Security incident or simple stupidity?

[easyflyer83]

Originally Posted by Chesty Morgan

Are you really suggesting that the ground crew will only load an individual's bag once that individual has boarded the flight?

Not how it works is it...?

No, but it won’t depart with that bag onboard.

[tdracer]

Originally Posted by Chesty Morgan

Are you really suggesting that the ground crew will only load an individual's bag once that individual has boarded the flight?

Not how it works is it...?

I sat in a 747 at JFK for an hour while they searched through the hold to find and remove an individual's bag when they checked a bag but didn't board the aircraft.

[Chesty Morgan]

Originally Posted by easyflyer83

No, but it won’t depart with that bag onboard.

Well it does happen, and will probably continue to happen. So as nice as it would be to be so confident that it wouldn't you are wrong.

[easyflyer83]

Originally Posted by Chesty Morgan

Well it does happen, and will probably continue to happen. So as nice as it would be to be so confident that it wouldn't you are wrong.

A bag belonging to a passenger that didn’t board is exceedingly rare and, to my knowledge, would be an oversight not a product of procedure.

Yes, some bags travel without passengers but these ‘rush’ bags belong to passengers that travelled on the correct & intended flight.

[Chesty Morgan]

Yes, but rare is not never.

[42psi]

Originally Posted by Chesty Morgan

Yes, but rare is not never.

There are a number of "rare, but not ever" events that can take place in aviation.

They are usually also very random and generally impossible to predict when and where they are going to happen.

The report of the event that started this asked if there was a security risk of a passenger being on the incorrect flight
.
That/those (wrong) passengers have been through the same security checks as everyone else (the right passengers) on that aircraft.

The risk to that aircraft is no different to the risk posed by every other passenger on that aircraft.

For the aircraft they should have travelled on they should be identified as, "no show" and any hold luggage removed.

If for any reason that does not happen, the risk from their hold luggage is again the same for every other piece of baggage which has been screened on that flight. I'm making the assumption here (I know!) that everyone is doing 100% HBS as a norm these days - Barcelona does.

Edited to add: rush bags have to be identified, documented and security screened for the flight they are to travel on.

[Bergerie1]

42psi is absolutely correct

[treadigraph]

My sister was returning to the US from Portugal a few years ago with a broken shoulder, a flight arranged by her insurance once she left hospital; she sent a text to say she was on her way in first class (as I predicted!) and her husband was being a bit grumpy down the back. A couple of hours later I idly checked ADSB to see how her flight was progressing and was concerned to see the aircraft descending into one of the Azores airports - 90% or whatever of emergencies are medical, right? - and who do I know on board who has recently had trauma, etc... As the aircraft was back tracking, I sent her a text enquiring as to her well being and got a message straight back - a passenger had been denied boarding as he had tested positive for covid - but his bags had made it into the hold. Whoops!

[DaveReidUK]

"Welcome aboard XXX Airline's flight 123 to AAA, with continuing service to BBB. If neither of these destinations figures in your travel plans, now would be a good time to make that known to a flight attendant".

I've heard that announcement a good few times on US domestic flights in the past.

[justapax]

I was on a flight where Captain Speaking told us we were on a flight to Hamburg. Hands shot up as everyone on the flight pressed the flight crew buttons to say we thought we were going to Hanover. Quick visit to the flight deck and another announcement, 'sorry for the mistake, we're going to Hanover'. This did not inspire confidence.

[ATSA1]

We were travelling back to UK from Joburg, and while waiting to board, we heard at least 4 "final calls" for 4 passengers on an Ethiopian flight, the last 2 calls even named them...we boarded soon after, so we never knew if they made it or not.

[Asturias56]

A real horror used to be airports like Unjung Pandang/Makassar, Ambon & Balikpapan in Indonesia when Garuda et al used to run a hub & spoke operation using DC-10's out of Jakarta and then you changed to an F27, F28 or HS748 for the smaller, more remote spots.

There'd be a line of identical aircraft on the tarmac, and a DC-10 sized mob wandering about trying to figure out which one was the one they wanted.... no signs, no help. Someone would board, check with the CC and then shout the odds from the doorway.......

[paulross]

Originally Posted by DaveReidUK

"Welcome aboard XXX Airline's flight 123 to AAA, with continuing service to BBB. If neither of these destinations figures in your travel plans, now would be a good time to make that known to a flight attendant".

I've heard that announcement a good few times on US domestic flights in the past.

My all time favourite on a US domestic was at the beginning of the safety briefing: "There may be fifty ways to leave your lover but there are only eight exits on this plane". That got everyones attention.

Back to security; in 2010 I was on holiday at Sharm El Sheikh and all the departure flights are bunched together in the afternoon. So there are several thousand people milling around for hours in the terminal. The security was dreadful: Unmanned Xray machines. Metal detectors going beep all the time with no-one doing anything about it. No checking of passports against boarding cards on boarding. For example there were endless announcements "would the last person for flight XXX board now". I was watching them do this, they were merely counting boarding cards so they didn't know who was missing, just someone was missing. A nefarious person could easily conceal their journey by swapping boarding cards with someone else. People from local flights were wandering in from airside and so on.

I have flown a lot in somewhat dubious places and I am pretty relaxed traveller but with such lax security and several thousand westerners packed into a terminal it felt like being a very attractive target. So much so that I actually briefed my wife to the effect "If there is an explosion grab the children and run towards it" on the basis that a common tactic is that the first bomb herds the crowd to where the main bomb is. I was entirely unsurprised when, five years later, Metrojet 9268 leaving that very terminal went down.

[Chesty Morgan]

Originally Posted by 42psi

There are a number of "rare, but not ever" events that can take place in aviation.

They are usually also very random and generally impossible to predict when and where they are going to happen.

The report of the event that started this asked if there was a security risk of a passenger being on the incorrect flight
.
That/those (wrong) passengers have been through the same security checks as everyone else (the right passengers) on that aircraft.

The risk to that aircraft is no different to the risk posed by every other passenger on that aircraft.

For the aircraft they should have travelled on they should be identified as, "no show" and any hold luggage removed.

If for any reason that does not happen, the risk from their hold luggage is again the same for every other piece of baggage which has been screened on that flight. I'm making the assumption here (I know!) that everyone is doing 100% HBS as a norm these days - Barcelona does.

Edited to add: rush bags have to be identified, documented and security screened for the flight they are to travel on.

I'm afraid it's not that simple. It's what can happen to that bag after security screening that is concerning. You've heard of the insider threat I'm sure.