and still they don't get the message!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: southern england
Posts: 1,650
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
and still they don't get the message!
From the BBC(14/3):
"A teenager who jokingly told airline check-in staff he had a gun in his luggage has been barred from flying with classmates to Lanzarote. Sufyan Sadiq, 16, from Peterborough in Cambridgeshire, made the claim when he was asked routine security questions at Gatwick Airport on Thursday morning. He was not allowed on the JMC flight to Arrecife, but instead took a later flight with a different airline and joined his group from Stamford College that evening.
A spokesman for JMC said the airline had adopted a "zero tolerance" policy after 11 September and voided the tickets of passengers who made such comments.
He said: "We will not tolerate any statements which could put passengers' lives at risk, even though it may have been said as a school joke.
"No one knew for certain that the boy was not telling the truth until his bags had been searched.
"Other passengers were checking in and heard the boy's statement.
"Such remarks cause distress."
Stamford College, which organised the trip for 20 students and three teachers, said it would investigate the matter once Sufyan had returned. School marketing manager Jayne Olney said: "It is a prank in one respect, but with very serious implications which the college totally deplore."
Gatwick Airport teminal manager Andy Rozumski said such jokes caused distress to other passengers.
"A lot of people make comments like that, then afterwards, when questioned, they realise the seriousness and fall back on saying it's only a joke."
He said all such comments were reported to the police, who would what action to take.
"A teenager who jokingly told airline check-in staff he had a gun in his luggage has been barred from flying with classmates to Lanzarote. Sufyan Sadiq, 16, from Peterborough in Cambridgeshire, made the claim when he was asked routine security questions at Gatwick Airport on Thursday morning. He was not allowed on the JMC flight to Arrecife, but instead took a later flight with a different airline and joined his group from Stamford College that evening.
A spokesman for JMC said the airline had adopted a "zero tolerance" policy after 11 September and voided the tickets of passengers who made such comments.
He said: "We will not tolerate any statements which could put passengers' lives at risk, even though it may have been said as a school joke.
"No one knew for certain that the boy was not telling the truth until his bags had been searched.
"Other passengers were checking in and heard the boy's statement.
"Such remarks cause distress."
Stamford College, which organised the trip for 20 students and three teachers, said it would investigate the matter once Sufyan had returned. School marketing manager Jayne Olney said: "It is a prank in one respect, but with very serious implications which the college totally deplore."
Gatwick Airport teminal manager Andy Rozumski said such jokes caused distress to other passengers.
"A lot of people make comments like that, then afterwards, when questioned, they realise the seriousness and fall back on saying it's only a joke."
He said all such comments were reported to the police, who would what action to take.
You say: "and still they don't get the message!". While of course I agree that it was a stupid 'joke' and the remark should not have been made, he was a sixteen year old kid, probably on his first trip without his parents and therefore the first time he had personally been asked the security questions. While those of us who work in the industry all the time are all too aware of "the message" not to joke about this subject, it isn't widely known among the very occasional and first-time pax, as evidenced by the number of times this happens. Exactly where can such pax be expected to get "the messsage", especially a kid?
I think that some form of 'caution' should preface the security questions, either printed on or with the ticket, or on a notice on the check-in desk, with the notice being brought to the passenger's attention before the questions are asked.
Incidentally, and with reference to this incident, I've always wondered what would happen if the answer to the question: "Did you pack the bag yourself?" was given as: "No, my Mum did".
I think that some form of 'caution' should preface the security questions, either printed on or with the ticket, or on a notice on the check-in desk, with the notice being brought to the passenger's attention before the questions are asked.
Incidentally, and with reference to this incident, I've always wondered what would happen if the answer to the question: "Did you pack the bag yourself?" was given as: "No, my Mum did".
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: southern england
Posts: 1,650
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't know HJ. It is difficult to believe that anyone, including this 16 year-old, cannot be aware that the world of air travel has changed after 11/9/01.
