EU261 Query

[SpringHeeledJack]

A family member was delayed on their flight yesterday. Between two EU destinations, the departure was over 3 hours late. Looking at Flightaware, the pilots were caning it to reduce that down during the flight which they managed to do by some minutes.

So, question is is the EU261 triggered by the late departure, the late arrival, takeoff/landing time, or block to block ? I've looked at various sites, but they all seem to say the same things, but not the specifics. Any info welcome.

[atakacs]

My understanding is that it is the arrival time. So probably not eligible in your case as described.

[roger4]

That's my understanding also, i.e. more than 3 hours late arriving. Note that it is based on when the doors are opened rather than touchdown. Compensation may also depend on the reason for the delay, i.e. if it was outside of the control of the Airline, then no compensation might be the result.

[SpringHeeledJack]

Thanks for the replies gents. The reason was a 'crew change' possibly at the origin of the incoming flight. The crew got to the outbound gate in 2hrs 55mins.....Family member missed all ground transpport and had to fork out a wedge for a taxi. Are the regs deliberately obtuse to confuse Joe Public, or to allow wiggle room for the airlines ? I can understand the airlines not wanting to be hit with compensation payments that might wipe out any profit on a sector, but at the same time they have a responsibility to their customers and the money spent for a service.

[Globaliser]

Originally Posted by SpringHeeledJack

Are the regs deliberately obtuse to confuse Joe Public, or to allow wiggle room for the airlines ?

The right to compensation for a flight that is delayed (rather than cancelled) isn't found in the text of the Regulation, so any criticism of the definition of that right lies elsewhere.

In any event, measuring the length of the delay by arrival time concentrates on the time point that really matters. After all, who cares how long a departure delay is if arrival is on time?

And as a cut-off time point would have to be set by any rule, surely it's not a bad thing that an airline that has had to delay a flight then has an incentive to reduce the duration of the delay?

[Tocsin]

There may be no delay compensation, but the airline is still responsible for duty of care. If there were genuinely no public transport options due to the late arrival, then put in a claim for the taxi expenses.

[easyflyer83]

Originally Posted by Tocsin

There may be no delay compensation, but the airline is still responsible for duty of care. If there were genuinely no public transport options due to the late arrival, then put in a claim for the taxi expenses.

Typically, an airline will not take any responsibility for onward travel unless booked through them.

[Tocsin]

Originally Posted by easyflyer83

Typically, an airline will not take any responsibility for onward travel unless booked through them.

But some, to my knowledge, will pay up when their (in)action has caused the problem. The only way to certainly not get paid is to not claim...

[atakacs]

Originally Posted by SpringHeeledJack

Are the regs deliberately obtuse to confuse Joe Public, or to allow wiggle room for the airlines ?

I agree that wording of EU261 is possibly lacking but the rule is more than 3 hours late at arrival. Pretty clear in my book.

[SWBKCB]

As the resident family aviation expert, I've been asked a question on EU 261. Does the 3 hours late apply to individual flights, or if connecting flights are involved is it arrival at the final destination.

For example - flight from the UK point A, change at AMS for EU detination C, same airline for both flights (KLM).

Flight from A is the third sector of the day. First sector is delayed due to crewing issues, so second and third sectors delayed (KLM will say that sector 3 is delayed by the late arrival of the inbound ). Flight A is less than three hours late but missed connection in AMS, so put on the next available flight, That flight arrives on time, but the whole journey is more than 3 hours after the original ticketed arrival time.

Is compensation due?

[Globaliser]

Originally Posted by SWBKCB

Is compensation due?

AIUI, if the entire journey from A to C was written on a single ticket then compensation is payable based on the arrival time at the final destination (ie C) compared to the original scheduled arrival time there - so in your situation, the answer should be yes.

It would be different if A to AMS and AMS to C were on separate tickets, as that is technically not a connection.