What's the *real* difference between First Class and Business Class long haul?

[justapax]

I have flown First infrequently over the years, whenever my face fit. Neither I nor the organisations I have ever worked for have paid for a First Class seat. I only really got to fly business class so often is because excess baggage is charged at 1% of the First Class fare, and your allowance is usually much greater in business than in Economy. Only once LHR-HRE, was it cheaper to send my considerable baggage air-freight.

So what extra do you get in First Class?

- no kids
- caviar
- your bed made up for you
- hot and cold running flunkeys; much more attention from the CC. They have to look after maybe 8 to 12 passengers, business class CC have to look after around 50.
- Meals when you want them.
- on Emirates and Etihad, a shower. I am 68, male, and I have waist length blond hair, so 5 minutes of water isn't enough to wash it. I'll leave this privilege to others.
- better pyjamas.

What's the same?

- The food, pretty much. In business you don't get the caviar, and the menu is a bit less exotic, but not much.
- The wines, and the access to the bar, on Emirates.
- Lie-flat beds.
- 1-2-1 layout, except on Etihad and Singapore, which are 1 - 1 in First and priced accordingly.
- The noise-cancelling headphones

What have I missed? Chauffeur service? Sometimes the same on First as on business, sometimes not, depends on the airline.

I want to fly First, at least on one leg, on an Emirates A380, to Australia, the biggest country I've never visited. I've never flown First with Emirates and I've never flown in the A380. Emirates are trying strenuously to prevent me from enjoying this once-in-a-lifetime experience, I may go Qantas instead ... with Emirates Skywards miles. Life is strange, that an airline actually wants you to fly with one of their competitors.

[ZFT]

No kids! Sorry but I wish that was true.

[Expatrick]

Penelope Cruz?

[redsnail]

I've been lucky enough to fly First Class on an Emirates A380 to Australia. I've also flown Business class to Australia too. We were lucky with the First class experience as Emirates had only just opened up that route and so there were bargains to be had

The showers were fun. Do them Japanese style.Turn it on. Get wet. Turn it off. Lather up. Turn it back on again and rinse. The First class lounge in Dubai is something else. The Lounge isn't that amazing in LHR from what I can remember. It's ok.

Bigger screens, more privacy, bigger space (but not massive) than Business class. More choice of when you can eat etc.
I'm glad I have done it, would I do it again? If the price was right, sure.

Note - I have heard shocking things about BA A380 business class. Apparently it is the old design where you need to step over people.

[justapax]

Originally Posted by redsnail

Note - I have heard shocking things about BA A380 business class. Apparently it is the old design where you need to step over people.

As it's my own money, it's BA=no way. The world's *least* favourite airline.

[Haven't a clue]

I was lucky to fly BA F for many years. On one trip I could only get BA C for the return. I remember asking one of the cabin crew in F outbound what was it like; the response was it was ok but I wouldn't like the smell......

[togsdragracing]

Originally Posted by redsnail

Note - I have heard shocking things about BA A380 business class. Apparently it is the old design where you need to step over people.

True unless you take the window seats at the back of the Business cabin which - if you are sufficiently thin - have a gap behind the aisle seat to get in and out. Certainly upstairs, anyway.

Having done both First and Business across the Atlantic I honestly didn't think First was a lot different. The lounge was the best bit of it. I'd better not name the airline but on my couple of flights in First the cabin crew seemed to pick and choose which of the passengers got the close personal attention. But then maybe they were frequent flyers and so the crew may have encountered them before.

[Mr Mac]

Justapax1
Most of my flying is now in Business Class with our 3 carriers EK,LH,SQ with occasional BA and loco carriers like Jet 2, Easyjet, Ryanair. I have only travelled First Class a very few times and this has been a result of an unsolicited upgrade, and that has been with EK/SQ and BA for some reason or other. As an observation the difference's are quite small especially on EK / SQ with it being more about the quality of lounge and food and wine on board as well as space.

As an example on EK the Champagne in the bar is Veuve Clicquot and in First it is Dom Perignon though I prefer being able to walk and stand at the bar and chat rather than sit so I have on the times I have been upgraded with EK walked to the bar. I am not alone in this, as on my last EK flight the other week a gentleman came down from First to chat at the bar with CC crew bringing a bottle of Dom. I happily chatted with him while he drank his Dom but CC were obviously instructed not to serve other people with his champagne, though he did offer me a glass which I was allowed to accept.

