12 hr ramp delay
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12 hr ramp delay
Gents, the AP is reporting that a certain unmentionable ME carrier had a 12 hr delay on the ramp before leaving to the west coast of the US. That seems a bit far fetched. The report suggests that the plane was away from the gate the whole time, which implies the same crew was on board. Surely this can't be right?
Passengers complain of 12-hour wait on tarmac (from @AP) AP News : Passengers complain of 12-hour wait on tarmac
Passengers complain of 12-hour wait on tarmac (from @AP) AP News : Passengers complain of 12-hour wait on tarmac
The German press reports that the 7 hour flight turned into a 30 hour endurance contest.
The initial 12 hour take off delay, because of ground fog, was then compounded by a diversion to Vienna because a passenger had died in flight.
The arriving passengers praised the crew, but had less kindly words for the initial airport authorities.
The initial 12 hour take off delay, because of ground fog, was then compounded by a diversion to Vienna because a passenger had died in flight.
The arriving passengers praised the crew, but had less kindly words for the initial airport authorities.
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Two different flights, united by an amazing delay:
- one to Düsseldorf (Germany), arrived 30 hours late, with an overnight in Vienna due deceased pax and then crew out-of-hours (Source: Der Spiegel, German newsrag, link below)
- the other one the San Francisco, as referenced above
Der Spiegel writes of widespread fog in the Gulf region but also says pax were on board for 13 hours. Link here. How this works with crew times I know not...
- one to Düsseldorf (Germany), arrived 30 hours late, with an overnight in Vienna due deceased pax and then crew out-of-hours (Source: Der Spiegel, German newsrag, link below)
- the other one the San Francisco, as referenced above
Der Spiegel writes of widespread fog in the Gulf region but also says pax were on board for 13 hours. Link here. How this works with crew times I know not...
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Passengers complain of 12-hour tarmac wait
I won't name the airline as it is against this site's policy, but 12 hours, sitting in a plane on the tarmac does do this airline's credibility any good.
Passengers complain of 12-hour tarmac wait | Stuff.co.nz
Passengers complain of 12-hour tarmac wait | Stuff.co.nz
Passengers complain of 12-hour tarmac wait
FWIW another flight of that airline not to be named bound to Dusseldorf suffered a similar delay... and then they had an in flight diversion due to a deceased passenger... All in all a 30h delay! Ouch
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The airline's response, "apologized for travelers' inconvenience, saying the problem was largely beyond its control and it affected other airlines as well," shows they clearly do not understand what the problem was.
I don't think anyone took issue with the delay itself, which of course was beyond the airline's control (to the extent the crew change didn't make it worse). But forcing passengers to stay on the plane that long and then not provide necessities is beyond terrible. In fact, in the US it's illegal.
I don't think anyone took issue with the delay itself, which of course was beyond the airline's control (to the extent the crew change didn't make it worse). But forcing passengers to stay on the plane that long and then not provide necessities is beyond terrible. In fact, in the US it's illegal.
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Similar fog delays can occur at other UAE airports. Pax travelling at this time of the year to or via this area should think carefully before booking. They should also be aware that EU Regulation 261 only applies on 'third-country' airlines flights FROM an EU airport.
These airlines may have good prices and service, but when things go pear shaped, you are ...
These airlines may have good prices and service, but when things go pear shaped, you are ...
If the punters were held on board prior to their flight to SFO as reported, it's an appalling way to treat passengers. I hope the travellers are not called "guests"! What an advertisement for an award winning airline? 
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Gonna have a guess that this flight was "Pre cleared" by US Customs and Immigration? If that's the case it may be that Uncle Sam wouldn't let them back in (as in deplane the pax and crew at a gate, and then they need a place to put them all) because that would require another two clearances…one would be back into the UAE, and then another to clear them all back out again. No room and time for all that, so it would seem. If I recall, it's SOP at US pre clear stations. (Been there done that)
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Meanwhile ...
Meanwhile {...} has published its schedule for Sunday to allow the airline to recover from operational disruption caused by the severe fog at Abu Dhabi International Airport.
Twenty return flights have been cancelled, with a number of flights subject to revised times.
The airline is urging any passengers who can defer their travel to, from, or through Abu Dhabi, up to and including Tuesday, January 6 to rebook on later flights.
Twenty return flights have been cancelled, with a number of flights subject to revised times.
The airline is urging any passengers who can defer their travel to, from, or through Abu Dhabi, up to and including Tuesday, January 6 to rebook on later flights.
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Having worked in Abu Dhabi for some years, I would advise caution before assuming that it was the airline alone that refused to allow the passengers back into the terminal.
There are other agencies that could, and probably did, have a say in the matter.
