Power socket at every seat... possible ?
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2008
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From: Blighty
Power socket at every seat... possible ?
In much of the world, smartphones are owned by a high proportion of the population.
What would it take for the average airline withat least 10 aircraft each having 150 or more seats to install power points at every seat (not just premium classes) and wired to be able to support a smartphone or laptop ? Of course there would have to be some limiter in circuits to prevent a device drawing large amounts of current that would present a clear fire risk.
Is it a mix of apathy and reluctance to spend cash ? Lack of aircraft manufacturer certification ? Fire risk ? Or something else ?
What would it take for the average airline withat least 10 aircraft each having 150 or more seats to install power points at every seat (not just premium classes) and wired to be able to support a smartphone or laptop ? Of course there would have to be some limiter in circuits to prevent a device drawing large amounts of current that would present a clear fire risk.
Is it a mix of apathy and reluctance to spend cash ? Lack of aircraft manufacturer certification ? Fire risk ? Or something else ?
Joined: Jun 2015
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From: Soon to be out of the EU.
This was brought up recently on a thread about streaming content and the lack of at seat power. When you consider BA, LH, U2, FR, MON and WN all have new cabins and none feature at seat power it would seem that we are a long way off having widespread at seat power on short haul.
I would think it's because there's very little revenue gain to be had. I junk SCOOT charge for power access but I still can't see it being much of a money spinner. I know it's a train but OUIGO charge extra for seats with power on french domestic routes. So there is a revenue gain to be had. Wether it covers the cost of installing, maintaining and administering the system and could make a profit, I honestly don't know.
As for long haul, if there's already IFE and the infrastructure is there then surely it wouldn't take too much to install at least a USB.
I would think it's because there's very little revenue gain to be had. I junk SCOOT charge for power access but I still can't see it being much of a money spinner. I know it's a train but OUIGO charge extra for seats with power on french domestic routes. So there is a revenue gain to be had. Wether it covers the cost of installing, maintaining and administering the system and could make a profit, I honestly don't know.
As for long haul, if there's already IFE and the infrastructure is there then surely it wouldn't take too much to install at least a USB.
Paxing All Over The World
Joined: May 2001
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From: Hertfordshire, UK.
My cynical view is that, since this started as being an F and C class special, they are reluctant to now supply all.
Also, to be fair, the real world moves very much faster than the commissioning of a new interior design, it's build and roll out. Leave alone retro fit seating on a D-check.
We may perhaps expect (as per Alaska) that the small carriers can move faster and have more reason to do so.
Airports have the same problem. I recall the last time I went through MUC (about two years ago) in the new Lufty dedicated terminal - no power sockets, nothing in acres of space. Then I went through LGW last year and found 'perch' tables for you to put your lappie or phone on and power sockets with international sockets and (if I recall correctly) USB for free.
Also, to be fair, the real world moves very much faster than the commissioning of a new interior design, it's build and roll out. Leave alone retro fit seating on a D-check.
We may perhaps expect (as per Alaska) that the small carriers can move faster and have more reason to do so.
Airports have the same problem. I recall the last time I went through MUC (about two years ago) in the new Lufty dedicated terminal - no power sockets, nothing in acres of space. Then I went through LGW last year and found 'perch' tables for you to put your lappie or phone on and power sockets with international sockets and (if I recall correctly) USB for free.
Joined: Jan 2000
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From: Asia
A lot of inflight entertainment systems have a USB socket which will charge a phone but not an iPad.
I carry a spare power pack and top off my electronics from that. I would rather have a charged iPhone and plug in the power pack at the airport than plug in the phone and forget it or have it stolen.
I carry a spare power pack and top off my electronics from that. I would rather have a charged iPhone and plug in the power pack at the airport than plug in the phone and forget it or have it stolen.
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From: Confoederatio Helvetica
I believe AC has USB ports on all their long haul aircraft.
