SWA: widow says flight crew wouldn't let her call suicidal husband
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You're right, it doesn't. But what are the chances that the lady who got the text did not show it to the FA to support her plea to make a call?
Let's get away from what we would all have done as the FA, let's think about what we would have done as someone receiving a text like that, with no reason to doubt that the sender meant it.
Are you all seriously suggesting that you would meekly accept an FA telling you that you may not make a call, he will not call the Captain, and you must sit down, keep quiet and do nothing?
If you really mean that you would meekly accept that, while you believe someone you love is killing himself/herself, you are very strange people.
Let's get away from what we would all have done as the FA, let's think about what we would have done as someone receiving a text like that, with no reason to doubt that the sender meant it.
Are you all seriously suggesting that you would meekly accept an FA telling you that you may not make a call, he will not call the Captain, and you must sit down, keep quiet and do nothing?
If you really mean that you would meekly accept that, while you believe someone you love is killing himself/herself, you are very strange people.
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IF the captain was rotating for takeoff, he was too busy
IF the engine had not yet started, he was not too busy to discuss the situation.
Doing the checklists can be started over again.
However, SWA has an on time mentality.
I remember one of our commercials awhile back. Quite good. Little girl loses doll in waiting area, advises FA, FA advises pilot, pilot advises airport ops, ops calls gate agent, gate agent finds doll, baggage handler takes doll via vehicle to plane, pilot opens window, baggage handler tossess doll to pilot, pilot salutes. Doll returned to little girl.
But people do lie about things. We use to call it ''crying wolf too often''.
Recently a famous police brutality case showed a suspect yelling for an inhaler and that he was an asthmatic.
The trouble is I saw this in a "ROCKFORD FILES" episode about 35 years ago and when the suspect was let up, he started fighting, not gasping.
YOU JUST NEVER KNOW>
I have always briefed my girls/fa's that they should call up any time...but they better have a damn good reason if we are rolling fast for takeoff.
IF the engine had not yet started, he was not too busy to discuss the situation.
Doing the checklists can be started over again.
However, SWA has an on time mentality.
I remember one of our commercials awhile back. Quite good. Little girl loses doll in waiting area, advises FA, FA advises pilot, pilot advises airport ops, ops calls gate agent, gate agent finds doll, baggage handler takes doll via vehicle to plane, pilot opens window, baggage handler tossess doll to pilot, pilot salutes. Doll returned to little girl.
But people do lie about things. We use to call it ''crying wolf too often''.
Recently a famous police brutality case showed a suspect yelling for an inhaler and that he was an asthmatic.
The trouble is I saw this in a "ROCKFORD FILES" episode about 35 years ago and when the suspect was let up, he started fighting, not gasping.
YOU JUST NEVER KNOW>
I have always briefed my girls/fa's that they should call up any time...but they better have a damn good reason if we are rolling fast for takeoff.
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Capot,
Had the passenger addressed the cabin crew, to the effect, "I need to deplane this aircraft NOW" then that is a matter that any reasonable F/A would have addressed to the Captain.
But she didn't, she wanted to stay on board but break regulations by using her mobile phone whilst continuing on her journey and the F/A was quite correct to deny that.
That said she was under extreme stress whilst not thinking clearly whilst it's very easy for "us", with a knowledge of procedures, to clarify how she should have acted.
P.S. One point that seems to have been missed here ... She'd received a suicidal SMS and was about to make an immediate reply when disciplined to switch her phone off ... So she'd already been using her mobile, to receive the SMS, after being told to switch it off so it's probable that the F/A was already miffed with her and had she respected FAA and SWA regulations in the first instance she would never received the SMS.
Had the passenger addressed the cabin crew, to the effect, "I need to deplane this aircraft NOW" then that is a matter that any reasonable F/A would have addressed to the Captain.
But she didn't, she wanted to stay on board but break regulations by using her mobile phone whilst continuing on her journey and the F/A was quite correct to deny that.
That said she was under extreme stress whilst not thinking clearly whilst it's very easy for "us", with a knowledge of procedures, to clarify how she should have acted.
P.S. One point that seems to have been missed here ... She'd received a suicidal SMS and was about to make an immediate reply when disciplined to switch her phone off ... So she'd already been using her mobile, to receive the SMS, after being told to switch it off so it's probable that the F/A was already miffed with her and had she respected FAA and SWA regulations in the first instance she would never received the SMS.
Last edited by Phileas Fogg; 17th May 2015 at 02:12. Reason: To add P.S.
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But she didn't, she wanted to stay on board but break regulations by using her mobile phone whilst continuing on her journey and the F/A was quite correct to deny that.
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Classic PPRuNe. Lots of comment on the lines of "I would have done that" and "They should have done this". I suspect no-one commenting here truly knows ALL the facts from all sides.
To paraphrase the old Vietnam thing - "You weren't there, man, you weren't there!"
To paraphrase the old Vietnam thing - "You weren't there, man, you weren't there!"
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she wanted to stay on board but break regulations by using her mobile phone whilst continuing on her journey
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Capot,
Hello sir ... Do you understand English?