Any comparisons between Business and economy are meaningless as there is no comparison, though it is an expensive perk or indeed cost, if it is for a holiday. First to Business I would not personally pay for as I do not think the difference is that great on any of the carrier's I use anyway.
Cheers
Mr Mac

[justapax]

As EK First is about double the price of EK Business, I think for my bucket trip to Australia I will fly Business class and upgrade to Gold Class on the Indian Pacific. A little less luxury on the plane, a lot more luxury on the train, a big saving in money. Thanks for your advice, people!

Just a hint to those who like a bit of comfort in the gaps between flights - I am a member of a London Club, www.rosl.org.uk, which gives me reciprocal membership of Clubs all over the world. Most are like 4- or 5-star hotels but a fraction of the price. There isn't one in Perth but there is one in Sydney, rapidly becoming one of the most expensive cities in the world to stay overnight. Membership of a Club isn't difficult (just go to a 'new member's' night and get someone to propose you, and then get another sponsor who is a professional person who has know you for several years, this is normally your GP), pay your sub, and you get a hotel room in the centre of London for about Ł 170 a night, whereas a hotel in the the same area (St James's) would be more like Ł 700). And the aforementioned Reciprocal Clubs.

I think I'll buy a 50g tin of caviar at Heathrow, assuming the lights are on, serve myself it, and kid myself I'm really in First Class.

[artee]

Originally Posted by Justapax1

As EK First is about double the price of EK Business, I think for my bucket trip to Australia I will fly Business class and upgrade to Gold Class on the Indian Pacific. A little less luxury on the plane, a lot more luxury on the train, a big saving in money. Thanks for your advice, people!

Just a hint to those who like a bit of comfort in the gaps between flights - I am a member of a London Club, www.rosl.org.uk, which gives me reciprocal membership of Clubs all over the world. Most are like 4- or 5-star hotels but a fraction of the price. There isn't one in Perth but there is one in Sydney, rapidly becoming one of the most expensive cities in the world to stay overnight. Membership of a Club isn't difficult (just go to a 'new member's' night and get someone to propose you, and then get another sponsor who is a professional person who has know you for several years, this is normally your GP), pay your sub, and you get a hotel room in the centre of London for about Ł 170 a night, whereas a hotel in the the same area (St James's) would be more like Ł 700). And the aforementioned Reciprocal Clubs.

I think I'll buy a 50g tin of caviar at Heathrow, assuming the lights are on, serve myself it, and kid myself I'm really in First Class.

Agree re Royal Over-Seas League. Also good place to eat if you're in town.

Also decent yacht clubs can have very good reciprocal memberships, some with v. good accommodation.

Good thinking Batman re the caviar

[justapax]

Originally Posted by artee

Agree re Royal Over-Seas League. Also good place to eat if you're in town.

Also decent yacht clubs can have very good reciprocal memberships, some with v. good accommodation.

Good thinking Batman re the caviar

As you give your location as 'Australia'. I imagine the ROSL is a Reciprocal Club for you. Two hints: In August, the rooms get booked up by Overseas Members escaping the New York heat of summer, and the restaurant is no longer as good as it was before the pandemic, but https://www.maisonfrancois.london is a short walk away, just the other side of St James's Street, and, although not the amazing value for money it was when it opened, still well-priced for St James's.

Edit: I forgot to mention - the ROSL is 3 minutes (6 minutes if you don't do stairs) walk from Green Park tube, which means you can get there from Heathrow without changing trains.

[PAXboy]

First Class has been eclipsed by Business Class.

When I first travelled Upper Class on VS (Oct 1986) it was certainly very comfy but not lie-flat. I think it was them (and probably others) that started the move to make C a lot better. Subsequently, various financial crashes, 9/11, Covid, NetJets etc. have meant that F is now for wealthy leisure more than the CEO types. Further, many of those travelling on business have been told not to have 'First Class' show up in their expenses.

Accordingly, C became better than many F. I think that one carrier changed it to 'Business First' to get round it?

In the 1990s, these changes meant that PE replaced some who went C as the prices increased and for leisure who could afford a bit more. As C improved, so PE has also crept up the scale. F is out on a limb.

