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Dog dies in overhead locker on UA

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Dog dies in overhead locker on UA

Old 15th Mar 2018, 01:52
  #81 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
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When you read of all the issues that arise, you have to wonder about the lack of people skills!

I was yelled at by a Flight Attendant (on a flight across the US) when I stood up to retrieve a book from the overhead locker.
Unbeknown to me, one of the pilots had left the flight deck to use the bathroom.
Apparently I was supposed to remain alert for this situation, and also know I wasn't allowed to move a muscle whilst this toilet break took place!

I guess I should be thankful I wasn't put in a headlock and arrested.
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Old 15th Mar 2018, 01:58
  #82 (permalink)  
 
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This is an appalling incident. Absolutely incredulously appalling . United has no leg to stand on and has apologized. There is however nothing that can be done to bring this animal back to life and no remedy to alleviate the tragedy in the eyes of a young girl who will forever remember this tragic occurence.

United should pay a VERY LARGE SUM to the family for their grief and take steps to ensure this does not happen again EVER.

NO dragging passengers off planes who are ticketed and let on board, no putting in pets in overhead bins PERIOD.

The Cabin crew responsible should not only be fired but also should be charged to the full extent of the law allowed for animal cruelty .

Plus she or he is not a very bright or compassionate human being.

Never had a pet of her/his own perhaps.
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Old 15th Mar 2018, 02:04
  #83 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by tdracer View Post
Would the dog have died if it hadn't been placed in a minimally ventilation overhead?
We'll never know, will we? Given the stats quoted...

189 animals died on commercial flights from June 2005 to June 2011; of those animals, 98 — more than half — were brachycephalic breeds.

...
it's possible being in the bin had nothing to do with the death of the dog. That said, there's no way the dog should have been in the overhead.
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Old 15th Mar 2018, 02:19
  #84 (permalink)  
 
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And about the barking story told by the seven year old... if the dog was barking, everyone around would have heard it, and everyone would know the FA put it in the overhead bin.

Now, given the outrage on display here, are you telling me nobody on that plane took any action? Nobody protested? Nobody took the dog out? Smells like bovine excrement to me.
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Old 15th Mar 2018, 02:20
  #85 (permalink)  
 
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Megan
The question you're avoiding is:
Would the dog have died if it hadn't been placed in a minimally ventilation overhead?
Neither you nor I can answer that question. The fact that certain airlines ban their carriage and vets refuse to sign paperwork to allow them to fly should be enough information as to the risks posed. The woman had gone through the necessary process to carry an emotional support animal? If not, I don't see that the condition of carriage allow the animal to be in the cabin.
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Old 15th Mar 2018, 06:49
  #86 (permalink)  
 
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Interesting snippet from Lufthansa's website


"The following additional requirement applies to the transport container for the carriage of snub-nosed animals as excess baggage in the air-conditioned cargo hold: the size of the transport container must be chosen so that there is at least a 10-cm distance between the standing animal and the container walls and roof."
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Old 15th Mar 2018, 08:32
  #87 (permalink)  
 
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The regualtions are pretty clear where as the dog should have been in the Cargo Hold or not from the beginning. The FA made the wrong call here, and I doubt that she didn't know there was a dog in the bag.

BUT, it's the owners responsibility to know the breed of the dog and how it behaves and reacts to certain situations. Ultimately, if there was a slightest chance of this going wrong and the dog getting hurt in any way I personally would never take my dog on the flight in the first place. You have a responsibility to feed the dog at home, to take care of it needs and so on - why does this not apply here? The owner is always responisble in the end. If not for the regulations, then atleast for the dogs health and safety...
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Old 15th Mar 2018, 08:49
  #88 (permalink)  
 
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It is highly questionable if the dog should have been accepted for travel in the first place. We already know short nosed breeds have issues travelling as cargo, hence they should be Pet in Cabin, having said that, Pugs, Peeks just about fit in the flexible bags under the seat, unless it is a pup, I doubt a French Bull Dog would fit without a loot of squashing and you can't blame the pet for barking. Was the dog shown at check in? or was it on the lead and the staff shown an empty bag? I have personally seen pax moved around so these dog issues can be resolved, but on a full aircraft its tough. In any event, putting a live animal in the OHB is reckless. Quote: "We have learned that the customer did tell the flight attendant that there was a dog in the carrier. However, our flight attendant did not hear or understand her, and did not knowingly place the dog in the overhead bin," United said in the statement. "As we stated, we take full responsibility and are deeply sorry for this tragic accident."
Incidentally, we do not allow pet in cabin and baby to travel in the same row.
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Old 15th Mar 2018, 08:52
  #89 (permalink)  
 
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There is no evidence to indicate that the family knew that being forced to put their beloved pet in his carrier in the overhead locker would prove fatal to him.

