Heathrow security
 

Is it still taking literally hours to get through LHR T4 security? I went out on Feb 13: arrived at T4 at 1005, checked in at First Class (Gold cards are useful) and then spent until 1225 getting through security. The queue was
enormous stretching out of the building into the marquee, and even out of that. Security was no different to usual though. A colleague going through T1 that day had just as long a wait.

Strange thing is that there doesn't seem to have been anything in the newspapers about it. It seems BAA are blaming the DfT, but in fact, if BAA were anything like efficient, they'd have enough security people to keep the queues more manageable. They can do it at ORD, PHX and so on!

I ask becasue I've got a flight on the 27th at 1745 from T4: I'm currently aiming to get there by 1315 in the hope this will be long enough......

Doesn't sound like much fun, Radeng.

I went through T1 last week - expecting the worst, I arrived with three hours' leeway, took the humble Biz Class check-in :ouch: but inadvertently went through the green line for security. It took fifteen minutes. Must've been my lucky day. Still fifteen minutes wasted, though.

Better luck this time!

BOFH

The BAA recently introduced the need for laptops to be removed from bags prior to security. Very much a la TSA. Lots of people are still getting to grips with this new requirement and yes, queues are much longer as a result. At Terminal 1 recently, I've noticed all of the machines open and operating with lots of staff on hand but people are showing up at the machines without laptops at the ready.

If each person take a minute to remove their laptop, stow it in a tray and then replace the bag on the belt, that's a lot of extra time being taken.

I think things will ease off again when people realise this is a requirement and are prepared in advance.

T4 still bad 10 days ago, dunno after that.

But my two pennies worth
a) I was nice and early, watching a steady stream of passengers being jumped in front of us by the queue combers because they were late, eventually resulting in myself having to be queue jumped an hour later. Total and utter farce.....

b) Why doesnt one person go up the queues and TELL people to get ready

c) even if (b) were to occur there aint enought security points for the number of pax at T4.

At T4, the queue combers were in the marquee, not when you got inside. Which was where they were needed........

BAA must stand for 'B******r All Aviators!' (or would be aviators)

Still, once they recognise that the shops aren't doing very well and the shops pull out, doubtless they'll bitch at DfT. DfT must stand for something like 'Department for Totalitarianism'.

It's enough to make you go by Eurostar.or is that what they are intending?

I forgot to mention.........
Take your lap top out of your bag before you get to security. So how many hands do people have? When I take the computer with me (which I hate doing but often have to), I then have to carry a computer, the carry bag, my walking stick, take my overcoat and jacket off and carry them.......... Is there a table available (as they do in the US) so you can start getting all your stuff into the plastic trays when you're about 5 people from the machine? Of course not!
Because BAA and Dft are a load of useless idiots! And they have no way of detecting items such as ceramic knives anyway. Regardless of political correctness, they need to start using profiling.
BTW, what's the situation for the Scotsman forced to undo his belt, have his kilt fall to the ground and be stood there, indecently (depending upon one's point of view and the Scot in question) exposing himself?

They want the bare laptop to go through the scanner? Hopefully there is a tray on offer to protect the laptop?

Checking the BAA website they say "screened seperately". Hopefully this does not involve plunging a bare £1500 laptop into thier scanner.

^ I don't think the whole tkaing your laptop out the bag is the REAL reason - apparently BAA were/are on a go-slow due to the job losses coming soon and the possible take over. I've not seen the huge queues for a few days now - i think the whole thing has blown over.

The queues were at thier worst just when it was announce about the job losses in Skyport....a member of BAA actually told me they were on a go slow!

That's good if it is dying down. I'm about to launch on a hectic month of travel :sad: in which LHR T3 and 4 Feature frequently. I'll report how it goes.

Can anyone explain why we need to remove our laptops from bags and have them scanned seperately? This has been normal procedure in German airports for as long as I've been flying through those airports, but I've never understood it there either!

Heathrow just sucks. The people in charge have clearly forgotten it's supposed to be an airport.

Indeed they were and you're absolutely right that this could be contributing quite majorly to the delays. Infact, they have been on go-slow at the airside vehicle entry points for a while now, too.

Each time I report for duty and go on the bus to the aircraft side, I always find myself and the crew sitting for close to 15-20 minutes waiting to get through the checkpoint - something that used to take no longer than 5 minutes.

Good thinking!

I don't see them working any slower. The problem, just from watching the mess, is people now have to unload their laptop and put it in a separate tray. This slows things down for several reasons

1) There is nowhere to easily unload your laptop. People are doing it shuffling along, or just do it right in front of the x-ray machine and that takes time and holds up the traffic flow.
2) They now have another item of luggage to put through the x-ray machine and look at, and then pack at the other end. An empty bag and a laptop obviously take longer to put through than a single bag containing a laptop. There is nowhere to put your luggage back in one piece (a shop is in the way), so you do it on the security thing at the end of the xray machine and that holds things up.

Somebody needs to go to America and see how to do it properly. There are clearly insufficient security resources and space allocated to security at LHR to do the job efficiently. Somebody should tell BAA that if we are queuing up for security clearance it means we cannot shop, maybe that would get somebody to do something.

