Would you fly Air France?
PPRuNe Handmaiden
I have a mate in Air France and to say the culture in Air France is "interesting" is to be polite.. Now, prior to the last accident, some members of the pilot body appeared to be rather arrogant with respect to safety, compliance and standardisation.
However, they copped a huge reality check with the Atlantic crash. My mate (flight crew) has been pleasantly surprised with the changes that are going on. The airline deserves commendation for addressing the issues.
However, they copped a huge reality check with the Atlantic crash. My mate (flight crew) has been pleasantly surprised with the changes that are going on. The airline deserves commendation for addressing the issues.
They are controlled by a very tough regulating body - the French CAA which is supervised by the EASA so I think the Atlantic crash was a bit of act of God. They did not have anything serious since then.
So yes I would fly with them any time the fare is right and there was no alternate on the alliance I have top status.
So yes I would fly with them any time the fare is right and there was no alternate on the alliance I have top status.
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Well, compared to LHR - CDG is a paradise. But that isn't saying much. Now ORY, well that's worse.
AF is as safe as any other EU based airline. If it wasn't they wouldn't be flying. If this wasn't a pilots forum, I might note that recent incidents (A340 - YYZ, A330 mid atlantic) appeared to be more related to human factors. But seeing that it is
, I'll keep my mouth shut. 
They have had a few unusual incidents, including the above. I think their first A340 "premature hull retirement" was an aircraft catching fire while it was being towed empty to or from a hangar.
I have flown them many times, usually via CDG. I'd fly them again if the price was right but I've noted they almost always are more expensive than their partner KLM (connecting flights via their hubs)
AF is as safe as any other EU based airline. If it wasn't they wouldn't be flying. If this wasn't a pilots forum, I might note that recent incidents (A340 - YYZ, A330 mid atlantic) appeared to be more related to human factors. But seeing that it is
, I'll keep my mouth shut. They have had a few unusual incidents, including the above. I think their first A340 "premature hull retirement" was an aircraft catching fire while it was being towed empty to or from a hangar.
I have flown them many times, usually via CDG. I'd fly them again if the price was right but I've noted they almost always are more expensive than their partner KLM (connecting flights via their hubs)
After AF447, I wouldn't touch them with a bargepole for safety reasons (unless the only choice was Air India).
..and yes, I have had an ASI failure at night IMC - I set power & attitude, & sorted out the instruments/avionics in slow-time. I also worked as an instructor for an airline training school in the dim and distant past - where we still taught proper handling skills and sensible airmanship, but that's getting rarer these days.
I take a look at the airlines where good crew have saved the day by exhibiting good airmanship, and fly with them. BA, Qantas, Air Canada, etc.
I'd take a good look at where airlines get their maintenance done these days as well - Southwest is one to avoid for this reason in my book.
..and yes, I have had an ASI failure at night IMC - I set power & attitude, & sorted out the instruments/avionics in slow-time. I also worked as an instructor for an airline training school in the dim and distant past - where we still taught proper handling skills and sensible airmanship, but that's getting rarer these days.
I take a look at the airlines where good crew have saved the day by exhibiting good airmanship, and fly with them. BA, Qantas, Air Canada, etc.
I'd take a good look at where airlines get their maintenance done these days as well - Southwest is one to avoid for this reason in my book.
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I'd put them pretty low on my list of choices, there would have to be a really good reason to choose them. Certainly lower than all the other Western airlines I might encounter.
I wouldn't have a problem flying AF though the last flights with them I was unimpressed with the service and comfort. If there was another way I would probably prefer it!
This is the same LHR that came in 10th in the Skytrax 2014 Worlds Best Airports listings. While CDG was, ermmm, nowhere.......
Their track record says otherwise.....
Surely the "human factors" are indivisible from the airline?
Their track record says otherwise.....
Surely the "human factors" are indivisible from the airline?
so I think the Atlantic crash was a bit of act of God
Thread Starter
Well I hope I survive not to regret it....(I think that's what I mean!)