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From: Bangkok
The recent flight I took on a Malaysia Airlines 737-800 had USB as part of the IFE and a power socket between the seats. Economy Class
Last edited by Thai Pom; 27th October 2015 at 08:11. Reason: Qualify the Class I was in.
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From: UK
Be aware that some power outlets will provide 'life support' to maintain a battery, rather than the ability to fully charge.
The power supply (on some aircraft) actually moves around the cabin in seat blocks; you'll get power for a period of time, then it goes off, or is reduced, and moves elsewhere.
Worth pointing out ( Sadly, I expect to be flamed for this) that the power on board is not free. It has to come from somewhere and in this case, it is ultimately from the engines. The electrical power required on an A380 to charge 300+ laptops, iPads, phones etc for ten or more hours is not trivial, and combined with the weight of the associated wiring and sockets means that there is a very minor, but existing, fuel penalty. There is also an engineering and maintenance expense. Somebody has to pay for all that.
The power supply (on some aircraft) actually moves around the cabin in seat blocks; you'll get power for a period of time, then it goes off, or is reduced, and moves elsewhere.
Worth pointing out ( Sadly, I expect to be flamed for this) that the power on board is not free. It has to come from somewhere and in this case, it is ultimately from the engines. The electrical power required on an A380 to charge 300+ laptops, iPads, phones etc for ten or more hours is not trivial, and combined with the weight of the associated wiring and sockets means that there is a very minor, but existing, fuel penalty. There is also an engineering and maintenance expense. Somebody has to pay for all that.
Nexialist
Joined: Jul 2003
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From: Milton Keynes
Assuming a power factor of 1 (worst case) a 777 IDG supplies 120kW. 300 seat back units charging 300 phones/tablets/laptops at an assumed 5v and 2A requires 10W each. For 300 outlets that is 3kW, about 2 1/2% of the rated output of 1 IDG.
Total power consumption for journey 30kWh. There will be losses so let's say 50kWh. Assuming USA power pricing at a pessimistic 20c per kWh, that is about $1.00 worth of electricity. About 1/3 of a c each.
I hazard that the airline won't be thinking about the fuel cost of burning a couple of litres of extra jet fuel.
Total power consumption for journey 30kWh. There will be losses so let's say 50kWh. Assuming USA power pricing at a pessimistic 20c per kWh, that is about $1.00 worth of electricity. About 1/3 of a c each.
I hazard that the airline won't be thinking about the fuel cost of burning a couple of litres of extra jet fuel.
Paxing All Over The World
Joined: May 2001
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From: Hertfordshire, UK.
I think the cost problem is in the equiping and, expecially, re-equiping older machines. Also, many carriers already provide a universal power port or 110v US-style 2-pin. That is fine if you have your adapter with you (I always do!) but I can't see them changing those to incorporate USB power.
So we are likely to see a hapzard provision acorss the next 10/15 years. Soon it will be standard fit, in the same way that cars are now providing USB interface with power and often to the ICE as well.
So we are likely to see a hapzard provision acorss the next 10/15 years. Soon it will be standard fit, in the same way that cars are now providing USB interface with power and often to the ICE as well.
Last edited by PAXboy; 1st November 2015 at 16:26.
Joined: Feb 2000
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From: UK
Total power consumption for journey 30kWh. There will be losses so let's say 50kWh. Assuming USA power pricing at a pessimistic 20c per kWh, that is about $1.00 worth of electricity. About 1/3 of a c each.
I hazard that the airline won't be thinking about the fuel cost of burning a couple of litres of extra jet fuel.
I hazard that the airline won't be thinking about the fuel cost of burning a couple of litres of extra jet fuel.
Worth pointing out possibly that as a large Airline, United has 718 aircraft, each operating 3 sectors a day (conservative) , resulting in a global cost of, let's say $2,000 a day using your figures, giving an annual spend of $730K, before maintenance and installation costs, plus the weight of the wiring loom.The point I'm trying to make is that it is not 'free' - It may be perceived as a low cost offering, but that is not actually completely accurate.
