BA Fare Structures
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BA Fare Structures
I know that this subject has been touched on before, but I would be interested if anyone can expalin the following.
I want to fly from my home here in Spain to Tampa, and as BA now fly from ALC to LGW I was hoping to book a seamless journey with them - albeit with an overnight stop in LGW on the out-bound journey.
However, if I book with them on the BA web-site, for a ALC-LGW-TPA and subsequent return flight, the fare is £822. However, if I book the trip in seperate sectors [ie ALC-LGW rtn and LGW-TPA rtn] the combined cost is only £588 - ie c£230 less. [I have not looked at how much EZY would charge for the ALC-LGW legs.]
I can appreciate that BA might want to build in a 'buffer' in case the TPA-LGW flight is late, thus meaning that they will have to compensate me for a missed connection, but this does seem to be a monumental discrepancy!
I want to fly from my home here in Spain to Tampa, and as BA now fly from ALC to LGW I was hoping to book a seamless journey with them - albeit with an overnight stop in LGW on the out-bound journey.
However, if I book with them on the BA web-site, for a ALC-LGW-TPA and subsequent return flight, the fare is £822. However, if I book the trip in seperate sectors [ie ALC-LGW rtn and LGW-TPA rtn] the combined cost is only £588 - ie c£230 less. [I have not looked at how much EZY would charge for the ALC-LGW legs.]
I can appreciate that BA might want to build in a 'buffer' in case the TPA-LGW flight is late, thus meaning that they will have to compensate me for a missed connection, but this does seem to be a monumental discrepancy!
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Welcome to the Alice in Wonderland world of airline revenue management. I think it was Willy Walsh who said : "If customers understand airfares, we've got it wrong."
From the airlines' perspective there are a number of reasons why the type of apparent anomaly that you have highlighted make sense. There is naturally a conflict of interest between the airlines' RM systems and the customers' requirement to obtain the lowest fare.
In this case, although the airline would discourage it, you can go ahead and book the two separate journeys, but you must appreciate that your ALC-LGW-ALC ticket and your LGW-TPA-LGW form two separate and unrelated contracts. The airline assumes no responsibility if you miss a connection in either direction, although on the outward that seems unlikely. You will also not be able to check your luggage through, nor benefit from a (possibly) greater baggage allowance on the through ticket.
For £230 I think most people would happily accept that. If anything goes wrong though, you are on your own.
From the airlines' perspective there are a number of reasons why the type of apparent anomaly that you have highlighted make sense. There is naturally a conflict of interest between the airlines' RM systems and the customers' requirement to obtain the lowest fare.
In this case, although the airline would discourage it, you can go ahead and book the two separate journeys, but you must appreciate that your ALC-LGW-ALC ticket and your LGW-TPA-LGW form two separate and unrelated contracts. The airline assumes no responsibility if you miss a connection in either direction, although on the outward that seems unlikely. You will also not be able to check your luggage through, nor benefit from a (possibly) greater baggage allowance on the through ticket.
For £230 I think most people would happily accept that. If anything goes wrong though, you are on your own.
If both legs are on the same large and reputable EU airline but issued on different tickets, the 1st leg was late and the passenger checked in on time and complied with the fare conditions, would the airline *really* take the line of "Tough sh*t - your problem", or would they perhaps find the passenger a seat on the next available flight ?
Paxing All Over The World
For the last dozen years, every major company has 'leveraged' (horrible word) computerised pricing.
Amongst the first were the mobile phone companies with a dizzing list of options all designed so that you could NOT compare like with like across their competitors. The energy companies enthusiastically followed suit.
As to the amusing case you quote: I think it's rare that the gap is as wide as this but one of the reasons might be - if one or other of the legs has some kind of a promotion on it to attract more traffic, that would show up more in a simple return, than in the full journey.
But speculation is useless. I doubt that anyone in BA's pricing team could tell you either - because it is the computer that is pricing this (within boundaries) and no human is involved. I agree with Tableview, book the cheapest and for the return, mebbe schedule a night stop with friends too? Otherwise, allow extra time if the long haul is delayed. For me, the tipping point is about £100 saving.
Amongst the first were the mobile phone companies with a dizzing list of options all designed so that you could NOT compare like with like across their competitors. The energy companies enthusiastically followed suit.
As to the amusing case you quote: I think it's rare that the gap is as wide as this but one of the reasons might be - if one or other of the legs has some kind of a promotion on it to attract more traffic, that would show up more in a simple return, than in the full journey.
But speculation is useless. I doubt that anyone in BA's pricing team could tell you either - because it is the computer that is pricing this (within boundaries) and no human is involved. I agree with Tableview, book the cheapest and for the return, mebbe schedule a night stop with friends too? Otherwise, allow extra time if the long haul is delayed. For me, the tipping point is about £100 saving.
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What about this one!?
BA. LHR to Grand Cayman single approx £1750
Return approx £820. What is that about?
I realise not many people book single fare but that seems crazy.
BA. LHR to Grand Cayman single approx £1750
Return approx £820. What is that about?
I realise not many people book single fare but that seems crazy.
