Business Class Pax
 

Hmmm and how would the four people who had paid the appropriate business class fare feel when a coachload of people from economy are upgraded for free.....None to happy methinks! In order to preserve the integrity of the premium product free upgrades are a no no under most circumstances...and certainly in this case of outright disobediance of legitimate and reasonable instructions from the crew. I also wonder if the aircraft had APU or Ground Power running? odds are that it may have been 100 degrees outside but it was somewhat less on the inside.
A four hour delay is inconvenient but far worse things have happened, sounds like these pax were totally out of order....
I personally believe that the charge of endangering an aircraft is about right, because if pax are not carrying out legitimate instructions from cabin crew...who is to know what other instructions they might ignore....please be seated because of turbulence/landing etc...no smoking in toilets etc etc...For the aircraft to be completely safe it needs to be in the command of its crew both flight deck and cabin....
I hope the pax concerned get a significant 'slap' on the wrist...a few days in jail might make them re-think their view of an economy class airline service!! luxury I am sure compared to the clink!

I DO NOT CONDONE disruptive pax, whether irate or drunk: nor do I suggest letting the great unwashed dictate which Class they sit in. Generally, I find most pax compliant. I do not know the facts of this case other than a 4 hour delay before t/o at Islamabad in 100 deg heat. Doors open?
Presumably pax did not invade First until en route - otherwise off-load.
What made conditions worse? Pax tend to settle once on their way.
14 disruptive pax at 35,000ft, most? pilots would divert and off-load asap.
Presumably they settled down in their newly-acquired seats. Why were they not happy with the ones allocated?

1. o/n charter to Corfu t/o delayed 1 hr, flight crew 'problem' Corfu closed on approach - fog. Diverted to Brindisi 4am. Held on aircraft until 11am without food or water. Captain finally convinced the Italians to let us in to the Terminal to avoid a mutiny. Corfu opened mid morning but Greek ATC delays and flying hours meant we reached Corfu after 25 hours. Only the crew 'blamed' the weather. Mutterings of "if we had taken off on time" were heard along with observations about the parentage of some Greek & Italian officials.
2. Full BA econ long-haul o/n bulkhead seat so did not recline. Woman in front insisted on full-recline. Angle meant I could not view the in-seat screen & my knees were jammed against her seat. After some pleading I was allowed to find another seat - in the same Class! Econ plus was virtually empty.

As regard ticket prices - the latest game on the lo-cos is find the pax who paid the highest and lowest price

Having read all of the above, it just makes me very glad that I am now flying freighters.

My 2 cents. Consider how the genuine first class pax would feel, knowing that they had paid full whack for their seats but 14 EY pax are now getting the same luxury ride for the price of an EY fare and a bit of shoulder barging.

Yes, it is endangering (at least potentially) the safety of the aircraft and yes the 14 errant pax have disobeyed a lawful command of the Captain.

I like the idea muted above of explaining the situation to them and giving them the choice of pay up or be arrested on arrival.

I would caveat all I have written by stating that I have never paxed on the airline mentioned and would expect EY to be of a standard commensurate with the ticket price. If that were not to be the case then the airline are (imho) inviting trouble.:ok:

That's the crux, as I see it. The commander of an aircraft has legal authority over all on board - even at the lowliest level. As my PPL instructor remarked, albeit in his jocular manner: "When you're in command, BE in command. If you tell your pax to sing, they have to sing!" My preflight checklist now includes auditions... ;)

Should people choose to ignore the PIC's instructions, I'd "hope" this would equate to endangering the aircraft. I'd like to see convictions on this one; no heavy penalties but a message well sent. In it's absence, there'd be dangerous implications.

Maybe we need bulkhead doors between Economy and Business... :E Failing that, give the self-upgraders all the trappings of J - as that's what they're about to be invoiced for. Chances are, after a few drinks they'd be paying out like fruit-machines to avoid the handcuffs. :ok:

Actually it does happen quite often on a train, especially when one's been cancelled or the seat reservations have been screwed up, and there are too many passengers for standard class.

However the difference in service and price between train first and standard class is not so great as it is on a plane, so this makes it more acceptable; and there are generally lots of first class areas on a train (e.g. the separate carriages) so you can still keep the fully paid up first class people separate.

So I agree that it's not really on for economy passengers on a plane to upgrade themselves to biz or first class.

That said, I generally pick Continental over BA on the transatlantic flights I take, and a key reason I do that is BA's hopeless upgrade policy. I've quite often been on a BA flight with a full economy cabin but an empty business and premium economy cabin. In these circumstances, since no paid-up business passengers would be affected (if there are any, move them to first) by cheaper-ticket passengers invading their cabin, it would do BA a lot more good in repeat business opportunities if they would let a few regulars and respectables move up to business or even premium economy.

If you went to a car dealer and bought a Ford Fiesta would you expect them to give you a Mondeo because they had some left?

Its well known what flights have high economy/low business loads if upgrades were just done "because it was a bit full" down the back noone would pay Business fares its protecting your market.

There was a lengthy discussion on upgrades recently here. But I don't think Hotel Mode's comparison is fair - the car dealer can sell the Mondeo to another customer with deeper pockets, but BA can't sell the Club seat once the flight has left the gate.

Bottom line, if I simply must be in C, I'll buy a C ticket, but if I've made the decision to travel Y, and I have a choice between airline A where there's a policy of no upgrades and airline B where I've a sporting chance of an upgrade, guess which one I'll pick? (All other things being equal - which they never are in the real world!)