Nexialist
Joined: Jul 2003
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From: Milton Keynes
Absolutely agreed, I suppose the point is that fuel is the probably the lowest of the costs involved, in fact there may even be a net benefit fuel wise, as old tech individual screens probably draw more power than Joe Public charging his iPad. The real cost is changing the interior.
In ten years time, the real winners in the maintenance/cost scenario may be those airlines that say "screw the IFE, give them power and internet and let the customers worry about it themselves"
In the interim they can supply iPads or more probably cheapish android tablets to those customers that didn't bring their own.
If I was in charge of a big airlines IFE/cabin department I would be looking to move to that sort of system over the next 2-3 years for any new interiors, perhaps combined with a server shoving a couple of hundered films until in flight internet costs reduce.
In ten years time, the real winners in the maintenance/cost scenario may be those airlines that say "screw the IFE, give them power and internet and let the customers worry about it themselves"
In the interim they can supply iPads or more probably cheapish android tablets to those customers that didn't bring their own.
If I was in charge of a big airlines IFE/cabin department I would be looking to move to that sort of system over the next 2-3 years for any new interiors, perhaps combined with a server shoving a couple of hundered films until in flight internet costs reduce.
Paxing All Over The World
Joined: May 2001
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From: Hertfordshire, UK.
Indeed, the high falutin' IFE systems are (almost certainly) already past their peak. It will be far cheaper to provide material for access via USB, using a tablet or SmartPhone. With a WEB front page and menu options as to what to see/listen to, it will be possible to change the systems very much faster than at present. As Paul Wilson says, the server hardware and absence of all the screens and heavier cabling will save weight.
As we have already read, the LCCs will lead the way with this. But it is going to be driven by the generational change of the pax.
As we have already read, the LCCs will lead the way with this. But it is going to be driven by the generational change of the pax.
Joined: Jan 2006
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From: Auckland, NZ
In ten years time, the real winners in the maintenance/cost scenario may be those airlines that say "screw the IFE, give them power and internet and let the customers worry about it themselves"
In the interim they can supply iPads or more probably cheapish android tablets to those customers that didn't bring their own.
If I was in charge of a big airlines IFE/cabin department I would be looking to move to that sort of system over the next 2-3 years for any new interiors, perhaps combined with a server shoving a couple of hundered films until in flight internet costs reduce.
In the interim they can supply iPads or more probably cheapish android tablets to those customers that didn't bring their own.
If I was in charge of a big airlines IFE/cabin department I would be looking to move to that sort of system over the next 2-3 years for any new interiors, perhaps combined with a server shoving a couple of hundered films until in flight internet costs reduce.
Bring your own device, launch the app, and watch their shows. They can even interrupt it for important announcements.
If you don't have a compatible device then they have some available for rent / included in some price packages.
Joined: Jul 2010
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From: UK. East Mids.
I think it will steadily make its way into most airline cabins.
Despite what was stated above, for example, BA has power in all cabins on the A380, 787, 777-300 and refurbished 777-200 aircraft. One each in First, Club World, World Traveller Plus and in World Traveller there are 2 sockets per row of 3 seats and 3 per row of 4 seats.
So, they are being put in, but as a large capital outlay to install, only as part of new product embodiment, not just a "refresh".
Despite what was stated above, for example, BA has power in all cabins on the A380, 787, 777-300 and refurbished 777-200 aircraft. One each in First, Club World, World Traveller Plus and in World Traveller there are 2 sockets per row of 3 seats and 3 per row of 4 seats.
So, they are being put in, but as a large capital outlay to install, only as part of new product embodiment, not just a "refresh".
Joined: Jan 2007
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From: London
US Airways *had* power at every seat, and ripped it (and the IFE on domestic flights) out when the recession hit to save fuel - the electricity was, I believe, a trivial cost compared to the weight of the wiring.
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