Falsely blaming ATC
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 289
Likes: 150
From: Too far South
Falsely blaming ATC
Not quite sure where this one goes….
i was on a Ryanair flight today from Germany to Edinburgh, where we suffered a 30 minute or so delay. The captain came on the intercom and announced we had a delay as ATC had given us a slot time at 36 minutes past the hour despite the flight being scheduled for a 10 past departure.
However, I was in the front row, and, as the cabin crew had announced “boarding complete” and started to close the front door a passenger approached them to point out that his wheelchair bound father was still sitting at the gate in his wheelchair waiting for the transport to bring him to the aircraft.
Why lie and blame ATC for an event that lands squarely on the shoulders of the ground handlers?
what made it even more annoying was the captain finished his little announcement about ATC causing the delay he said “the good thing about this is that it will give us more time to help seat a wheelchair passenger.
After 29 years in the ATC business I don’t mind being blamed for something that is my fault, but when someone else makes a mistake why not just be honest about it?
i was on a Ryanair flight today from Germany to Edinburgh, where we suffered a 30 minute or so delay. The captain came on the intercom and announced we had a delay as ATC had given us a slot time at 36 minutes past the hour despite the flight being scheduled for a 10 past departure.
However, I was in the front row, and, as the cabin crew had announced “boarding complete” and started to close the front door a passenger approached them to point out that his wheelchair bound father was still sitting at the gate in his wheelchair waiting for the transport to bring him to the aircraft.
Why lie and blame ATC for an event that lands squarely on the shoulders of the ground handlers?
what made it even more annoying was the captain finished his little announcement about ATC causing the delay he said “the good thing about this is that it will give us more time to help seat a wheelchair passenger.
After 29 years in the ATC business I don’t mind being blamed for something that is my fault, but when someone else makes a mistake why not just be honest about it?
Moderator
Joined: Jun 1999
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 2,901
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From: MAN. UK.
I'm out of the loop having retired ten years ago but in my day a 36 slot with a tolerance of -5/+10 minutes would have meant at most a 15 minute delay. The way you describe it I'm wondering if the two events were unrelated and in fact the Captain only became aware of the wheelchair after delaying for the slot.
Whilst not out of place in the British Aviation Forum I'm going to pop you over to the Passenger forum. You might get more response there.
Whilst not out of place in the British Aviation Forum I'm going to pop you over to the Passenger forum. You might get more response there.
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 289
Likes: 150
From: Too far South
I'm out of the loop having retired ten years ago but in my day a 36 slot with a tolerance of -5/+10 minutes would have meant at most a 15 minute delay. The way you describe it I'm wondering if the two events were unrelated and in fact the Captain only became aware of the wheelchair after delaying for the slot.
Whilst not out of place in the British Aviation Forum I'm going to pop you over to the Passenger forum. You might get more response there.
Whilst not out of place in the British Aviation Forum I'm going to pop you over to the Passenger forum. You might get more response there.
the previous announcement from the driver was that we would be leaving on time, and the actions of the cabin crew (ie retracting the airstair and closing the door) lead me to believe they really had no idea that a checked in pax was left in the terminal.
Paxing All Over The World
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 10,841
Likes: 328
From: Hertfordshire, UK.
We have discussed this before and the answer tends to be: Pax will never know. On one such trip, I heard this used on the PA but was able to check in the forum to learn that - it was the correct information.
However, I think that most pax STILL work on price / closest airport to home, and put up with delays (almost) irrespective of type.
I appreciate that, for ATC and other folks - not a fun moment to hear this given when it is not the case.
However, I think that most pax STILL work on price / closest airport to home, and put up with delays (almost) irrespective of type.
I appreciate that, for ATC and other folks - not a fun moment to hear this given when it is not the case.
PPRuNe Handmaiden
Joined: Feb 1997
Posts: 4,910
Likes: 184
From: Duit On Mon Dei
Ahh yes, the dreaded CTOTs.
We had a departure time of 14z. CTOT issued for a departure time of 15:30z. Company told pax about the delay and so they duly arrived at just after 14z thinking that they had plenty of time. Meanwhile our CTOT had come forward to 14:15z and we had to really make haste to make that CTOT.
After just making it, I went back at TOPC and explained how the system worked.
I also wrote a crew report suggesting that Owner Services check about what kind of delay it is before telling the pax.
Eventually we had access to a fantastic app so we could check on the delays and assess how it'll play out.
So in the OP's case, both are correct. The CTOT did add a delay which they could use to grab the pax the ground handlers forgot to load.
CTOT - Calculated Take Off Time. Issued by Flow Control in Eurocontrol. They are different to airport slots. Think of them as the traffic lights you occasionally see at on ramps to a busy motorway. There are a heap of others esp if the airport has A-CDM (Airport - Collaborative Decision Making. A truly frustrating process).
TOPC (or TOC) Top of Climb.
We had a departure time of 14z. CTOT issued for a departure time of 15:30z. Company told pax about the delay and so they duly arrived at just after 14z thinking that they had plenty of time. Meanwhile our CTOT had come forward to 14:15z and we had to really make haste to make that CTOT.
After just making it, I went back at TOPC and explained how the system worked.
I also wrote a crew report suggesting that Owner Services check about what kind of delay it is before telling the pax.
Eventually we had access to a fantastic app so we could check on the delays and assess how it'll play out.
So in the OP's case, both are correct. The CTOT did add a delay which they could use to grab the pax the ground handlers forgot to load.
CTOT - Calculated Take Off Time. Issued by Flow Control in Eurocontrol. They are different to airport slots. Think of them as the traffic lights you occasionally see at on ramps to a busy motorway. There are a heap of others esp if the airport has A-CDM (Airport - Collaborative Decision Making. A truly frustrating process).
TOPC (or TOC) Top of Climb.
Last edited by redsnail; 3rd June 2026 at 02:41. Reason: TLAs although they are actually 4 letters
