Names on electronic tickets
Thread Starter
Names on electronic tickets
Checking in recently at BHD on the worlds favourite the check in girl pointed out that I would need to be careful with how my name appeared on the booking reference as some airlines are now charging a fee as in my case the name on the ticket reference was my middle name and not my first name as appears on my passport.
This I could understand where in some cultures the first name is perhaps the family name but as I am Irish/British I fail to see how they could justify an additional fee just because your first name as in your passport does not appear on the ticket reference.
I have always been known by my middle name and this is the one that I use for everything
other than official documents that specify your full name is required.
The girl obviously did not specify an airline but I suspect we all know who she was refering to.
Be interesting to see how it would stand up if one was to be asked for an additional fee on these grounds.
This I could understand where in some cultures the first name is perhaps the family name but as I am Irish/British I fail to see how they could justify an additional fee just because your first name as in your passport does not appear on the ticket reference.
I have always been known by my middle name and this is the one that I use for everything
other than official documents that specify your full name is required.
The girl obviously did not specify an airline but I suspect we all know who she was refering to.
Be interesting to see how it would stand up if one was to be asked for an additional fee on these grounds.
Last edited by Solar; 26th Nov 2012 at 20:57. Reason: Spelling
PPRuNe Handmaiden
Yeah, Phil, that works when the people booking your ticket is familiar with how the West do names.
However, not every person around the world is familiar with the Western naming structure.
However, not every person around the world is familiar with the Western naming structure.
Thread Starter
The tickets are not booked by myself but by the company travel agent and they have been doing it for 30+ years.
Now it's a problem to some or another way to increase their revenue.
Point is if the P/P is there for ID and they (the airline) accept it when you pay the "fee" then they leave them selves open to accusations of bribery.
It's either acceptable or not.
Now it's a problem to some or another way to increase their revenue.
Point is if the P/P is there for ID and they (the airline) accept it when you pay the "fee" then they leave them selves open to accusations of bribery.
It's either acceptable or not.
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It's pretty much industry standard that the name in the PNR/ticket should match that on the passport. What you are normally known as is irrelevant.
So Horatius William Smith will not be accepted for travel as Billy Smith, but Horatius Smith might be ok.
Problems arise with names such as Jose Luis Miguel Antonio Camacho de Goncalves, whose name will have to be truncated as many systems are character limited. Some of the GDSs will accept up to 64 characters but ticketing systems and DCSs typically less. The system will truncate by lopping off the extra characters on the end, a human operator may make a more pragmatic decision and enter the above as Camacho de G/Jose Luis M A Mr
To some degree the problem is alleviated as many international destinations require APIS information to be sent through and the SSR DOCP element which is transmitted to the airline should be sent exactly as per the passport.
Oriental and Arabic names are a problem too. Let's not even go there!
So Horatius William Smith will not be accepted for travel as Billy Smith, but Horatius Smith might be ok.
Problems arise with names such as Jose Luis Miguel Antonio Camacho de Goncalves, whose name will have to be truncated as many systems are character limited. Some of the GDSs will accept up to 64 characters but ticketing systems and DCSs typically less. The system will truncate by lopping off the extra characters on the end, a human operator may make a more pragmatic decision and enter the above as Camacho de G/Jose Luis M A Mr
To some degree the problem is alleviated as many international destinations require APIS information to be sent through and the SSR DOCP element which is transmitted to the airline should be sent exactly as per the passport.
Oriental and Arabic names are a problem too. Let's not even go there!
Thread Starter
Tableview
The name on the the ticket is correct but using my middle normally used name on the passport as opposed to the passort first name which as I said I seldom use.
The point the check in girl made was that it had to be the first name on the passport or it would not be accepted.
This begs the question why is the first name ok and not the middle name and if I were to be asked a fee then it shouldn't matter what name is used, She also mentioned as an example Sean can not be used on the ticket if the passport has John. That I can understand though as you probably know Sean is the Irish version of John so that could raise another debate in some cases.
