with reclining seats, often paying higher prices for the privilege than might be available elsewhere. Personally, I find sleeping in upright seats very uncomfortable. Predominantly working evenings and nights and travelling days make sleep, and therefore reclining seats, important to me on aircraft. Passengers who find reclining seats limits their comfort would do well to think about choosing carriers without reclining seats if that option is available to them. If that option is not available to them, try asking politely.

i am bored with the pair o ye .. game over, ball bust!!!

Mine are, as are those of many tall people. In order to use the tray, I do need to move into a slightly unnatural position.

However, I do recognise that others have the right to use their seats. I would say that the only solution is common courtesy. To everyone, before reclining your seat, look behind you to see if knees are present. If they are, either recline very slowly, or tell the person behind you plan to do so. They can, as can I, move into another position to allow you to do so.

I also think there's no need for short-haul recline at all, though, just as it isn't provided on most British trains, and that all airlines should copy Ryanair and EasyJet's newer planes by not providing it at all on flights of a couple of hours (let's say anything a normal two-class 737 or A319/320 would be used on).

Neil

Good thread!
 

Loved the Cathay seat recline idea, all airlines should follow suit. Great way to calm easily frayed tempers. There's enough tension and irritations on flights (long-haul especially) so one less conflict is a welcome change.

However, I thought the knee-defender gadget, while clever, is just a sh1tfight waiting to happen.

There's nothing worse than a discourteous, self-centred passenger. While tall people may think it's not cricket to recline without the person in front first checking for knees behind them/warning passenger behind them in advance of the oncoming recline/coming to an amicable halfway-house arrangement with person behind, similarly, it is not cricket for tall people armed with a knee-defender to not discuss it with the person in front before they decide to use it.

As others have said, if a seat reclines, a passenger should have the option to use it. If a tall person removes that option by way of a knee-defender before showing the person in front the same courtesy of discussing it first, that makes him no better than the person in front who does not discuss things with the person behind before he reclines.

In reality, I hope the airlines see sense and ban these gadgets if they see them in use on their aircraft. They will only cause more problems.

I understand it's frustrating for tall (and short, pedantic) folk to be battered by seat-backs but using a knee-defender to increase one passenger's comfort will also serve to deny someone else of theirs, so this daft knee-defender will only ever be bought by similar, self-centred, discourteous, and above all hypocritical passengers trying to get their own back. The knee-defender will only serve to increase tensions between passengers.

The airlines (and their ever-decreasing seat pitching policies) will never admit blame for creating the short vs tall/can I recline or can't I recline arguments, but it really doesn't matter, especially if you are caught up in a situation like this yourself. You just want it to be resolved so you can 'enjoy' your flight. It just takes a bit of decency, consideration, calm attitude and a bit of give and take to resolve the situation. And if a compromise cannot be met, or your fellow passenger is being difficult or aggressive, call Cabin Crew, and let them mediate to help get the situation resolved.

I can't stand selfishness from airline passengers. Makes my blood boil. My MIL is the worst. On a flight from Perth-HongKong she embarrassed the hell out of my poor wife the entire trip. She committed the cardinal sin of reclining on the guy behind while he was still eating, := and she also managed to continually piss the guy off in front of her for good measure too. Whenever she (frequently) needed the loo, she grabbed the back of his headrest to haul her very-firmly wedged fat arse out of her seat, making him dip violently backwards every time. Poor chap must've had the patience of a saint because each time she did it she also grabbed and pulled his hair with her fingertips and he only ever quietly moaned about her to his wife! MIL was completely oblivious, my wife was absolutely mortified. On her return home, rather than telling me all about her holiday, my wife ranted about my MIL's embarrassing, non-existant airline passenger etiqette instead!

Lucky I wasn't on the flight, I'd've given her a right (quiet) mouthful, bloody vacant old fart. Sorry for the thread drift but I do feel better now. Why are MIL's such a massive pain in the arse, even more so when you're stuck on a frigging plane with them?! :*

The Cathay seat might not infringe on the space behind when reclined. But as the seat pan moves forward so does your knees. I can see people moaning already.

Anyway, I completely agree with TightSlot. If you are not happy with a product stop buying it. To expect others to give up part of the product they have purchased in order to improve yours, is, and let's be honest, selfish.

:ugh:

Nearly all of you continue to discuss this as a ME (wanting to recline) v YOU (not wanting me to recline) debate. The ME brigade call the YOU brigade selfish and vv. Then we get the easy copouts: "catch the bus" & "don't buy the product" chucked in. The message I'm trying to promote is that YES if an airline provides a seat that reclines you should be entitled to recline it to its maximum, but equally NO this feature should not infringe on basic passenger comfort. I think that's a pretty fair and simple compromise.
You're all too busy defending your "right to recline" v "knees in the back" corners to see that the real culprit in all this is quite simply the airline! So stop getting at one another and focus on complaining for both sides of this issue directly to the airlines.

I think the "Knee Defender" has been banned by many airlines, anyway.

It has in the USA where it started I believe - causing too many punchups:*

Sorry for all you six footer plus pax out there but I agree with the "right to recline brigade" except during meals. If I was six feet plus I certainly wouldn't fly economy longhaul and I wouldn't fly at all if I couldn't afford a better seat pitch ticket.

i agree with tightslot and yvonne lynch almost everyone will know at the time of booking the airlines seat pitch so if you go cattle class dont be bitchin when a seat goes back!! you get what you pay for .

:confused:

Nowhere in the airline's advertising blurp do I see "when travelling in economy you may be subjected to hours of agonising discomfort should the passenger in front of you wish to recline their seat. This is what you paid for".

Give me a break :ugh:

And then dont start argueing like little children when it does happen!

economy is all there is 2 it dry up