Sark - are the conditions as to the changeability and refundability of the 2 tickets you have in mind the same ? Are they both issued by the same airline, or is one done as a codeshare and issued by another airline and thus possibly governed by a different country's laws ? Are they for exactly the same outbound flight ? Are they for the exact same quality of seat ? Does one accrue more frequent flyer miles ? Do they have the same luggage allowance ?
And finally... does one of the tickets have "go faster" stripes ?
And finally... does one of the tickets have "go faster" stripes ?
Last edited by davidjohnson6; 3rd Feb 2013 at 22:48.
For many years I've been preaching "don't do separate tickets" because if the inbound is late and you miss your "connection" you are on your own.
But then somebody here pointed me at the BA page about baggage British Airways - Checked baggage where it says
Checking in baggage for connecting flights
Baggage will normally be checked to your final destination, provided your journey is on the same ticket. However, if you hold separate tickets for the flights in your journey, British Airways will only through check your baggage to your final destination if the connecting flights are operated by British Airways or by another oneworld airline.
So last week I did it. Checked in online for my LHR GRU flight, turned up at T5, went to bag drop, explained I had a separate ticket for on carriage GRU SCL and the agent didn't bat an eyelid. Tagged the baggage to SCL via GRU *and* issued our GRU SCL boarding passes for the LAN flight.
What would have happened if things had gone wrong? They didn't so I don't know but with through check in like that I can't help feeling BA would be on a sticky wicket trying to wriggle out of their responsibiities.
But then somebody here pointed me at the BA page about baggage British Airways - Checked baggage where it says
Checking in baggage for connecting flights
Baggage will normally be checked to your final destination, provided your journey is on the same ticket. However, if you hold separate tickets for the flights in your journey, British Airways will only through check your baggage to your final destination if the connecting flights are operated by British Airways or by another oneworld airline.
So last week I did it. Checked in online for my LHR GRU flight, turned up at T5, went to bag drop, explained I had a separate ticket for on carriage GRU SCL and the agent didn't bat an eyelid. Tagged the baggage to SCL via GRU *and* issued our GRU SCL boarding passes for the LAN flight.
What would have happened if things had gone wrong? They didn't so I don't know but with through check in like that I can't help feeling BA would be on a sticky wicket trying to wriggle out of their responsibiities.
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BA. LHR to Grand Cayman single approx £1750
Return approx £820. What is that about?
Return approx £820. What is that about?
That said, yes, it's bonkers, and it is exactly that type of fare structure that the LCCs stripped away and to some extent forced the legacy carriers to drop.
On several occasions over the last ten years, I've checked bags in with American that connected to a BA flight on a different ticket and then onwards from LHR to Stockholm ona third ticket. No problems - except for having to insist that the bags were tagged for ARN - checkin staff at Dayton hadn't a clue which Stockholm airport I was going to, or that there was more than one!
I'm expecting to use Alaska Airlines in May to go to Seattle and then onwards on BA to LHR, and expect to check a bag right through.
I'm expecting to use Alaska Airlines in May to go to Seattle and then onwards on BA to LHR, and expect to check a bag right through.
Thread Starter
Thanks for the replies.
The in-bound TPA-LGW only allows 2 hours to connect to the LGW-ALC flight, which I don't think is sufficient, given that I will need to clear immigration, collect my luggage, check-in again, pass through security etc.
It certainly won't make for a stress free flight, worrying about making the connection.
My option will be to book 6 hours at the Yotel, have a nap and a shower, and then catch the afternoon EZY flight.
The in-bound TPA-LGW only allows 2 hours to connect to the LGW-ALC flight, which I don't think is sufficient, given that I will need to clear immigration, collect my luggage, check-in again, pass through security etc.
It certainly won't make for a stress free flight, worrying about making the connection.
My option will be to book 6 hours at the Yotel, have a nap and a shower, and then catch the afternoon EZY flight.
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I am staying at the Yotel LGW next Thursday night, as I am arriving at midnight and leaving at 0700, it seemed for £39, an ideal solution. Reports on it are good, I shall post my own.
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Harrington,
The problems that came about from two tickets was because there was no understanding between the two or more airlines on what happened when something went wrong. While most airlines simply applied the IATA rules others did not, perhaps only when it was in their interest to do so.
I think it was BMI who started refusing through check with two tickets because they had been 'stung' by a few interline partners. (The IATA rules say the receiving airline settles with the passenger and then bills the delivering airline for a share of the cost. They were paying the full claim and had their bills refused because there was no contract)
It would seem that one world airlines do have an understanding for multiple ticket interlining, so you should be OK if something goes wrong.
Tableview - another reason is the network airlines use the 'full Y' fare for other things than just the very rare one-way traveller. Excess baggage charges, ship's crews discounts, etc etc. They still use them, in some cases, when calculating shares from an interline ticket. Where they have been forced to have low OW fares to remain competitive, they will introduce these in addition to their 'full Y' rather than reduce this fare.