They probably thought that he would have been uncomfortable, but if they'd had any idea of the risk to his life, they would surely have put up a stronger argument - although that's pretty risky on UA with its record of forcible removals.

That picture of the deceased puppy with his little paw raised in a final pathetic struggle to escape from his incarceration is truly heartbreaking. French Bulldogs suffer separation anxiety more than other breeds and the distress this poor animal suffered was truly appalling.

Maggie Gremminger did a good job in publicising this event to the media.
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Old 15th Mar 2018, 09:35
  #90 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Avenger View Post
It is highly questionable if the dog should have been accepted for travel in the first place. We already know short nosed breeds have issues travelling as cargo, hence they should be Pet in Cabin, having said that, Pugs, Peeks just about fit in the flexible bags under the seat, unless it is a pup, I doubt a French Bull Dog would fit without a loot of squashing and you can't blame the pet for barking. Was the dog shown at check in? or was it on the lead and the staff shown an empty bag? I have personally seen pax moved around so these dog issues can be resolved, but on a full aircraft its tough. In any event, putting a live animal in the OHB is reckless. Quote: "We have learned that the customer did tell the flight attendant that there was a dog in the carrier. However, our flight attendant did not hear or understand her, and did not knowingly place the dog in the overhead bin," United said in the statement. "As we stated, we take full responsibility and are deeply sorry for this tragic accident."
Incidentally, we do not allow pet in cabin and baby to travel in the same row.
I presume that only applies if pet and baby belong to different 'owners'? Not the case here.

I wonder why the FA failed to understand the family's protests about the dog? Was there a comprehension issue, ie the family speaking imperfect English?

As for taking the dog down from the locker - the flight was apparently turbulent (according to the child) which suggests the 'fasten seat belts' sign would still be on. UA's well-known attitude to customer 'service' probably makes many passengers deeply nervous about disobeying.
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Old 15th Mar 2018, 10:21
  #91 (permalink)  
 
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In this instance, the airline has accepted responsibility, accepted their member of staff was at fault and accepted they were therefore 100% in the wrong. To therefore continue to suggest on this thread otherwise is absurd.
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Old 15th Mar 2018, 10:56
  #92 (permalink)  
 
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I doubt whether the puppy's death was the result of oxygen deprivation, which I agree is unlikely, but separation anxiety, terror and stress probably caused heart failure, poor little chap.

From CBS: Retired airline captain Denny Kelly says the pitch-black overhead bin is dangerous for any live animal.

"There is no circulation at all in there," Kelly said. "They're scared, their heart rate goes up and they use more oxygen. And there's not enough oxygen in the first place, that just makes it worse."
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Old 15th Mar 2018, 10:56
  #93 (permalink)  
 
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My main concern is that in the event of an evacuation the requirement to leave all belongings behind will be completely ignored by the pet owners and people would be vying with animals in boxes to escape.
It's a fundamental safety issue.
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Old 15th Mar 2018, 11:04
  #94 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by BEagle View Post
I doubt whether the puppy's death was the result of oxygen deprivation, which I agree is unlikely, but separation anxiety, terror and stress probably caused heart failure, poor little chap.

totally with you here old chap - you and a few others are about the only ones who has shown much compassion here for either dog and/or family or both

the rest is pure nonsense and half baked theory and wild suppositions
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Old 15th Mar 2018, 11:09
  #95 (permalink)  
 
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Only animals in the cabin should be seeing eye dogs. All the others AVIH. We don’t have all this drama in Oz thanks to sensible rules.
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Old 15th Mar 2018, 11:25
  #96 (permalink)  
 
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If the pic of the dog carrier next to the pram a few pages back is the actual bag then how the hell was it meant to breath in the first place as I don't see any ventilation holes in it.


A woman with an infant and an 8 year old will come with a heap of hand luggage, nappies, toys etc. so maybe she had already filled the spaces under her and the child's seat and had tried to get away with the dog being in the aisle.


I feel sorry for both the family and the FA but I think the real blame lies with the fact that you can have an animal in the cabin in the first place. Imagine the drama at the escape slide with the pax lining up with dogs, cats, pigs and peacocks (WTF is with that anyway?). I would be pretty p1ssed if I died because of an animal slowing the process down.
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Old 15th Mar 2018, 11:44
  #97 (permalink)  
 
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From Flyer Talk:
On Monday night, a 10-month-old French Bulldog puppy died on a United Airlines flight #1284 after a flight attendant forced the dog to spend a three-hour flight from Houston to New York in the overhead bin.