If it really was his first trip away, then I would have thought that he would have been slightly cautious of doing anything that might be "wrong". Joking to people in authority is usually done by people who are over-confident .
Next time your car is stopped by the police, why not tell them that there is a body in the boot, that you have just left the pub, and ask them if they would like to sample the powder you have in a little bag. How they will laugh!
If it really was his first trip away, then I would have thought that he would have been slightly cautious of doing anything that might be "wrong". Joking to people in authority is usually done by people who are over-confident .
Next time your car is stopped by the police, why not tell them that there is a body in the boot, that you have just left the pub, and ask them if they would like to sample the powder you have in a little bag. How they will laugh!
Last edited by newswatcher; 14th Mar 2003 at 13:19.
"Difficult to believe", yes but demonstrably true. The average sixteen year old knows little about the world, let alone the world of air travel.
I'm not defending him but pointing out that the industry could do more to highlight in advance the perils of such 'jokes'. Prevention is better than cure.
Over-confident? Could equally have been nervousness.
Your motoring analogy doesn't really work.
I'm not defending him but pointing out that the industry could do more to highlight in advance the perils of such 'jokes'. Prevention is better than cure.
Over-confident? Could equally have been nervousness.
Your motoring analogy doesn't really work.
From the press reports this would appear to be a trip organised and managed by the College concerned. The students, whilst bearing a mark of responsibility, are, by definition, not adults.
In my opinion, it therefore rests on the school/college authorities to be aware of the current rules etc. and to instruct their teachers (or other persons who are responsible for the trip) to inform the students of said rules prior to check-in.
In this case, I feel a certain amount of sympathy towards the 16 year old concerned without belittling the gravity of making such remarks.
In my opinion, it therefore rests on the school/college authorities to be aware of the current rules etc. and to instruct their teachers (or other persons who are responsible for the trip) to inform the students of said rules prior to check-in.
In this case, I feel a certain amount of sympathy towards the 16 year old concerned without belittling the gravity of making such remarks.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: southern england
Posts: 1,650
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
kriskross - I was referring to HJ's comments that this might have been the first time he was away on his own. And yes, I have recently brought two of my own through this challenging age barrier.
HJ - On the subject of "early warning", have I not seen a message to this effect at Stansted or Heathrow, before reaching check-in?
HJ - On the subject of "early warning", have I not seen a message to this effect at Stansted or Heathrow, before reaching check-in?
Join Date: Dec 1998
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't defend the boy's remark, but he is a boy and it was meant as a joke. We can't rely on everyone to behave sensibly all the time, least of all sixteen year old boys.
The JMC spokesman recognised it was a joke but seemed to think it had endangered people's lives. It's a pity people no longer seem able to deal with such a matter without throwing the book at the offender.
Bring back Dixon of Dock Green.
The JMC spokesman recognised it was a joke but seemed to think it had endangered people's lives. It's a pity people no longer seem able to deal with such a matter without throwing the book at the offender.
Bring back Dixon of Dock Green.
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: The Heart
Posts: 811
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The comment may have been meant to be be taken as a joke whilst really being true.
Given that radical, religious fanatics have links in the UK and that their indoctrination is literally from the cradle and further that the name of the individual in question is, how can one say, not typically english, I think the airline most certainly did the right thing!
What better cover for a terrorist than as a school boy, or don't you think terrorists would stoop to that?!
Given that radical, religious fanatics have links in the UK and that their indoctrination is literally from the cradle and further that the name of the individual in question is, how can one say, not typically english, I think the airline most certainly did the right thing!
What better cover for a terrorist than as a school boy, or don't you think terrorists would stoop to that?!
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Europe
Posts: 89
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It doesn't matter what this 16 year olds actions are put down to, at 16 he should know better. It is not as though he is not had the option of education, he was on a school trip! At 16 he can leave school, start working, join the forces etc. Basically start his adult life. Not to far off in the future and this teenager would be tried as an adult.