Radeng - As Alaska is not a one world carrier I would be careful using separate tickets. Check first. BA phone sales (or a travel agent) should be able to issue any possible combination of fares on a single ticket, and while that may add a booking fee you are always better off with a single ticket.
The problems that came about from two tickets was because there was no understanding between the two or more airlines on what happened when something went wrong. While most airlines simply applied the IATA rules others did not, perhaps only when it was in their interest to do so.
I think it was BMI who started refusing through check with two tickets because they had been 'stung' by a few interline partners. (The IATA rules say the receiving airline settles with the passenger and then bills the delivering airline for a share of the cost. They were paying the full claim and had their bills refused because there was no contract)
It would seem that one world airlines do have an understanding for multiple ticket interlining, so you should be OK if something goes wrong.
Tableview - another reason is the network airlines use the 'full Y' fare for other things than just the very rare one-way traveller. Excess baggage charges, ship's crews discounts, etc etc. They still use them, in some cases, when calculating shares from an interline ticket. Where they have been forced to have low OW fares to remain competitive, they will introduce these in addition to their 'full Y' rather than reduce this fare.
Radeng - As Alaska is not a one world carrier I would be careful using separate tickets. Check first. BA phone sales (or a travel agent) should be able to issue any possible combination of fares on a single ticket, and while that may add a booking fee you are always better off with a single ticket.
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Found this on AS website, quite interesting.
Reversal of Baggage Rule Changes - Separate Ticket Itinerary
** UPDATE January 17, 2013 **
Alaska Airlines has reversed a recent policy change that would have restricted the ability to check to a final destination when separate tickets are presented at check-in for international travel.
While we recommend traveling on one ticket, we recognize this isn't always possible, and Alaska Airlines will continue to check baggage to our customers’ final destinations when separate tickets are presented.
When travelling internationally across multiple tickets, the international carrier's rules and fees will apply. When traveling within the U.S., the baggage rules and fees of the ticket being used at the location of bag-check will apply.
** UPDATE January 17, 2013 **
Alaska Airlines has reversed a recent policy change that would have restricted the ability to check to a final destination when separate tickets are presented at check-in for international travel.
While we recommend traveling on one ticket, we recognize this isn't always possible, and Alaska Airlines will continue to check baggage to our customers’ final destinations when separate tickets are presented.
When travelling internationally across multiple tickets, the international carrier's rules and fees will apply. When traveling within the U.S., the baggage rules and fees of the ticket being used at the location of bag-check will apply.
Several times I have flown BA on unconnected two flights and never had a problem checking bags through to the second flight. For example I flew FCO to LHR (bought as part of a package holiday) and then on to MAN (bought privately) and got checked in for both (and luggage accepted).
I've been retired for about 5 years now but I can remember, some time before that, BA issuing an edict "no through check on ANY mutiple tickets". Period. The little baggage paragraph only opens a small and specific chnink in that statement.
I still don't know what would happen if an inbound delay caused a misconnect. We were nearly an hour late out of T5 but had a fast crossing arriving nearly on time. That and a retime of the LAN flight to about 40 minutes later meant we were OK but I did wonder.
I still don't know what would happen if an inbound delay caused a misconnect. We were nearly an hour late out of T5 but had a fast crossing arriving nearly on time. That and a retime of the LAN flight to about 40 minutes later meant we were OK but I did wonder.
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"For the last dozen years, every major company has 'leveraged' (horrible word) computerised pricing.
Amongst the first were the mobile phone companies with a dizzing list of options all designed"
Not so - it was the airlines who developed computerised revenue control back in the early '80's - seem to remember the Sabre System (?American A/L??)
Unfortunately it was then adopted by every other industry
Amongst the first were the mobile phone companies with a dizzing list of options all designed"
Not so - it was the airlines who developed computerised revenue control back in the early '80's - seem to remember the Sabre System (?American A/L??)
Unfortunately it was then adopted by every other industry
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it was the airlines who developed computerised revenue control back in the early '80's - seem to remember the Sabre System (?American A/L??)
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Revenue management happened a little while later - In the early '80s, when AA introduced their super saver fares.
At the time they were faced with increasing competition from the likes of PeoplExpress whose operating costs were half of AA's. However since AA was averaging only 60% load factors some bright cookie realised that they had almost no operating costs for 40% of their seats.
As long as they could find some way of preventing the already travelling passengers to buy down they could undercut their low cost competitors and make money. And they did, for a while.
At the time they were faced with increasing competition from the likes of PeoplExpress whose operating costs were half of AA's. However since AA was averaging only 60% load factors some bright cookie realised that they had almost no operating costs for 40% of their seats.
As long as they could find some way of preventing the already travelling passengers to buy down they could undercut their low cost competitors and make money. And they did, for a while.
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Thanks for the info on Sabre guys
I must say I've seen some really weird fares across the Atlantic in the last couple of years - it really pays to check out alternatives - last year I had an open jaw business fare that was half the cost of flying on the same airline return to either destination
I must say I've seen some really weird fares across the Atlantic in the last couple of years - it really pays to check out alternatives - last year I had an open jaw business fare that was half the cost of flying on the same airline return to either destination