But we are still back to the question how can they charge a fee and accept something that they say is incorrect in regards to your ID.
The name on the the ticket is correct but using my middle normally used name on the passport as opposed to the passort first name which as I said I seldom use.
The point the check in girl made was that it had to be the first name on the passport or it would not be accepted.
This begs the question why is the first name ok and not the middle name and if I were to be asked a fee then it shouldn't matter what name is used, She also mentioned as an example Sean can not be used on the ticket if the passport has John. That I can understand though as you probably know Sean is the Irish version of John so that could raise another debate in some cases.
But we are still back to the question how can they charge a fee and accept something that they say is incorrect in regards to your ID.
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Use your Passport name
I am known as Seamus all my life.
But, when booking airline tickets I use my Passport name - James.
No problem - ever.
Use your Passport name and relax!
Have a nice day.
But, when booking airline tickets I use my Passport name - James.
No problem - ever.
Use your Passport name and relax!
Have a nice day.
I'm another person known by my middle name. It's not just flights/tickets. Almost every organisation I know assume without asking that using my first name is correct. One of the few who asked was my dentist whose records now have my full name but they know I am known by my second name.
The one I find most irritating is banks. I have to keep reminding people to make out cheques to my first name or initial and at least a couple of times a year someone forgets and my bank won't process it. They used to; there was a way of recording alternative names that cheques could be made payable to. They claim it's all to do with money laundering.
In the end, I've learned to live with it. Any form of travel booking (trains, planes, hotels, cars, ferries etc etc) now go in the form first name/last name. If someone on the phone tries to use my first name I just tell them I don't use that name and after some embarresment and confusion on their part we end up with Mr Hartington.
The one I find most irritating is banks. I have to keep reminding people to make out cheques to my first name or initial and at least a couple of times a year someone forgets and my bank won't process it. They used to; there was a way of recording alternative names that cheques could be made payable to. They claim it's all to do with money laundering.
In the end, I've learned to live with it. Any form of travel booking (trains, planes, hotels, cars, ferries etc etc) now go in the form first name/last name. If someone on the phone tries to use my first name I just tell them I don't use that name and after some embarresment and confusion on their part we end up with Mr Hartington.
I have had two members of staff who used their middle name as their regular name. Tickets always booked using their first name to coincide with the passport.
We always knew if there was a cold call for them, as the person always asked for them by their first name, not their regular name, indicating information gleaned from official documents rather than information provided directly.
We always knew if there was a cold call for them, as the person always asked for them by their first name, not their regular name, indicating information gleaned from official documents rather than information provided directly.
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Surely it is up to yourself to inform the booking department of your company that your real first name is the one they should be using.
You state you only use it on official documents, does an Airline ticket not count as an official document anymore?
My great Uncle was known by his middle name all his life but wouldn't put that as his first name on the ticket on one of his monthly trips to either the USA or Spain. The name simply wouldn't have matched his passport, which is what the airline specifically ask for. There are plenty of reasons why they want your first name on the ticket, so you should, rightly, be charged to change it if the airline demand that you do.
As with most fees or charges, it is there to act as a penalty for when you don't do something the airline specifically asked you to do. You can try and accuse an airline of bribery, but at the end of the day you just simply have to put your first name as your first name and nothing else!
You state you only use it on official documents, does an Airline ticket not count as an official document anymore?
My great Uncle was known by his middle name all his life but wouldn't put that as his first name on the ticket on one of his monthly trips to either the USA or Spain. The name simply wouldn't have matched his passport, which is what the airline specifically ask for. There are plenty of reasons why they want your first name on the ticket, so you should, rightly, be charged to change it if the airline demand that you do.
As with most fees or charges, it is there to act as a penalty for when you don't do something the airline specifically asked you to do. You can try and accuse an airline of bribery, but at the end of the day you just simply have to put your first name as your first name and nothing else!