I am sorry, it may seem harsh, but he deserves what he gets and due to his age it won't be much other than a slapped wrist and maybe a suspension from school.
Just hope that him and his mates didn't find it so funny after he was chucked off the flight.
The school should have sent him home and he should have forfeited the right to the trip. That would have certainly pushed this lesson home.
And as Miserlou has already brought up, it is not beyond certain organisation to use indoctrinated teenagers as suicide bombers, gunmen etc.
The world has changed, I don't like the fact it has, and I don't like the fact that this kid needs to be alot more socially aware at 16 than I had to be. Equally worying though is that he doesn't appear to have had any idea how many problems his actions would cause. I think maybe that is what should be looked at.
Still think he should have the book thrown at him though and maybe other 16 year olds would learn to maybe hold back on rash comments in such circumstances
I am sorry, it may seem harsh, but he deserves what he gets and due to his age it won't be much other than a slapped wrist and maybe a suspension from school.
Just hope that him and his mates didn't find it so funny after he was chucked off the flight.
The school should have sent him home and he should have forfeited the right to the trip. That would have certainly pushed this lesson home.
And as Miserlou has already brought up, it is not beyond certain organisation to use indoctrinated teenagers as suicide bombers, gunmen etc.
The world has changed, I don't like the fact it has, and I don't like the fact that this kid needs to be alot more socially aware at 16 than I had to be. Equally worying though is that he doesn't appear to have had any idea how many problems his actions would cause. I think maybe that is what should be looked at.
Still think he should have the book thrown at him though and maybe other 16 year olds would learn to maybe hold back on rash comments in such circumstances
Last edited by Snoop; 14th Mar 2003 at 14:57.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Well, this action should certainly stop anyone else smuggling guns on board shouldn't it?
Good job he didn't have a catering van to hand.
It sounds to me to be an over reaction. I did things at 16 that were pretty crass and I can imagine that a stern lecture to the teacher in charge by the authorities would have got the message through strongly enough to the young lad in due course.
When you consider the remarks made by a pilot to a local authority recently and what some other pilots considered an over reaction by a court, this episode seems to be a bit of a storm in the teacup.
Good job he didn't have a catering van to hand.
It sounds to me to be an over reaction. I did things at 16 that were pretty crass and I can imagine that a stern lecture to the teacher in charge by the authorities would have got the message through strongly enough to the young lad in due course.
When you consider the remarks made by a pilot to a local authority recently and what some other pilots considered an over reaction by a court, this episode seems to be a bit of a storm in the teacup.
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: The frequency jungle
Posts: 975
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Judging from his name, and the fact that he might have a different complection than the others or maybe he even wore traditional clothing, you could understand when people get jumpy at remarks like that. In some countries 16 is seen as adulthood and I personally feel he should have known what the reaction would be. You just dont stuff around with things like that. Maybe he thought it would be "cool".
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
126,7 what on earth has his complexion got to do with it??
Your logic makes as much sense as your name.
This kind of racism is not only deeply offensive, it's illegal.
Take your views somewhere else, please.
Your logic makes as much sense as your name.
This kind of racism is not only deeply offensive, it's illegal.
Take your views somewhere else, please.
ex-Tanker
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Luton Beds UK
Posts: 907
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Touchy Subject
And away from the main point of thread - but as long as we're there - the main perceived threat is presently from middle eastern organisations. It used to be from slavic countries (note I'm writing about the perceived threat) and from time to time from organisations in ireland, as far as UK has been concerned.
Now, with little to go on, any security man who ignored traits common to the countries of origin of the perceived threat, taken in combination with a sour "joke"as above would - politically correct or not, not be acting in the best interests of the traveller.
This is hard on the vast/vast majority of law abiding people from other countries and feeds the flames of hate but so does driving aeroplanes into 3000 odd unwilling human shields in a world trade center. Unfortunately it's war - quite true - "still they don't get it".
