Any ATOL experts?

[ExXB]

So we're talking to a UK agent /Tour operator about a package tour to Male and a two week cruise. We wanted flights from Geneva - and they said 'for ATOL reasons it has to be a flight from the UK.

The flights offered are a back haul at origin, because we have to buy tickets to get to LHR and at destination as the flights connect at Columbo. They don't appear interested in selling us the GVA-LON flights either.

So I asked why cant you sell us an EK fare from Geneva and use that as the air component of the package. Oh, no they say, has to be flight from the UK. Otherwise it's not ATOL protected.

Anyone know if this is right? I suspect they are being less than honest, and make more by selling flights out of the UK, and maybe nothing for selling flights out of Switzerland.

And do I really need ATOL in this day and age? Provided I have adequate insurance.

[Hartington]

Do you need an ATOL? Probably not. Does the average man in the street need an ATOL? Quite probably since he'll buy the cheapest insurance (finding out how bad that is if he makes a claim) and the levy to fund ATOL is small enough he won't use it.

I think your tour operator hid behind ATOL to a degree. The ATOL is intended to cover the british consumer/resident. If you're living in Switzerland it's arguable it doesn't cover you. Refusing your booking might be a way of having to explain why you aren't covered.

[west lakes]

What is ATOL?

ATOL protects you when you book a holiday with a UK travel company. It
ensures you do not lose money or become stranded abroad if your travel company
collapses.
ATOL stands for Air Travel Organiser’s Licence and is backed by
the UK Government.

I somehow cannot see the UK government wanting it to protect travellers outside the UK

[ExXB]

That is likely to be true. But they would protect me if the ticket origin was London rather than Geneva, despite my nationality. And the Agency charges a fee for this ATOL "protection".

But I'm uneasy, and question the professionalism of this agency, who tells a non-UK resident to buy their package with a UK origin and defends that by saying (reading between the lines) "you better inconvenience yourselves, because then you will be protected when we go bankrupt", and we will charge you (another) fee for the privilege.

Does anyone know if airlines, such as the ME3, would pay a commission to a UK agency selling a Swiss origin ticket?

I'm just trying to figure out why this agency believes we should do it their way ...

[Paul Wilson]

There have been instances in the past (and probably present) of agencies emblazoned with ATOL stickers on the windows selling non-ATOL protected holidays.
My understanding is for ATOL protection you need 3 elements , normally flight, ground transport (car hire or bus transfer) and accommodation. Some agencies were getting around paying the fee for protection by just selling flight and accommodation. This ended up in people losing their holidays and money when an airline went bust.
My suspicion is that the agency you are using has implemented a strict "we only sell ATOL protected products" policy to avoid potential adverse publicity, and also to protect their customers.

You don't fit into a convenient box, as you are wanting to start from Geneva. To be blunt the "living in Geneva and wanting to book a tour with a UK agent" market is not huge, and so they probably do not have policies in place to cover it. Seriously doubt it's anything to do with commission.

[Heathrow Harry]

Information for Consumers | ATOL

also

"Travel firms established in other countries within Europe* are not required by law to hold an ATOL when they sell flight-inclusive holidays in the UK. However, under European legislation, travel firms selling package holidays within the EU must provide financial protection to consumers. In these circumstances, the consumer must go to the protection authority of the country in which the business is based for that protection. Not all countries operate comprehensive protection schemes and in some cases financial protection will be more limited than ATOL. If your holiday is not ATOL protected, the CAA will not be able to assist you and you will need to deal with the protection authority of that European country. Back to top"

[ExXB]

Thanks again guys.

Agent has come back and has quoted a price excluding air (who would have thought one could find an airfare to Malé and back for a hundred squids? - That's the 'discount' they are offering).

And they say they 'can't' book a ticket from outside the UK.

Pretty well decided that these guys either don't have the requisite skills to be an accredited agency or are out to rip us off. Regardless they are not getting our business.

I'm not certain if the the EU regulation on 'protection' applies to Switzerland. It may but it may not have been included in one of the hundreds of bilateral accords between the two. I think it does due to the proximity of some Swiss airports to the border (one actually is in France!). Not uncommon for a French resident to fly from Geneva. Something I need to check ...

[mixture]

ExXB,

You may read the relevant legislation here http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2...0121017_en.pdf.

24.—(1) Subject to paragraphs (3), (4) and (5), a Flight-Plus exists when paragraphs (a) to (d)
are satisfied—
(a) flight accommodation is made available which includes as a minimum—
(i) a flight out of the United Kingdom; or
(ii) a flight into the United Kingdom where the consumer has commenced the journey in the United Kingdom and departed the United Kingdom using another means of transport; and
(b) living accommodation outside the United Kingdom or self-drive car hire outside the United Kingdom or both is requested to be booked and is supplied by any person under or in connection with the contract for such flight accommodation; and
(c) such living accommodation or self-drive car hire is requested to be booked by or on behalf of the consumer on the same day as the consumer requests to book the flight accommodation, the previous day or the next day;
(d) the arrangement covers a period of more than twenty-four hours or includes overnight living accommodation.

I'm no lawyer or ATOL expert, but I'm thinking its nothing to do with ATOL per se. It would seem there's nothing stopping them (other than perhaps pricing stuff) doing what you want, but they know you won't be covered by ATOL if you do and so perhaps their company policy is only to sell with ATOL protection ....

Have you offered to send them proof of your insurance cover and put it in writing that you won't expect any of the ATOL privileges to be accorded to you ?

Last but not least, do you really need the package ? Is it really that much cheaper ?

[ExXB]

Mixture,
Thanks for your post.

No, we don't need ATOL. Didn't ask for it, got adequate annual insurance here that would cover flights/land arrangements regardless of point of origin/sale.

In fact, if given the option, and if we were to book for flights departing the UK I would have asked if we could opt out of ATOL, and the 'fee' they charge for this. (I don't think that is possible, but why is the UK government telling me I have to have 'insurance' when I don't want it?)

When the Agent said the 'couldn't' book us flights out of Switzerland I became suspicious. To me this says that they are not IATA accredited and are buying tickets directly from the airline or through another agent. They also appear to be lazy, even if means they lose a sale. If they are not accredited that reduces my confidence in them significantly.

We are looking at other sources for our 'package' including booking directly with each supplier. We won't be booking through this 'agency'.