Unfortunately, it is a Middle Eastern (and Asian) custom to seek to deflect a confontation by lying about when something will happen. After a few years I was doing it myself. Anyone with experience knows that "in twenty minutes, for sure" means "I haven't a clue when it will happen".
And in any case, predicting the future is sacriligeous. So don't expect people to do it.
There are other agencies that could, and probably did, have a say in the matter.
Unfortunately, it is a Middle Eastern (and Asian) custom to seek to deflect a confontation by lying about when something will happen. After a few years I was doing it myself. Anyone with experience knows that "in twenty minutes, for sure" means "I haven't a clue when it will happen".
And in any case, predicting the future is sacriligeous. So don't expect people to do it.
Last edited by Capot; 5th Jan 2015 at 11:17.
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Tarmac delays
Tarmac delay rules are for foreign airlines at US airports? Outbound only, not inbound?
U.S. Department of Transportation Expands Airline Passenger Protections | Department of Transportation
Tarmac Delays. The new rule expands the existing ban on lengthy tarmac delays to cover foreign airlines’ operations at U.S. airports and establishes a four hour hard time limit on tarmac delays for international flights of U.S. and foreign airlines, with exceptions allowed only for safety, security or air traffic control-related reasons. Carriers must also ensure that passengers stuck on the tarmac are provided adequate food and water after two hours, as well as working lavatories and any necessary medical treatment.
The extended tarmac delays experienced by passengers on international flights operated by foreign carriers at New York’s JFK Airport during the December 2010 blizzard was an important factor in the Department’s decision to extend the tarmac delay provisions to foreign air carriers and establish a four hour tarmac delay limit for international flights.
U.S. Department of Transportation Expands Airline Passenger Protections | Department of Transportation
Tarmac Delays. The new rule expands the existing ban on lengthy tarmac delays to cover foreign airlines’ operations at U.S. airports and establishes a four hour hard time limit on tarmac delays for international flights of U.S. and foreign airlines, with exceptions allowed only for safety, security or air traffic control-related reasons. Carriers must also ensure that passengers stuck on the tarmac are provided adequate food and water after two hours, as well as working lavatories and any necessary medical treatment.
The extended tarmac delays experienced by passengers on international flights operated by foreign carriers at New York’s JFK Airport during the December 2010 blizzard was an important factor in the Department’s decision to extend the tarmac delay provisions to foreign air carriers and establish a four hour tarmac delay limit for international flights.
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Never mind 12 hours; how about 8 days?
That is what passengers allege they were told by airport staff at Mumbai.
Their Air India flight from Goa was late arriving and they all missed their BA connection to LHR.
From the BBC report it seems the staff at the airport may have provided some entertainment for the passengers by having a "screaming match".
BBC News - British Airways passengers stranded in Mumbai Airport
That is what passengers allege they were told by airport staff at Mumbai.
Their Air India flight from Goa was late arriving and they all missed their BA connection to LHR.
From the BBC report it seems the staff at the airport may have provided some entertainment for the passengers by having a "screaming match".
BBC News - British Airways passengers stranded in Mumbai Airport
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What can/should PAX do?
Just read this story in the newspapers here, including a first hand report of a passenger. Do pax just have to live with it (unless they are in the US)? I guess one could demand to exit the plane, but this would then result in a forfeited ticket (if exiting is possible at all) . Do pax have any other means of reacting to such a situation without forfeiting the ticket and faking a health condition? I've once experienced a 4 hour wait on a Brazilian airport (yes, including tropical heat), just before pax started a riot, the plane could take off after all... Granted, flying is more subject to favorable weather conditions and such, but 14 hours of wait inside the plane? Seriously?
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I guess one could demand to exit the plane, but this would then result in a forfeited ticket (if exiting is possible at all)
Their playground, their rules.
In such places and situations, it's always best to relax and go with the flow. If you don't like that, then you probably shouldn't be there.
However, saying that to visiting businessmen from Europe and the USA, in Abu Dhabi when it was still a new experience for many, when their schedules got upset, often seemed to make them crosser. I have no idea why.
Last edited by Capot; 5th Jan 2015 at 18:20.
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The AUH airport in it's present state is a disaster,on a recent flight from europe, we arrived on time to AUH, waited 55minutes for a bus to come to the plane to bring us to the terminal, big backlog at transit security area, then gate staff,,NOT airline but ground handling staff bollicking me for not arriving at the gate "in time" as it was my fault...yes...it was my fault for travelling through AUH..never again if at all possible...this was on a clear day..ineptitude of the ground handling agency makes this airport on the top of my "avoid" list for sure, shame, because I rather enjoy the airline