Seriously obese passenger query.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Dublin
Posts: 987
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Obesity occurs when the calorific intake exceeds the energy used. Lord Toad, other factors that may contribute include genetic or psychological factors.
Jarvey would have a BMI of 30.3 so overweight. Another 5 pounds and he'd go into the obese category and if he looked for a new life assurance policy in this part of the world he'd have to pay +50% more for it. Not sure what it would do for a pilots medical certificate?
Given more than a billion adults globally are either overweight or obese, it seems a consequence of modern life that such persons cost more to transport and and should be charged say on a per kilo basis where their BMI is over 31.
On check in a body mass index calculator could be used to calculate a passengers BMI and an appropriate excess weight charge, extra seat charge or refusal to carry could be levied there and then.
Jarvey would have a BMI of 30.3 so overweight. Another 5 pounds and he'd go into the obese category and if he looked for a new life assurance policy in this part of the world he'd have to pay +50% more for it. Not sure what it would do for a pilots medical certificate?
Given more than a billion adults globally are either overweight or obese, it seems a consequence of modern life that such persons cost more to transport and and should be charged say on a per kilo basis where their BMI is over 31.
On check in a body mass index calculator could be used to calculate a passengers BMI and an appropriate excess weight charge, extra seat charge or refusal to carry could be levied there and then.
Last edited by Sober Lark; 25th Nov 2012 at 15:30.
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: West Wales and Zug, Switzerland
Age: 63
Posts: 416
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sober lark, I am from your part of the world (I'm English) and have a class 2 FAA medical and have held a class 1 CAA medical (not at present due to problem unrelated to my size) when my weight was up to 250lbs!
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: N. Spain
Age: 79
Posts: 1,311
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
To use BMI as criteria is absolute tosh. I have a BMI of 28 and therefore overweight. I could easily move up to obese (lardass if you prefer) and still not be encroaching into any adjoining seat.
This is because, apart from being a lardass, I am also a shortass at 1.57m who could never become wide enough to be in contact with both armrests let alone encroach into adjoining space. But because I am overweight at 69Kgs the fanatics posting here propose that I should pay extra whilst being well below the weight of most of said posters.
Perhaps I should be entitled to a discount as I don't use all the available legroom.
This is because, apart from being a lardass, I am also a shortass at 1.57m who could never become wide enough to be in contact with both armrests let alone encroach into adjoining space. But because I am overweight at 69Kgs the fanatics posting here propose that I should pay extra whilst being well below the weight of most of said posters.
Perhaps I should be entitled to a discount as I don't use all the available legroom.
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Europe
Posts: 1,416
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BMI is not a perfect measure, as we know, some very fit people have high BMI scores. But it's a start, and such people can always demonstrate their fitness to self-evacuate.
Refinement of the proposal has led to the probability that passengers will, within a couple of years, be required to board through a mock-up emergency exit at all EU airport gates. This will achieve the dual purpose of training them in using an exit, and checking that they are able to do so.
The regulation is going through the EASA Rulemaking process and will be allocated a task number within a week or two, now that the Rulemaking Director has formally agreed that it should proceed. A Working Group will be formed before the end of the year.
Last edited by Capot; 25th Nov 2012 at 16:26.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Dublin
Posts: 987
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BMI provides a significantly more accurate representation of body fat content than simply measuring a persons weight.
At 250 pounds that would have given such a person a BMI of 33 which would increase a life assurance premium by 50% here assuming there are no other risk factors. Risk factors such as family members (mother, father, brother, sister) suffering from early heart disease or diabetes before age 60, raised blood pressure, raised cholesterol, cigarette smoking.
A life assurance company would charge a person 50% more in premiums for just having a BMI of 33 with no other risk factors yet the FAA would give a first class medical, what type of a safety hazard is that?
Back to PAX, one could say at present it looks like healthy weight persons subsidise the airfare of overwight passengers.
At 250 pounds that would have given such a person a BMI of 33 which would increase a life assurance premium by 50% here assuming there are no other risk factors. Risk factors such as family members (mother, father, brother, sister) suffering from early heart disease or diabetes before age 60, raised blood pressure, raised cholesterol, cigarette smoking.
A life assurance company would charge a person 50% more in premiums for just having a BMI of 33 with no other risk factors yet the FAA would give a first class medical, what type of a safety hazard is that?
Back to PAX, one could say at present it looks like healthy weight persons subsidise the airfare of overwight passengers.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
It depends just where you bulge.
I spent an very uncomfortable 4 hours next to this chap who clearly was not wearing Y-fronts. He sat with his knees apart encroaching on my space. I have long thighs and it was B uncomfortable.
