Window blinds up on takeoff and landing

[Helo]

On a recent BA flight to and from Houston, I was surprised to see that there was no call for window blinds to be put up for takeoff and landing. I thought that was a requirement so crew and passengers could see the situation outside in case of evacuation.

Have regulations changed (admittedly it's been some time since I have flown long haul), or was it never a requirement?

Many thanks

[mixture]

and passengers could see the situation outside in case of evacuation

Might I suggest that in the event of an evacuation, passengers follow the lawful orders of the crew instead of rubbernecking and gawping at what is going on outside.

[Basil]

I'd prefer windows clear for takeoff and landing so that I and the CC can see outside other than through the little door windows.
I may be wrong but ISTR that was, at one time, an airline requirement.
If it is no longer so then I would welcome it's return.

[Hotel Tango]

Poor reply mixture! How about CC (and pax) being able to look out and assess any fire risk?

[mixture]

Poor reply mixture! How about CC (and pax) being able to look out and assess any fire risk?

(a) Please note I highlighted the words "and passengers could see the situation outside in case of evacuation" in my above comment, I deliberately omitted the word crew from the quoted text !

(b) I think you'll find crew are better trained to look out and assess risks than passengers who ... as I said... should be obeying evacuation instructions, not sitting there gawping and trying to make their own silly little assessments.

[Hotel Tango]

I think you'll find crew are better trained to look out and assess risks than passengers

In a perfect world, yes. In the real world it may seriously depend where and with whom you are flying. Don't for one moment think that all CC are trained to the same high standards that perhaps you are accustomed to! And don't be so arrogant to think that ALL pax are stupid. They can, for instance, be air crew too. I for one will comply with crew command when I'm satisfied it is SAFE to do so and not simply obey blindly.

So, bottom line, yes I want to be able to see out during take-off and landing, period.

[DaveReidUK]

Might I suggest that in the event of an evacuation, passengers follow the lawful orders of the crew instead of rubbernecking and gawping at what is going on outside.

The logical extension of that argument is that it should therefore be mandatory to have the blinds closed during takeoff and landing.

Good luck with that.

[Helo]

Jeez Mixture, what did I do to deserve a reply like that?? What exactly about my question wasn't clear?

If I am evacuating a plane, trust me I'll be sure to glance, however quickly out a window to see what's going on. Not linger, loiter, stare, rubberneck or otherwise slow down or impede evacuation. And if my glance is while the aircraft is still moving, that again will not hinder anything but I will be gaining valuable information myself on the environment into which I am about to go.

Besides, it wouldn't be the first time crew have made errors in evacuation. Didn't the pilots of Asiana 214 initially tell passengers to stay put after the crash landing ...

[S.o.S.]

bear in mind that this subject has been debated in this forum a number of times. If you look at this thread: http://www.pprune.org/passengers-slf...htime-ldg.html (from the FAQ above) in that thread, someone kindly found another four threads on this topic.

[mixture]

Don't for one moment think that all CC are trained to the same high standards that perhaps you are accustomed to!

Well, yes I do pick who I fly with.

And don't be so arrogant to think that ALL pax are stupid.

I don't, and "stupid" is the wrong word.

We're talking ability to assess risk... and I think you'll likely find that if you take a walk down the aisle of an average flight you'll probably find you can only count the number who are capable adequate assessment on one hand.

They can, for instance, be air crew too. I for one will comply with crew command when I'm satisfied it is SAFE to do so and not simply obey blindly.

Well that's just fine, but do us all a favour and sit yourself in the window seat... because quite frankly given the limited view you can get out of the cabin windows anyway I will most likely be already trampling over you if you are sitting there craning your neck trying to look out the window whilst everyone else on board is already half way down the slides.

As I said, I pick my airlines carefully and so am perfectly satisfied that the relevant risk assessments will have been correctly made.... thus I'm not going to waste time contemplating things when the time comes.

And anyway, what are you going to do if, let's say, your personal risk assessment tells you there's too much fire outside for you to evacuate ? Are you going to sit there, wait until the flames and smoke develop a bit more, and burn to death instead ?

[Helo]

I was specifically asking if regulations had changed recently, I wasn't particularly wanting to rehash all the well worn material in threads over the past 10+ years.

Never mind, I'll just ask CC next time.

[Hotel Tango]

Don't worry mixture, I am generally in the window seat, so you won't need to trample all over me! As for the rest of your increasing silliness, not worth answering.

[fa2fi]

Ts situational awareness. If something goes wrong you need to know what the situation is outside. I don't miss the tutting, looks or sarcy comments when asking people politely to raise the window shade. The 787 dim able windows must be a flight attendant's dream.

As far as I know the BA safety video tells you to do it. Was this a 787 fight?

[easyflyer83]

It is the crews decision to evacuate. Primarily it will be the flight crews decision to evacuate and if clearly catastrophic, the cabin crews. In the event of a clearly catastrophic situation and with no clear commands from the cabin/flight crew then it is the pax who will undoubtedly decide.

As for the window blinds. Many of you forget that pax are charged with opening certain exits and so whilst it isn't their decision to evacuate, it will be them who assess whether it is safe to open and use that window. Hence the window blinds need to be left open.

Leaving the blinds open also helps the fire services to assess conditions inside.

Generally, crew are all trained to the same standards when it comes to emergency scenarios but as with any job, some crew are better than others.

[500N]

should be obeying evacuation instructions, not sitting there gawping and trying to make their own silly little assessments.

Mixture

So how come when the nice CC brief the three of US by the over wing exit
they specifically mention to look out of he window before opening the hole to make sure no fire or flames.
(Of course waiting for instructions from CC to actually evacuate before doing so if the CC are capable of such).

[Helo]

It was a 777 out and inbound.

[Chris_Butler]

Helo - A very good question. Pity mixture hijacked the thread. I have had exactly the same reaction as you a number of times over the last 12 months or so. I also am interested in your question as to whether regulations have changed.

I even had it in the back of my mind that the regulations were implemented after a ground fire (Manchester?) where the issue (or one of the issues) was the emergency crew not being able to see inside the aircraft. That bit may be ageing memory-scramble but I was pretty sure that blinds had to be up to take-off and landing.

[jetset lady]

Helo and Chris_Butler,

To answer your question, no the regulations haven't changed recently. Window blinds must be open on all doors and emergency exits ie overwing exits. However there are no regulations covering normal windows. This is down to each individual airline to decide. Some ask that all blinds be open and some don't. BA don't for example but Britannia did and I assume that is still the case at Thomson. That's been the regulation for as long as I remember. I hope that helps.

[Helo]

Perfect answer! Thank you.

[Hotel Tango]

Thank you jetset lady. That clarifies the obvious confusion which existed among us pax.