What happens when a rule comes in that we have to take our shoes off? The place is going to come to a halt, they just don't seem to think about things proactively.

Is it better at other UK airports? I only ever see LHR, but I could use Manchester if it was less hassle.

Had a very good experience at Stansted on a busy sunday afternoon, where security was quick, thorough, efficient and extremely friendly. Guess what? They don't seem to think that all pax are potential terrorists and they actually give you the impression that they're happy to see you...

In Japan it gets better. If you are flying domestically you have to remove the laptop before screening, but if you are flying internationally it is not required. Go figure!!

After a recent arrival at Terminal 3 passport control with the European channel being miles long, I asked an Immigration Officer why they no longer waved Brits through.
Security is not the only area to increasily test your patience as the Home Office has informed its Immigration officers to swipe all European passports because of increased Europe wide security, people trafficking etc, with phase two seeing CCTV imaging as passengers disembark from aircraft and phase three involving European nationals being fingerprinted and photographed in Immigration halls. Me thinks we are now the US!

1984(Big brother) is a reality!

Aaaaarggh!! Wretched LHR again.

I pass through LHR on average twice a year on home leaves and business trips and can concur that things are getting worse (from an already low base). I think this is just another example of where the management of LHR is woefully lacking in its provision of resources for the traffic it handles.

In this case, there are three points to consider:

1) There are simply not enough scanning teams/scanners.
In most Asian airports, there is normally about one team/scanner for every 4 gates, which means it is unusual for more than one planeload of SLF to be put through one scanner and security team at a time. In Singapore, KL and Jakarta, there is one scanner per gate and the teams are put there when there is a departure from that gate, with the same net effect as above. How many gates are served by each team/scanner in LHR???

2) In LHR, the whole departure lounge is a “sterile” area, which I believe is the same as the USA. In Asia (except Hong Kong and Japan), it is usually only the gate holding area that is “sterile”. Personally, I don’t agree with this “whole departure lounge” sterile approach. For one thing, it leads to people having to eat their lunches with bendy plastic knives and forks. For another, I can’t believe that a containment area that big can be sealed effectively enough. And of course, you inevitably have to pass through a bottle neck to get to the departure area (my apologies if I have missed a past pprune thread about this?)

3) It has been compulsory to remove laptops from bags in Australia and New Zealand for at least two years. In those locations, the system works extremely well. I have passed through security in Auckland, Sydney, Melbourne and Brisbane in the last year and have not been delayed by more than a couple of minutes at security. It has been professional, thorough, polite and above all, QUICK. LHR need look no further than down under for an example of how to do this.

As for LHR in general, I can only do what I did in January, as I crawled in my car for an hour in a queue to get though one of those stupid road tunnels - shout at the top of my lungs in frustration “GET YOUR &*%$# ACT TOGETHER!”

^ Sounds like you've not been to LHR for a while!

I was eating airside yesterday with my metal cutlery. It's been that way for ages!

I think having airside areas is better than just having the gates "sterile" as you call them.

It's hard enough getting people to go through departures as it as with all the 50 family and friends they bring along. Imagine that at a gate when you're trying to board? Ridiculous.

As much as i joke about the BAA, i find their security very effective to the point where they are sometimes a bit anal - but it makes me feel safer!

I think the gate method wins. All the most efficient airports I can think of all use scanners at the gate. No non passengers can get though immigration / departure control so you don't get friends and family milling around. Personally if I'm going to be held up be security I'd prefer it to be in sight of the gate - the flight is unlikely to bugger off without you if you are standing in a line with all the other passengers... Much more controlled and civilised.

My current fave transfer point, PRG, has security at the gate and it works very well indeed.

LHR is a dogs dinner, in fairness a lot of the infrastructure does come from another era, but its a sh*te place to connect through.

As a matter of interest, does anyone have any statistics as to how many pax miss flights as a result of delays in processing them through the airport and what proportion of flights is delayed as a result? It must be a nightmare for an airline to be say, a dozen SLF short at the gate and not knowing where to look to find them.

Take the point about the cutlery, striperalla, (haven't eaten there for a while :yuk: ) but this fact can't have been communicated to all the airlines who still use the bendy stuff when coming into LHR. Other airports have either relaxed this requirement for airlines, or never implemented it in the first place (like Singapore).

As for the gate vs centralised security, I would suggest that you probably haven't travelled through an airport that uses the "gate" method lately either - touche!

Travelled out of T1 on Wednesday, queues were a nightmare but in fairness only took 3/4 of an hour to get through security. Having read this thread before I left I was expecting the worst and thus was mentally prepared so amused myself by "people watching". Problem was as the queue extended in a snake out downtowards BMI check in desks BA passengers were leapfrogging and gaining a good 10 minutes or so. We Brits hate Q jumpers but lack the ability to complain, some of the comments were priceless but all muttered under the breath. Also lots of "I'll never fly out of here again" the predictable "this is a joke". All made the extra time pass very quickly for me.
To add some more it was an interesting trip as BA utilised a 757 for the flight to DUS with all of 58 passengers! (suspect return was booked out). Travelled back today and we landed a little late but it still took me more time from disembarking to driving out of Parking Express than it did check in and fly back from DUS - baggage took forever!
Living in N London I had got used to flying Luton-Dortmund and is definately my preferred route - nowt to do with the carrier but the whole LHR experience, including of course the M25!