If the booking form asks for first name and surname, then it means first name and surname. Not middle name and surname. Not preferred name and surname. Not nickname and surname.
Jeez, how hard can it be?
I am known to one and all by a diminutive of my first name. Even my parents have never called me the full version of the name. However my passport, driving licence etc. all have my full name on them. My signature consists of my first name in full, both middle initials and my surname. That is my name, end of story.
Either change your name by deed poll and change all your official documentation or just accept that your middle name is just that, a middle name. It's not your first name no matter how much you prefer it.
Jeez, how hard can it be?
I am known to one and all by a diminutive of my first name. Even my parents have never called me the full version of the name. However my passport, driving licence etc. all have my full name on them. My signature consists of my first name in full, both middle initials and my surname. That is my name, end of story.
Either change your name by deed poll and change all your official documentation or just accept that your middle name is just that, a middle name. It's not your first name no matter how much you prefer it.
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It's pretty much industry standard that the name in the PNR/ticket should match that on the passport. What you are normally known as is irrelevant.
My great Uncle was known by his middle name all his life but wouldn't put that as his first name on the ticket on one of his monthly trips to either the USA or Spain. The name simply wouldn't have matched his passport, which is what the airline specifically ask for. There are plenty of reasons why they want your first name on the ticket, so you should, rightly, be charged to change it if the airline demand that you do.
This begs the question why is the first name ok and not the middle name
An airline might be within its rights to demand an exact match to the passport name, in which case the ticket would have to be in the name of "John David Smith". But if they allow "John Smith", they have no basis to disallow "David Smith".
I really do not see what is so hard about this.
If a booking form asks for your first name they mean the first name as listed on your passport. In the case given above the legal name is John David Smith. The first name is John, not David. That is the second name.
On what basis could the airline insist that you change the booking? I imagine on the basis that you did not fill in the booking form correctly.
If a booking form asks for your first name they mean the first name as listed on your passport. In the case given above the legal name is John David Smith. The first name is John, not David. That is the second name.
On what basis could the airline insist that you change the booking? I imagine on the basis that you did not fill in the booking form correctly.
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I don't see what's hard about it either. The name either matches the passport or it doesn't. In this case, David Smith matches just as well as John Smith. Why should the airline care which is used? There is no greater assurance of correct identity by insisting on one or the other.
Maybe the booking form asked for first name, maybe it asked for given name. I'm pretty sure if you booked in French, it asked for "prenom", and in German, for "vorname". "David" in this case would be a perfectly correct response to both. Even in English, maybe the customer interprets "first" as "the part of my name that I write first, before my surname", or maybe as "the first of my given names". Again, why does it matter? What's so hard about it for the airline?
Maybe the booking form asked for first name, maybe it asked for given name. I'm pretty sure if you booked in French, it asked for "prenom", and in German, for "vorname". "David" in this case would be a perfectly correct response to both. Even in English, maybe the customer interprets "first" as "the part of my name that I write first, before my surname", or maybe as "the first of my given names". Again, why does it matter? What's so hard about it for the airline?
Last edited by Gibon2; 29th Nov 2012 at 14:54. Reason: Clarity
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A well-known New Zealand entertainer must be running the airline folk ragged. His real name is Allen Stevenson, which is what is on his passport, which also contains the line: "also known as STEVE ALLEN". I wonder which one he books his flights under, as in NZ is is known as Steve Allen. (It goes back a bit, but he sang the theme song for the 1974 Commonwealth Games, "Join Together").
He's just one character I know whose 'known name' differs substantially from his 'legal' name. Another is so well known by a certain name that if he used his legal name, there's a strong possibility that Customs would pull him aside fearing a fake passport.
I guess we have to follow the rules set by the owners/operators of the service, but they sometimes don't make it easy on themselves. I have seen instances where the request is "Surname?", "First nameS?". As already posted above, OK if you're dealing with your own native naming system, but real messy if you're not.