Booked flights for the family but KLM going out via Schipol and AF back via CDG with only 1hr 10min and 45min connections on the respective sectors. So no time to digest the 'delights' of either airport.
Interestingly, apart from one dodgy booking website, the KLM website was the cheapest. Whilst I could reserve seats for free outbound, I could not even pay to reserve seats for the return trip (not that I would want to pay).
Booked flights for the family but KLM going out via Schipol and AF back via CDG with only 1hr 10min and 45min connections on the respective sectors. So no time to digest the 'delights' of either airport.
Interestingly, apart from one dodgy booking website, the KLM website was the cheapest. Whilst I could reserve seats for free outbound, I could not even pay to reserve seats for the return trip (not that I would want to pay).
CH3CH2OH
Working for a company with a head office in Paris I travel AF/KLM quite frequently, now having enough FF status CDG is a breeze, priority security, boarding and passport control with Parafe automated border makes it easy.
I have no problems with the product, prefer the premium cabins and service to the very overpriced BA offering to be honest.
Safety wise, I have no specific concerns with the product, getting up is a risk but so then is staying in bed.
I have no problems with the product, prefer the premium cabins and service to the very overpriced BA offering to be honest.
Safety wise, I have no specific concerns with the product, getting up is a risk but so then is staying in bed.
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Air France
This may help you decide whether to fly with them
http://www.thelocal.fr/20140429/airp...ce-pilots:ugh:
http://www.thelocal.fr/20140429/airp...ce-pilots:ugh:
I would fly Air France if there wasn't an alternative airline. However I would rather use BA or Virgin or quite a few others.
Air France seems to have too many bits of bad luck for my liking, like the Concorde crash, the A340 in Canada and the A330 in the South Atlantic.
I still can't understand why the senior pilot was in bed a few hours after takeoff, or why the pilot flying pulled the stick back when the plane was stalling. But of course I'm not a pilot so how could I know.
Air France seems to have too many bits of bad luck for my liking, like the Concorde crash, the A340 in Canada and the A330 in the South Atlantic.
I still can't understand why the senior pilot was in bed a few hours after takeoff, or why the pilot flying pulled the stick back when the plane was stalling. But of course I'm not a pilot so how could I know.
Didn't understand or was trained to understand attitude, angle of attack, rate of descent; hadn't been given real pilot training (such as you are given in the mil - sorry) etc. etc.
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They are controlled by a very tough regulating body
Along would come Mr LeS.... arriving late morning off a train from Lille, once the niceties were out of the way it would be time for the directors to take him for lunch (have you ever seen how much red wine a French man can get thru during a lunchtime?), thereafter he would be so drunk we would simply fly thru our inspections before putting him back on a train to Lille
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Strange - I asked the question because of concerns over the ability of AF to get into scrapes that other airlines seem to avoid. Yet most people are more concerned over the facilities at CDG.
My experience of CDG when transferring with AF previously is pretty good - clean, smart, light, comfortable, with short security queues and does not feel like Heathrow or Manchester - a shopping centre with runway attached.
My experience of CDG when transferring with AF previously is pretty good - clean, smart, light, comfortable, with short security queues and does not feel like Heathrow or Manchester - a shopping centre with runway attached.
People are able to think rationally sometimes.
Seriously, twice zero is still zero.
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I have used AF CDG-ATL several times over the last 5 years.
Excellent cabin service (business) and departures fairly punctual. Ground staff poor at ATL (Delta). CDG usual nightmare
Relatively cheap and good for the carriage of animals transatlantic.
Excellent cabin service (business) and departures fairly punctual. Ground staff poor at ATL (Delta). CDG usual nightmare
Relatively cheap and good for the carriage of animals transatlantic.
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Some posters are getting confused. The question is in relation to their safety record not their service. On my side I think that they will have learnt their lessons and made some changes. I would be willing to fly with them.