Then had an 8 hour next to this young, slim chap for whom toilet paper was unknown. Every time he moved . . . We had both blowers at full strength in his direction.
I spent an very uncomfortable 4 hours next to this chap who clearly was not wearing Y-fronts. He sat with his knees apart encroaching on my space. I have long thighs and it was B uncomfortable.
Then had an 8 hour next to this young, slim chap for whom toilet paper was unknown. Every time he moved . . . We had both blowers at full strength in his direction.
BMI provides a significantly more accurate representation of body fat content than simply measuring a persons weight.
From an individual perspective a better test is whether your waist is greater than half your height ... if it is then you are probably carrying too much fat. It still isn't a great test but is better than BMI as it is more tuned to individuals rather than populations.
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: West Wales and Zug, Switzerland
Age: 63
Posts: 416
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This is all getting a bit silly now. So sober lark if I as an overweight passenger should pay more for my seat should my wife who is small get a discount?
I do agree that if passengers need 2 seats they should have to pay for the second but its up to the airlines not us!
I do agree that if passengers need 2 seats they should have to pay for the second but its up to the airlines not us!
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Jarvy, what is your view of a passenger that fits in one seat but whose sheer bulk impinges on the adjacent passenger(s). For instance large biceps and large pecs so they effectively shoulder their neighbour?
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Dublin
Posts: 987
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
James 1077, your insurer uses mortality tables to price the rate you pay. If you were not overweight the chances are they wouldn't have requested you to attend for a medical. The insurer uses the medical to identify other possible risk factors which combined with your BMI could have made you uninsurable.
Standard passenger weights for a max seating capacity of aircraft (inc crew) of 300-499 adult male is 81.4kg, adult female 66.3kg, infant 0-3 years a, child 4 to 12 at 41kg an adolescent male 13-16 yrs at 60.50 and female at 54.7kg. For those of us who like the idea of more reasonable airfares having some sort of airline fat tax isn't an unreasonable suggestion.
Look at Wizzair. They wanted to reduce airfares so they are going to try to introduce a fee for cabin baggage. Don't Spirit and Allegiant Air charge over there?
Isn't weight an important part of airline economics?
Standard passenger weights for a max seating capacity of aircraft (inc crew) of 300-499 adult male is 81.4kg, adult female 66.3kg, infant 0-3 years a, child 4 to 12 at 41kg an adolescent male 13-16 yrs at 60.50 and female at 54.7kg. For those of us who like the idea of more reasonable airfares having some sort of airline fat tax isn't an unreasonable suggestion.
Look at Wizzair. They wanted to reduce airfares so they are going to try to introduce a fee for cabin baggage. Don't Spirit and Allegiant Air charge over there?
Isn't weight an important part of airline economics?
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: West Wales and Zug, Switzerland
Age: 63
Posts: 416
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Oh the joys of air travel. So let me get this straight, we want to charge more for fat people, big people, smelly people and people who dare to carry any sort of luggage. Have I missed any?
Those who want cheaper air travel must accept that the space will get smaller and that with the increase in passengers there will be a greater cross section of society.
If you really can't bear to sit next to others then pay more for better seats or even charter your own aircraft. It is after all public transport and therefore available to everyone! Not just some special people!!!
Those who want cheaper air travel must accept that the space will get smaller and that with the increase in passengers there will be a greater cross section of society.
If you really can't bear to sit next to others then pay more for better seats or even charter your own aircraft. It is after all public transport and therefore available to everyone! Not just some special people!!!
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Europe
Posts: 1,416
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
charge more for fat people, big people, smelly people and people who dare to carry any sort of luggage.
Mind you, fat and smelly are frequently found together. Some might say that big and fat are the same, but that's not the case; there are some very big people who are not fat at all. But they still need a bigger seat than the ones on offer at the back.
Last edited by Capot; 26th Nov 2012 at 16:31.
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Balmullo,Scotland
Posts: 933
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Surprised that know one has mentioned this but I wonder what the slides are tested in respect to extremly overweight pax, I am an engineer but have no idea at to what weight the slide is certified to, anyone have an idea?
FAA TSO
Southwest's (WN) rule seems pretty common-sense: if a passenger cannot fit in a seat with the armrests lowered, they are obligated to buy two seats.
I looked up the FAA TSO (no chuckles, now) covering evacuation slides (TSO-C69c) and it requires a slide to be tested for three persons of 170lb minimum weight closely bunched, simultaneously descending each lane of the device - so a single individual should not be a challenge as long as they are under 510lb or so. Here is a link to the FAA TSO if you want to have a read:
Current Technical Standard Order
I looked up the FAA TSO (no chuckles, now) covering evacuation slides (TSO-C69c) and it requires a slide to be tested for three persons of 170lb minimum weight closely bunched, simultaneously descending each lane of the device - so a single individual should not be a challenge as long as they are under 510lb or so. Here is a link to the FAA TSO if you want to have a read:
Current Technical Standard Order
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Dublin
Posts: 987
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Airlines are facing a possible multi-million dollar lawsuit after a clinically obese woman died while on holiday in Hungary after she was refused a seat on three flights back to New York where she needed medical treatment.