Only 3/4 hour? That's outrageous. In certain organised airports, I've been through and onboard in that time. I wonder what the cost in lost productivity is in all this hanging around?

It seems that BAA don't care, and for some reason, BA and the the other airlines aren't making a big public fuss. If they would only moan publicly.... I'll be using LHR again in a couple of weeks, so I'll see how bad it is. If it's as bad as last time, I'll try writing to my MP - he might be persuaded to ask a PQ of the Minister for Transport, which might stir things up a bit. Next Monday, I'm purposely avoiding LHR by going from Bristol......

I've often wondered where the airlines were in all this. I did once write to SIA and point out that T3 was letting them down. I got a response back to the effect that they were contstrained by the space and facilities available. That was about five years ago and it seems very much worse now.

In the UK/Europe, policy varies with laptops. sometimes in, sometimes out. On some occasions I get it out, only to be told not to. I recently asked, at security, and was told, it depends how thick the case is that the laptop is in. That is, if it contains many other items on top of the laptop, then it may need to come out.

As regards security at any airport, what they need is more staff.

I have said it before, if everyone at LHR was 'ready' with laptop out and coat in hand, all that would happen is staffing numbers would be cut. The queue would till remain.

It's about maximising profits see...

And as long as the expectations of the average user are as low as they are in the UK the airports will get away with it. The users must rise up, make noise and say no before this will get any better.

candoo - just for your info an airline doesn't base its aircraft types solely on load factors! LHR is particularly complex and can sometimes simply be based on using whichever aircraft is available for the slot at that time. Eg a 767 arriving from LIS may be the next a/c immediately available in the right place for a MAD with only 55 passengers booked on it.

Obviously airlines try to operate types suitable for expected loads, but that is not feasible 100% of the time. Another factor is cargo load. BA's Tokyo services are hardly ever 100% full to warrant 2 daily 747-400s on the route, BUT the cargo revenue far outweighs an aircraft full of economy passengers! It sometimes means there is a heavy weight restriction on the route so to the passengers it seems as if the flight is empty, but little do they know the hold is full of valuable, high paying cargo! Food for thought.

I think that the basic problem is that BAA know that you're pretty well stuck with them, so no matter how bad Heathrow is, by avoiding it you'll only end up at one of their other shambles.
Maybe something should be done to break uo their position of virtual monopoly.
What annoys most is seeing only a few of the potential lines manned, with huge queues. More profit for BAA, more misery for their poor victims.
I too don't understand why the airlines don't object strongly, it's ridiculous that the airport passage often is longer than the flight.

Only just read this thread however back to Laptops, three weeks ago took my laptop through MAN T1 security, it remained in it's case and was not questioned.
Same at AGP last week for the return, although had to remove essential belt there !
My best trip ever through as a SLF, only took about 15 mins, can take longer as staff !

Snooky [PEDANT]There is nothing 'virtual' about it - it IS a monopoly of the three major London airports. The quantity of traffic of LTN + LCY is insignificant by comparions. [/PEDANT]

The present UK govt is never going to tackle it. One can only hope that something like this on the BBC today may start things moving.

But I doubt it. BAA is a cash cow and other operators have learnt their tricks and are repeating them.

Just as an aside thru T1 Domestics yesterday, and noted that some people's laptops weren't being screened separately. Did however note the increase in signs and the space given to pax to unload their coats/laptops/etc before the scanner.

Jordan

Last week, positioning on Air Canada @ LHR T3, two staff were working the queue before security, asking about laptops, and then handing out a clear plastic bag for the laptop to be placed in, which I did. I have to say that I was rather impressed.

Laptop removal now seems to be a standard at most airports through which I position: I remove mine now as a matter of course.

I can't see how slowing down security helps BAA profits, surely the opposite is true. Pax have a fixed time between check in opening and boarding the flight so the more time spent in the queue, the less time spent in the airside shops and bars which do contribute to BAA income. Seems like an own goal to me.

That's a very good point.
Maybe if someone from BAA sees this they'll suggest paying to keep the security machines operational so that their core business of providing shopping facilities is maximised. :hmm:

Lol no but i work at LHR and have never, EVER had a passenger been late due to getting through security. Shopping? Yes. Fallen asleep at on the chairs? Yes. Security? No.

I simply wouldn't want the BAA at my gate interferring with everything. They do enough of that as it is!!

T3 yesterday rush hour. Approx 10 minutes to get through the non fast track.

Don't worry guys - read on BBC text business news that the Spanish (Grupo Ferrovial) have put in a bid for BAA. That should sort things out!!!!

It is not just security screening. In T4 at passport control you now you have to stand behind the line until you are called forward. They have just introduced a single queue, which means the hold point is even further from the desk. So the staff (same number as before) spend roughly half a shift looking at their nails waiting for people to walk up to them.

It is a measure of how low our expectations are that we tolerate Heathrow.