Pax life vests not MEL?
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Joined: Jan 2008
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From: Los Angeles
Pax life vests not MEL?
Out of DUB a couple of days ago, I noted a life vest on the floor in front of me, got an FA's attention, explained where it was found, handed it to her. She went off with it as if it were an empty coffee cup to be disposed of. And that was the last of it.
Assuming it was indeed off the seat in front of me, in the unlikely event we ditched enroute to London the person seated there was needing to be an excellent swimmer. So I'm surprised they didn't get someone to check and re-attach it before departure.
Assuming it was indeed off the seat in front of me, in the unlikely event we ditched enroute to London the person seated there was needing to be an excellent swimmer. So I'm surprised they didn't get someone to check and re-attach it before departure.
Joined: Apr 2014
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From: Miles from where I want to be.
Depending on the route taken you may not be any more than 50nm from land then technically you don't need them. However notwithstanding this there is nothing to say it must be stowed anywhere in particular just that there must be sufficient quantities requires. After all infant life jackets and life cots are stowed away from the seating and would need to be distributed.
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From: Europe
I tap the underside of the seat to check that all is well, as much in hope one day, to win an upgrade as anything else
Paxing All Over The World
Joined: May 2001
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From: Hertfordshire, UK.
The only time I've checked for a life jacket and not found it - was on a flight where we would be over water about 15 seconds after rotation. Bearing in mind this is a critical time of any flight and that we would be crossing more water on our way home, I told the FA when they were checking seat belts secure.
She seemed entirely disinterested in the fact. No replacement was provided.
I am WELL aware that the utility of such devices is low and the liklihood of a 'good' ditching and departure of pax in the way illustrated on the card = low. BUT I would like to maximise my chances! In the flight in question, had we crashed after rotation, it would have been a low altitude and low speed event and thus more survivable.
I won't bother naming the carrier as some folks would say that I was picking on them,
but the carrier is irrelevant - the jacket should have been replaced.
She seemed entirely disinterested in the fact. No replacement was provided.
I am WELL aware that the utility of such devices is low and the liklihood of a 'good' ditching and departure of pax in the way illustrated on the card = low. BUT I would like to maximise my chances! In the flight in question, had we crashed after rotation, it would have been a low altitude and low speed event and thus more survivable.
I won't bother naming the carrier as some folks would say that I was picking on them,
but the carrier is irrelevant - the jacket should have been replaced.
Paxing All Over The World
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 10,842
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From: Hertfordshire, UK.
Thanks spannersatcx for that 'encouraging' information! So as long as the spares can be found and matched with the seat occupants who do not have any life jackets BEFORE they are needed ??? 
My guess is that the CC are going to be just a tad busy during the prep for an 'emergency landing on water' (aka Ditching) but it's good to know.
My guess is that the CC are going to be just a tad busy during the prep for an 'emergency landing on water' (aka Ditching) but it's good to know.
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From: Confoederatio Helvetica
Several explanations were offered by investigators. “Although the accident flight attendants did not command passengers to don their life vests before the water impact, two passengers realized that they would be landing in water and retrieved and donned their life vests before impact, and a third passenger attempted to retrieve his life vest but was unable to do so and, therefore, abandoned his attempt,” the report said. “Many passengers reported that their immediate concern after the water impact was to evacuate as quickly as possible, that they forgot about or were unaware that a life vest was under their seat, or that they did not want to delay their egress to get one. Other passengers stated that they wanted to retrieve their life vest but could not remember where it was stowed.” In all, 101 life vests were left stowed under passenger seats.
This aircraft (One of 20, out of total of 75 A320's in US's fleet) was lucky to have life jackets and rafts ...
Paxing All Over The World
Joined: May 2001
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From: Hertfordshire, UK.