"I want to help this woman and her daughter. They lost their dog because of an United flight attendant. My heart is broken." MaggieGremminger (@MaggieGrem) March 13, 2018

Maggie Gremminger, a passenger on the flight, released this account of the events:

I was in seat 24A, the woman (mother) was 23C, with her young teenage daughter in seat 23B. The mother had a young daughter and a newborn.
I was sitting in the row behind the woman with the dog, and the gentleman next to me witnessed it all as well. We both overheard/saw the interaction between the flight attendant and the passenger.

I witnessed a United flight attendant instruct a woman to put her dog carrier with live dog in an overhead bin. The passenger adamantly pushed back, sharing verbally that her dog was in the bag. The flight attendant continued to ask the passenger to do it, and she eventually complied. By the end of the flight, the dog was dead. The woman was crying in the airplane aisle on the floor. A fellow passenger offered to hold the newborn while the mother was crying on the floor aisle with the dog. it was this out of body experience of grief.

But holy **** I don’t know how the hell this happened. The flight attendant wouldn’t even NEED to hear there was a dog in the carrier. She was right there looking at the TSA approved bag. (The dog carrier is the black on the ground in the photo. It is clearly a carrier with mesh, which makes me question how the flight attendant could say she didn’t know there was a dog)
I feel angry and powerless and regretful. I know clearly this was not an intent of anyone and yet that flight attendant is responsible for this. How were we to know that maybe there wasn’t a new ventilation system in those bins? It’s not our job to know this information.

I understand emotional distress in a different way right now. I can’t get the image out of my head of the woman on the floor of the airplane aisle, crying and holding that sweet dog.

Immediately after the flight landed, myself and another witness stayed to speak with various United employees. The flight attendant denied knowing it was a dog, but the man seated next to me said he heard the flight attendant respond to the passenger “you need to put your dog up here” – therefore admitting that she knew an animal was in there. Additionally, I’ve been in touch with United via private message on Twitter.

They publicly replied asking me to message them – once private messaging them I shared my confirmation # and flight info. They replied:

“We appreciate you reaching out with more information. Please know that we are in contact with the passenger and thank you for bringing this to our attention.”

I also was offered $75 in credit (along with the gentleman witness) for staying and working with them to share our recollection of events. We both refused the credit.

United has released the following statement:

This was a tragic accident that should never have occurred, as pets should never be placed in the overhead bin. We assume full responsibility for this tragedy and express our deepest condolences to the family and are committed to supporting them. We are thoroughly investigating what occurred to prevent this from ever happening again.

This is the second time the airline has been in recent news because of the fate of an animal on one of their flights. Last year, a dog died while being shipped via their PetSafe cargo service.
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Old 15th Mar 2018, 11:58
  #98 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Zombywoof View Post
Of course I do. I also have compassion for the FA who is being hung out to dry. How do you know it's not the family who is lying, not the FA?
The fact that this allegedly dogless bag barked continuously until it died must have been a bit of a clue, surely? Or are you saying that the typical United FA has the intellect of a 3-day old cheese sandwich?

The FA should be arrested, prosecuted and jailed for animal cruelty (or whatever the colonial equivilent is in that state). So should the captain, because as we are repeatedly told the captain has absolute authority over, and thus absolute responsibility for everything that happens on his/her aeroplane.

And then the family shgould sue the airline, the captain and the FA for the personal pain and suffering resulting from the unlawful torture and execution of their beloved pet. I would assume that the american legal system will award judgements of the order of $500m against each defendant in such a case (based on my extensive study of legal documentaries like LA Law and Suits).

Or is this just another case where the airline and the pilots claim that no matter what happened it was always someone else's fault? I'm amazed so many can pass a class-1 medical despite apparently lacking a spine...

PDR
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Old 15th Mar 2018, 12:05
  #99 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by PDR1 View Post
The fact that this allegedly dogless bag barked continuously until it died
If that's true, then it was a planeload of idiots. Would you sit there and listen to that dog barking without doing something?
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Old 15th Mar 2018, 12:13
  #100 (permalink)  
 
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"I want to help this woman and her daughter. They lost their dog because of an United flight attendant. My heart is broken." MaggieGremminger (@MaggieGrem).

Can't help but feel that its a shame that MaggieGremminger (who by her own admission was in the row behind) sat there for three hours and did nothing. Sometimes, if you're not prepared to be part of the solution then you are part of the problem.
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