"If in doubt, ask" maybe?
Le Vieux
He's just one character I know whose 'known name' differs substantially from his 'legal' name. Another is so well known by a certain name that if he used his legal name, there's a strong possibility that Customs would pull him aside fearing a fake passport.
I guess we have to follow the rules set by the owners/operators of the service, but they sometimes don't make it easy on themselves. I have seen instances where the request is "Surname?", "First nameS?". As already posted above, OK if you're dealing with your own native naming system, but real messy if you're not.
"If in doubt, ask" maybe?
Le Vieux
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If governments ever begin to use APIS information, other than to check your name as given against their "black hat" name data base, I can see even less flexibility in matching the name to the passport.
It is insane to stand in queues to give immigration the same information you gave them (or could give them) on-line. Approval to enter should be given based on APIS and all they should be checking is that it is your passport you are holding. If they don't want you, you shouldn't be allowed on the plane.
It is insane to stand in queues to give immigration the same information you gave them (or could give them) on-line. Approval to enter should be given based on APIS and all they should be checking is that it is your passport you are holding. If they don't want you, you shouldn't be allowed on the plane.
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In case anyone is wondering what the APIS information is and how it gets transmitted to the airline :
SSR DOCS BA HK1 P/GBR/1234567890/GBR/01JAN76/M/01JAN20/SMITH/PETER JOHN
SSR = code for a service request
DOCS = primary travel document info, one of the APIS types (also DOCO DOCA DOCV DOCP)
P = document type
GBR = issuing country code
GBR = passport
1234567890 = document number
GBR = passenger nationality
01JAN76 = date of birth
M = sex
01JAN20 = document expiry
full names as per document
Some airlines will refuse transportation, and are entitled to do so, unless there is a full match across :
PNR
ETKT
Travel document
APIS field
SSR DOCS BA HK1 P/GBR/1234567890/GBR/01JAN76/M/01JAN20/SMITH/PETER JOHN
SSR = code for a service request
DOCS = primary travel document info, one of the APIS types (also DOCO DOCA DOCV DOCP)
P = document type
GBR = issuing country code
GBR = passport
1234567890 = document number
GBR = passenger nationality
01JAN76 = date of birth
M = sex
01JAN20 = document expiry
full names as per document
Some airlines will refuse transportation, and are entitled to do so, unless there is a full match across :
PNR
ETKT
Travel document
APIS field
Just consider this nonsense. A woman has a Russian passport. Then gets married to a UK citizen and (eventually) gets a UK passport with UK married name. Then, books on BA from UK to Russia. But in what name ?
If uses UK name then gets stopped at Heathrow because no visa in UK passport to enter Russia. Visas are not issued to anyone already a citizen of the country. Shows Russian passport as well but told this is in different name.
If uses Russian (maiden) name then fine to travel outward on Russian passport. But when returning from Russia, gets stopped at airport because no visa in Russian passport to enter Britain. Shows UK passport but told this is in different name.
No facility on a return ticket to use different names in each direction. The ideal solution would be for reservations to have an "alternate name" facility. But IATA/ICAO have never thought of this.
I do hope somebody can tell me the official answer to this combination, because I have asked BA several times and never had any sensible answer to it.
If uses UK name then gets stopped at Heathrow because no visa in UK passport to enter Russia. Visas are not issued to anyone already a citizen of the country. Shows Russian passport as well but told this is in different name.
If uses Russian (maiden) name then fine to travel outward on Russian passport. But when returning from Russia, gets stopped at airport because no visa in Russian passport to enter Britain. Shows UK passport but told this is in different name.
No facility on a return ticket to use different names in each direction. The ideal solution would be for reservations to have an "alternate name" facility. But IATA/ICAO have never thought of this.
I do hope somebody can tell me the official answer to this combination, because I have asked BA several times and never had any sensible answer to it.