Vilma Soltez, who weighed over 30 stone (420 pounds) and had only one leg and used a wheelchair, died from health complications nine days after she was kicked off the first of the three flights.
She was unable to board due to issues with seat extensions and wheelchairs and other equipment that would not hold her weight.
She had travelled to her summer home in Hungary with Delta and KLM Airlines but had reportedly put on weight during her trip.
According to reports, the couple's travel agent had told Delta/KLM before the trip that she needed to return home on October 15 to continue with medical treatment for kidney problems and diabetes.
But her husband Janos claimed the couple were told they could not fly on their original Delta/KLM flight from Hungary because the aircraft did not have the necessary seat extension.
He said they were directed to drive to Prague for a Delta/KLM flight home. At Prague, Soltez could not be transferred to the flight because equipment could not be found that would hold her weight.
Their New York travel agent then found them another flight with Lufthansa, via Frankfurt, but this was not viable for the same reasons despite three seats being available for the passenger.
According to the Daily Mail, a local fire crew were bought in to help move her into the seats but they could not lift her out of her wheelchair.
Delat, KLM and Lufthansa have issued statements explaining their reasons for being unable to accommodate her.
Lawyers are now considering legal action against the airlines for violating laws protecting the disabled.
and Delta, KLM sued for death of obese woman denied flight - CBS News
Vilma Soltez, who weighed over 30 stone (420 pounds) and had only one leg and used a wheelchair, died from health complications nine days after she was kicked off the first of the three flights.
She was unable to board due to issues with seat extensions and wheelchairs and other equipment that would not hold her weight.
She had travelled to her summer home in Hungary with Delta and KLM Airlines but had reportedly put on weight during her trip.
According to reports, the couple's travel agent had told Delta/KLM before the trip that she needed to return home on October 15 to continue with medical treatment for kidney problems and diabetes.
But her husband Janos claimed the couple were told they could not fly on their original Delta/KLM flight from Hungary because the aircraft did not have the necessary seat extension.
He said they were directed to drive to Prague for a Delta/KLM flight home. At Prague, Soltez could not be transferred to the flight because equipment could not be found that would hold her weight.
Their New York travel agent then found them another flight with Lufthansa, via Frankfurt, but this was not viable for the same reasons despite three seats being available for the passenger.
According to the Daily Mail, a local fire crew were bought in to help move her into the seats but they could not lift her out of her wheelchair.
Delat, KLM and Lufthansa have issued statements explaining their reasons for being unable to accommodate her.
Lawyers are now considering legal action against the airlines for violating laws protecting the disabled.
and Delta, KLM sued for death of obese woman denied flight - CBS News
Last edited by Sober Lark; 27th Nov 2012 at 09:14.
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Europe
Posts: 1,416
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Southwest's (WN) rule seems pretty common-sense: if a passenger cannot fit in a seat with the armrests lowered, they are obligated to buy two seats.
PS In breaking news, EASA is struggling more than usual trying to translate the draft TOR for the Working Group; it was originally drafted in Gaelic (to satisfy quota issues and practice for the day when a Gaelic-speaking Scotland joins Catatonia as an EU Member) with a title roughly translated as "Safety of the Grossly Obese and those in their Vicinity". The Spanish went for "eliminación de las tinas de manteca de cerdo", the Hungarians preferred the pithier "forgatás az elhízott", which the Poles matched, in a sense, with Slavic solidarity, choosing "strzelanie otyłych". The French interpreter said "Je m'en fou" and retired to his favourite Cologne restaurant. The Germans said "Wir urinieren auf euch alle" and went back to the bar, beating up a few Serbs on the way. The Finns stripped off and went to the sauna, followed by the Swedish and Norwegians. The Greeks, Portugese and Italians could not be woken up. The Bulgarians, Irish and Czechs could not be revived. Slovakia wanted "Nariadenie aby obéznych ľudí na zemi", which was almost accurate. The UK CAA had 8 meetings, came up with "Regulations for Controlling the Impact of Very Large People on Passenger Safety" and went back for more tea. And so on; it is likely that the Regulation will never emerge from this Black Hole of Babel, as so many others have not done.
The Tower of Babel
Last edited by Capot; 28th Nov 2012 at 17:10.