Lord Spandex Masher I think your point refers to me? The answer is that I weighed up the following:
- The likelihood of a ditching
- The disruption to my partner and fellow pax if I protested
- Understanding that their comment "OK" would not result in a lifejacket, given the CC not being able to converse easily in English
- The likelihood that I would be accused of preventing the CC from doing their duty and might even be turned off the flight
Joined: Aug 2002
Aviation Qualifications: PPL
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From: South of France
As someone famous once said, 'Only after facing death is it possible to fully appreciate life'
A missing life jacket in an aeroplane seat must be up there among such adrenalin charged experiences.
A missing life jacket in an aeroplane seat must be up there among such adrenalin charged experiences.
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 18
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From: UK
On a slightly deviant note
I attended the BA 1/2 day crash course (wrong name but ....) some years ago and realised then that these life jackets are both blessing and deadly menace.
We discussed the, at that time, recent water landing and drowning of pax in the cabin where 'pax' had inflated their vests before exiting. The water ingress had forced them to the ceiling.
I remain deeply sceptical that the life vests are fit for purpose in respect or early accidental release.
Imagine a sea of bodies with hands and arms failing near those little red toggles that dangle without any protection. One pull and that's it. The damn thing's inflated.
I got to pull the cord on one and, after the initial shock of the intense cold, I tried taking the bloody thing off after strapping it tightly to myself! Not easy. Not at all easy.
Lord help anyone needing this thing. I am sure it is necessary but not at all sure it is still fit for purpose. Will it take a court case to bring design rethinking to the humble life vest?
I attended the BA 1/2 day crash course (wrong name but ....) some years ago and realised then that these life jackets are both blessing and deadly menace.
We discussed the, at that time, recent water landing and drowning of pax in the cabin where 'pax' had inflated their vests before exiting. The water ingress had forced them to the ceiling.
I remain deeply sceptical that the life vests are fit for purpose in respect or early accidental release.
Imagine a sea of bodies with hands and arms failing near those little red toggles that dangle without any protection. One pull and that's it. The damn thing's inflated.
I got to pull the cord on one and, after the initial shock of the intense cold, I tried taking the bloody thing off after strapping it tightly to myself! Not easy. Not at all easy.
Lord help anyone needing this thing. I am sure it is necessary but not at all sure it is still fit for purpose. Will it take a court case to bring design rethinking to the humble life vest?
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 18
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From: UK
I don't think you will find that safety is treated as a matter of affordability in aviation. But I agree it needs to be as inexpensive as possible.
Let's see about some options;
Let's see about some options;
- place the cord in some form of pocket where it cant be grabbed by someone else climbing all over you but is easy to get at
- Velcro the toggle onto the inside of the vest rather than letting it dangle
- make it a 2 action system to inflate the vest
- make it only inflate when in the water
- some other great idea from someone out there. Maybe an idea that costs very little but saves you
Joined: Apr 2014
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From: Miles from where I want to be.
Unfortunately cost does have a significant impact otherwise we'd all have smoke hoods and every plane would be fitted with defribs, life rafts and survival kits.
Your example assumes accidental inflation of the life vest. If the incident you refer to is the one I have in mind then the problem was passengers deliberately and concisely inflated the vests prior to touchdown sealing their own fate.
I should imagine the amount being accidentally inflated would be minuscule and even then there is a way to deflate by using the tube. With your suggestions making it more difficult to operate the vest it is not hard to envisage that more people will die due to not being able to inflate the vest as opposed to those whose life jacket inflated by accident and not their own doing.
The current jackets are just fine if you follow instructions and use the correctly. All I can see with your suggestion is lots of people bobbing in the water frantically trying to inflate the jacket before they succumb.
Your example assumes accidental inflation of the life vest. If the incident you refer to is the one I have in mind then the problem was passengers deliberately and concisely inflated the vests prior to touchdown sealing their own fate.
I should imagine the amount being accidentally inflated would be minuscule and even then there is a way to deflate by using the tube. With your suggestions making it more difficult to operate the vest it is not hard to envisage that more people will die due to not being able to inflate the vest as opposed to those whose life jacket inflated by accident and not their own doing.
The current jackets are just fine if you follow instructions and use the correctly. All I can see with your suggestion is lots of people bobbing in the water frantically trying to inflate the jacket before they succumb.