The report headlines and states that the crew wouldn't allow her to call suicidal husband, no mention that she displayed to the crew his SMS nor that she asked, and the crew denied her, deplaning the aircraft.
You must learn to stop assuming and/or telling porkies to suit your own argument Capot!
Hello sir ... Do you understand English?
The report headlines and states that the crew wouldn't allow her to call suicidal husband, no mention that she displayed to the crew his SMS nor that she asked, and the crew denied her, deplaning the aircraft.
You must learn to stop assuming and/or telling porkies to suit your own argument Capot!
Last edited by Phileas Fogg; 17th May 2015 at 14:23.
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Now you have a mentally unstable, distraught, stressed and distracted passenger onboard and you consider that perfectly acceptable and safe.
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...no mention that she displayed to the crew his SMS....
As I have suggested before, put yourself in her position if you can. Then think of what you would have done. Maybe the jobsworth's mantra "roolz is roolz" would not be quite so important to you in that situation.
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Capot,
What we don't know is just how soon before take-off it was, her not deplaning the aircraft does suggest that they had departed from the terminal building though.
During the taxying out when the cabin crew are demonstrating the emergency procedures I'm of the impression that all passengers are required to pay attention whilst keeping quiet, perhaps this is an FAA regulation.
Thereafter, during the take-off run, rotate and initial climb, is it reasonable to allow passenger(s) to chatter away on their mobile phone(s)?
So to allow her usage of her mobile phone, whilst staying on the flight, would suggest to me that they would have needed to delay the flight whilst allowing her to make and finish her call!
What we don't know is just how soon before take-off it was, her not deplaning the aircraft does suggest that they had departed from the terminal building though.
During the taxying out when the cabin crew are demonstrating the emergency procedures I'm of the impression that all passengers are required to pay attention whilst keeping quiet, perhaps this is an FAA regulation.
Thereafter, during the take-off run, rotate and initial climb, is it reasonable to allow passenger(s) to chatter away on their mobile phone(s)?
So to allow her usage of her mobile phone, whilst staying on the flight, would suggest to me that they would have needed to delay the flight whilst allowing her to make and finish her call!
These things will happen because so many passengers abuse the privilege of using phones on board planes.
With regard to this case - 'just before take off' - we don't know any other details. How soon? Why not call? Why not alert the cabin crew and ask to leave the plane / alert the pilot?
Some one texting a suicide note when the receiving part could possibly be already in the air / not at the airport / in the toilet...?
With regard to this case - 'just before take off' - we don't know any other details. How soon? Why not call? Why not alert the cabin crew and ask to leave the plane / alert the pilot?
Some one texting a suicide note when the receiving part could possibly be already in the air / not at the airport / in the toilet...?
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I think this thread has probably gone as far as it can go with all sides having had their say. The nature of the Internet is that we shall (almost certainly) never hear of this again but it has given the chance for everyone to consider what they might do.
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During the taxying out when the cabin crew are demonstrating the emergency procedures I'm of the impression that all passengers are required to pay attention whilst keeping quiet, perhaps this is an FAA regulation.
Thereafter, during the take-off run, rotate and initial climb, is it reasonable to allow passenger(s) to chatter away on their mobile phone(s)?
So to allow her usage of her mobile phone, whilst staying on the flight, would suggest to me that they would have needed to delay the flight whilst allowing her to make and finish her call!
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The only thing I would say is that I sympathise with the woman who had to sit on a flight after receiving a text like that.
Whether she was prevented for a good/bad reason that would be like a form of mental torture.
Whether she was prevented for a good/bad reason that would be like a form of mental torture.
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David ... 100% Agreed
In the UK military there is a thing called "self inflicted injury" ... i.e. If one goes sunbathing then one doesn't dare to report sick for being sunburned.
At which point SWA tell punters to switch off mobile phones and at which point this lady still had her phone switched on are unclear but there is a reasonable chance that she received her husband's SMS at a point when she should have had her phone switched off.
That would be "self inflicted injury".
P.S. My UK military training was during the summer of 1976 ... We all got sunburned and without even trying to
In the UK military there is a thing called "self inflicted injury" ... i.e. If one goes sunbathing then one doesn't dare to report sick for being sunburned.
At which point SWA tell punters to switch off mobile phones and at which point this lady still had her phone switched on are unclear but there is a reasonable chance that she received her husband's SMS at a point when she should have had her phone switched off.
That would be "self inflicted injury".
P.S. My UK military training was during the summer of 1976 ... We all got sunburned and without even trying to
Paxing All Over The World
My work involves meeting recently bereaved families, including by suicide. Sending a message when the receiver is expected to not be able to receive it is well known. Further, people waiting until the person that loves them most is away, before proceeding with their plan, is also well known.
Suicide is very complex, has long roots and leaves enormous damage that cannot be quantified for a decade or more.
This women, will forever remember the moment she read the message, as much as if she had received it following the arrival of her flight at its destination.
Suicide is very complex, has long roots and leaves enormous damage that cannot be quantified for a decade or more.
This women, will forever remember the moment she read the message, as much as if she had received it following the arrival of her flight at its destination.
If she had a partner that unstable - we can equally reason why she was away travelling. I don't want to be callous but we don't know enough about this case to make an absolute judgement.