I have never travlled F, C and PE suit me/us fine. If I had the cash to splash, I'd try some of the more exotic options. When comparing carriers - C is now the standard.

I lie down with a glass of bubbly. If you wish to correct me, do knock on the sliding panel first ...

[justapax]

Originally Posted by PAXboy

First Class has been eclipsed by Business Class.

When I first travelled Upper Class on VS (Oct 1986) it was certainly very comfy but not lie-flat. I think it was them (and probably others) that started the move to make C a lot better. Subsequently, various financial crashes, 9/11, Covid, NetJets etc. have meant that F is now for wealthy leisure more than the CEO types. Further, many of those travelling on business have been told not to have 'First Class' show up in their expenses.

Accordingly, C became better than many F. I think that one carrier changed it to 'Business First' to get round it?

In the 1990s, these changes meant that PE replaced some who went C as the prices increased and for leisure who could afford a bit more. As C improved, so PE has also crept up the scale. F is out on a limb.

I have never travlled F, C and PE suit me/us fine. If I had the cash to splash, I'd try some of the more exotic options. When comparing carriers - C is now the standard.

I lie down with a glass of bubbly. If you wish to correct me, do knock on the sliding panel first ...

C class has come a long way from when it was first mooted. Originally the idea was that people would pay extra for an economy seat (in the days when you could actually sit in an economy seat) if they were offered the things business travellers wanted - i.e., freedom to change flights up to the last minute or to cancel, extra baggage allowance, and a few perks like a cooked meal even on short-haul flights. The dividing line between Y and C was just a moveable screen with a curtain in it, so the aircraft could be reconfigured to be mostly economy/ few business or more business/fewer economy just by sliding the screen backwards or forwards.

Well, C class has moved way upmarket since then and rivals first, causing Premium Economy to be introduced to fill the zone Business used to occupy. And, as you say, this brings into question why there should be a first class at all. The reason seems to be that there are some people, like royalty, who will automatically choose first class and that it is retained for these few. I can see countries that have Emirs and Kings will always have a first class, but I imagine few others will. Your thoughts?

[PAXboy]

Interesting background detail JP1.

(wild stab in the dark)
For Western carriers, the future of F will prob depend on the overall financial state of the West across the next 5/10 years. For the East? Probably continue.

[ZFT]

F Class was described by the CEO of an airline I worked for as the worlds most expensive staff canteen whilst we were both seated in it!!

[Mr Mac]

PAXby
I think you will get some flights on a route with First class and other at a different time with just Business. For example EK has currently 3 flights from Manchester to DXB, but only the lunchtime arrival in Manchester and later departure has First Class. I suspect this may happen on routes from London to say New York for example with BA or indeed other European carriers that operate more than one flight a day to a destination or indeed where there is little demand.

Cheers
Mr Mac

[Asturias56]

In one of the "Crazy Rich Asians" books one of the mega rich Singaporeans has to fly SQ First back from London as the Gulfstream is elsewhere - he spends the whole flight in agonies that someone will recognise him and think he can only afford to slum it

[PAXboy]

This from CNN arrived in a feed today:

'A retreat above the clouds': The airlines keeping first class alive

Short extract from longer article: CNN

Long-haul first class with a glass of Champagne in hand is the slowly dying dream of many travelers, with carriers like American Airlines, Qatar Airways and United Airlines sounding the death knell for international top-tier experiences on their planes.

Always looking to maximize profits, such airlines have come to believe that improved business class seats are the way forward, rendering the posh, private echelons at the pointy end of the plane redundant.

International “first class will not exist … at American Airlines for the simple reason that our customers aren’t buying it,” American’s former Chief Revenue Officer Vasu Raja told CNN in 2022.

[John Kasuku]

First Class passengers are often those who do not wish to be ogled, approached or pointed out to all and sundry. They can be pretty confident the other passengers in the cabin will show respect and not infringe on their right to privacy.

A couple of years ago I was bumped up to seat 2A on a QF 747 due to a change in aircraft from 3 to 4 class, and to be honest the business class seat was just as good and the TV screen was better than the tired old First Class equipment.

[S.o.S.]

Hello John Kasuku and welcome to PPRuNe and your observation. How long ago was that? Perhaps QF have changed their First.