Now, with little to go on, any security man who ignored traits common to the countries of origin of the perceived threat, taken in combination with a sour "joke"as above would - politically correct or not, not be acting in the best interests of the traveller.
This is hard on the vast/vast majority of law abiding people from other countries and feeds the flames of hate but so does driving aeroplanes into 3000 odd unwilling human shields in a world trade center. Unfortunately it's war - quite true - "still they don't get it".
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: UK
Age: 46
Posts: 642
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
JMC were absolutely right in what they did. Security applies to everyone, regardless of age, sex, race, skin colour. Those of us who work for airlines/handling agents/airport security have no tolerance for this kind of "sick humour". By denying boarding to those people who think it is funny to make jokes about security we will eventually get the message home. You want to mess with me at the airport and I will mess with you. I will go home at the end of the shift with a pat on the back from my employer. You will go home with your holiday ruined.
As an aside (and no doubt I will be slated for this) the youth of today have little respect for authority, and are often rude and arrogant. A good slap down like this is what so many of them need and in the future the individual concerned will thank JMC for what they did - it will have taught a valuable lesson to him about respect for authority and the law. Remember compliance with security questions is the law.
As an aside (and no doubt I will be slated for this) the youth of today have little respect for authority, and are often rude and arrogant. A good slap down like this is what so many of them need and in the future the individual concerned will thank JMC for what they did - it will have taught a valuable lesson to him about respect for authority and the law. Remember compliance with security questions is the law.
Join Date: May 2002
Location: uk
Posts: 165
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A few people have mentioned that the boy's comments were just a joke. Well when are people going to get the message that such comments are never seen as jokes and never will be, NO EXCEPTIONS !
Join Date: May 2002
Location: LGW - Hub of the Universe!
Posts: 978
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The 16 year old was very lucky to get away with just missing his flight at LGW!
Normally in such circumstances, (regardless of which airline or handling company is involved) the offender will be asked to repeat what has just been said (viz: "I have a gun in my bag").
If he/she does repeat the statement, the police are called who will, usually:
1. Arrange hand-searching of baggage
2. Formally arrest and arrange strip search of offender - a most uncomfortable and embarrassing experience.
3. Ensure offender remains in custody long enough to ensure all flights to the required destination have departed for the day!
To those who see this offence as a trivial issue, there are some of us still working in aviation who have lost friends, relatives and colleagues in terrorist incidents. Believe me, ('cos I have first-hand experience) of all the flights you check in day in and day out, when an "incident" occurs you can remember every face you dealt with!
My son knew from the age of three not to crack jokes about air crashes or hijackings (or train crashes, if travelling by rail!) It's very unpleasant for anyone in the vicinity who is nervous!
As stated in another thread, IF A 16 YEAR OLD DOESN'T KNOW HOW TO BEHAVE IN PUBLIC, BLAME THE PARENTS!!!
Normally in such circumstances, (regardless of which airline or handling company is involved) the offender will be asked to repeat what has just been said (viz: "I have a gun in my bag").
If he/she does repeat the statement, the police are called who will, usually:
1. Arrange hand-searching of baggage
2. Formally arrest and arrange strip search of offender - a most uncomfortable and embarrassing experience.
3. Ensure offender remains in custody long enough to ensure all flights to the required destination have departed for the day!
To those who see this offence as a trivial issue, there are some of us still working in aviation who have lost friends, relatives and colleagues in terrorist incidents. Believe me, ('cos I have first-hand experience) of all the flights you check in day in and day out, when an "incident" occurs you can remember every face you dealt with!
My son knew from the age of three not to crack jokes about air crashes or hijackings (or train crashes, if travelling by rail!) It's very unpleasant for anyone in the vicinity who is nervous!
As stated in another thread, IF A 16 YEAR OLD DOESN'T KNOW HOW TO BEHAVE IN PUBLIC, BLAME THE PARENTS!!!