Confidental safety reporting and other industries
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2008
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From: UK
Confidental safety reporting and other industries
Long-time lurker here with an interest in aviation - really ever since my Dad took me to see Concorde testing out of Fairford.
I'm also a long-time Private Eye reader and, for those who follow Medicine Balls, they will be familiar with what happens to whistleblowers within the NHS - the persecution and often eventually being forced out of the profession. Which is sad. In aviation, you have a confidential safety reporting system - CHIRP I think. It is obviously in the interest of the airline industry as a whole to make safety a priority. After all, when there is an airline incident, it gets on the news and it's a couple of hundred people who perish. In medicine or social care, people die at a far greater rate but generally one at a time and quietly. There is also the difference in that people generally choose to fly and could choose not to whereas with healthcare, well people don't directly choose to become ill.
So my actual question (to people who know the airline industry) is, could a system like CHIRP work for health & social care? If not, what are the problems that would prevent it from being a force for good?
Disclaimer: I am not a journalist or a politician. Just a person who has an interest in maybe making the world better.
I'm also a long-time Private Eye reader and, for those who follow Medicine Balls, they will be familiar with what happens to whistleblowers within the NHS - the persecution and often eventually being forced out of the profession. Which is sad. In aviation, you have a confidential safety reporting system - CHIRP I think. It is obviously in the interest of the airline industry as a whole to make safety a priority. After all, when there is an airline incident, it gets on the news and it's a couple of hundred people who perish. In medicine or social care, people die at a far greater rate but generally one at a time and quietly. There is also the difference in that people generally choose to fly and could choose not to whereas with healthcare, well people don't directly choose to become ill.
So my actual question (to people who know the airline industry) is, could a system like CHIRP work for health & social care? If not, what are the problems that would prevent it from being a force for good?
Disclaimer: I am not a journalist or a politician. Just a person who has an interest in maybe making the world better.
Son of Slot
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Joined: Feb 2013
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From: London
Hello SteppenHerring and (after all these years) welcome to the open aisles of the cabin!
This is a great question and I'm sure we will have replies soon. If you search the site there may be other threads that discuss CHIRP but I hope this does bring forth some reassurance, given the great difficulties of the past year or so.
This is a great question and I'm sure we will have replies soon. If you search the site there may be other threads that discuss CHIRP but I hope this does bring forth some reassurance, given the great difficulties of the past year or so.
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 638
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From: South Oxfordshire
In my bit of the pharmaceutical industry we have 24/7 confidential reporting hotlines. We are "trained" in their use, frequently reminded of their presence and encouraged to use them if we believe something's not right and we haven't been able to resolve it locally through the normal reporting systems.
I haven't worked for the NHS, so I don't know whether the working culture would make such a system feasible.
I haven't worked for the NHS, so I don't know whether the working culture would make such a system feasible.
PPRuNe Handmaiden
Joined: Feb 1997
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From: Duit On Mon Dei
Whilst I am not in the medical profession, in aviation, there's a big push for the Just Culture concept. That is, unless you've been willfully negligent or acted intentionally to break the rules then you are usually exempt from prosecution. So your event is analysed for the purpose of preventing further events. This didn't happen over night and took a big shift in culture to not just blame the pilots and for also, pilots to accept that they do make errors.
In the medical world, there's the concept of "where there's blame, there's a claim". Medical professionals are not really protected with the concept of Just Culture. Events don't appear to be investigated to learn to avoid that error/mistake, more to punish and gaol/fine the person involved. Until there's a cultural shift in the medical world that medical professionals can and will make mistakes/errors and that lawyers are circling waiting to pounce, it won't change.
In the medical world, there's the concept of "where there's blame, there's a claim". Medical professionals are not really protected with the concept of Just Culture. Events don't appear to be investigated to learn to avoid that error/mistake, more to punish and gaol/fine the person involved. Until there's a cultural shift in the medical world that medical professionals can and will make mistakes/errors and that lawyers are circling waiting to pounce, it won't change.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 8
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From: UK
In the medical world, there's the concept of "where there's blame, there's a claim". Medical professionals are not really protected with the concept of Just Culture. Events don't appear to be investigated to learn to avoid that error/mistake, more to punish and gaol/fine the person involved
With systems like healthcare, people die because of safety failings but they do so one at a time and generally quietly. So I was interested in what the aviation community thought about the applicability and fitness for purpose of such a reporting system.
Another thought: if a member of cabin crew thought the captain - who might be the chief pilot of the airline - smelled of whisky and they reported it, would they be risking their jobs? What about a junior nurse and the head of cardiac surgery?
I can't post URLs, but drphilhammond dot com has some examples of his Private Eye columns
Paxing All Over The World
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 10,842
Likes: 328
From: Hertfordshire, UK.
I think it correct that the medical profession still has a closed view.
On the positive side, operating theatres have adopted check lists and a knee operation I had in 2002 included the surgeon visiting me on the ward and writing a large black arrow in felt tip pen - pointing to the correct knee!
On the negative side ... In the mid-1990s, a UK friend of mine experienced a birth that was botched and, subsequently, required three separate operations to try and repair the damage. All failed and she is left with a Stoma for the rest of her life. She sued for reparations, taking care to read all the papers herself and understand the details. The hospital closed ranks and they had great difficulty - even in court.
Eventually, without her permission, her solicitor did a deal with the hospital to settle out of court. My friend realised that she would then have to sue the lawyer! As she was a single mother, she gave up. So that was a 'win' all round.
On the positive side, operating theatres have adopted check lists and a knee operation I had in 2002 included the surgeon visiting me on the ward and writing a large black arrow in felt tip pen - pointing to the correct knee!
On the negative side ... In the mid-1990s, a UK friend of mine experienced a birth that was botched and, subsequently, required three separate operations to try and repair the damage. All failed and she is left with a Stoma for the rest of her life. She sued for reparations, taking care to read all the papers herself and understand the details. The hospital closed ranks and they had great difficulty - even in court.
Eventually, without her permission, her solicitor did a deal with the hospital to settle out of court. My friend realised that she would then have to sue the lawyer! As she was a single mother, she gave up. So that was a 'win' all round.
