London -Accra delays and cancelations on BA
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London -Accra delays and cancelations on BA
We seem to be getting a spate of tech issues, lateness or cancelations on the Lhr - Acc daily flight with BA, thats been 4 in 2 weeks.
Its 777s that are used but are they just using the old delapadated planes for this route or is this just how it roles. Certainly the flight i came out on for my rotation last week was just a heap inside with floor vents beside the seats broken or loose and moved, the entertainment system not working, some of the seats not working etc etc.
So why so many tech issues and how serious can these tech issues be ??
Its 777s that are used but are they just using the old delapadated planes for this route or is this just how it roles. Certainly the flight i came out on for my rotation last week was just a heap inside with floor vents beside the seats broken or loose and moved, the entertainment system not working, some of the seats not working etc etc.
So why so many tech issues and how serious can these tech issues be ??
Last edited by Dry wretched thunder; 25th Oct 2012 at 15:02.
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Labour shortage
BA in its wisdom downsized it's maintenance workforce a few years back in line with the reduced workload that the new airbus fleet required.
Along with this they also cut the engineering apprentice program.
Now they find themselfs with an increasing maintenance workload due to an ageing fleet and are squeezed between the rate of retirement and the three year lead time to get new apprentices trained.
The one thing you can be sure of is that the engineers at BA are not the type of pepole to let an aircraft fly with anything critical wrong with it and more than likely the state of the cabin is a reflection that the nif-naff & trivia is being left alone to enable them to make sure that the critical things are serviceable.
Along with this they also cut the engineering apprentice program.
Now they find themselfs with an increasing maintenance workload due to an ageing fleet and are squeezed between the rate of retirement and the three year lead time to get new apprentices trained.
The one thing you can be sure of is that the engineers at BA are not the type of pepole to let an aircraft fly with anything critical wrong with it and more than likely the state of the cabin is a reflection that the nif-naff & trivia is being left alone to enable them to make sure that the critical things are serviceable.
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As an aircraft engineer it's very good to see that the airworthiness issues are prioritised over the niff naff and trivia.
As a fare paying passenger, that niff naff and trivia becomes something that I am paying for. I expect to sit in a seat that works correctly, with IFE that works properly. Oh yes, and if there's a problem with the APU, that BA might find some other form of conditioning a sweltering cabin at places like DFW.
Then again I guess BA know the alternative is AA, so no alternative really!
As a fare paying passenger, that niff naff and trivia becomes something that I am paying for. I expect to sit in a seat that works correctly, with IFE that works properly. Oh yes, and if there's a problem with the APU, that BA might find some other form of conditioning a sweltering cabin at places like DFW.
Then again I guess BA know the alternative is AA, so no alternative really!
In my limited experience if they can't be bothered to fix the little bits and pieces it's indicative of the lack of personel, money or pride.
I gave up flying with them after a similar experience out to Dubai - thread bare carpets, entertainment system not working, paint peeling off and a dent in the aircraft. Similarly I won't fly with Delta again after having my legs bitten by fleas and a stupid reply from KLM who handle them.
I gave up flying with them after a similar experience out to Dubai - thread bare carpets, entertainment system not working, paint peeling off and a dent in the aircraft. Similarly I won't fly with Delta again after having my legs bitten by fleas and a stupid reply from KLM who handle them.
Unfortunately demand for seats to Accra means the airlines can sell just about everything so the competitive edge has been lost.
I always use KLM to Accra. Their planes are decent, service acceptable and prices competitive. From Scottish destinations you can also avoid the pain of LHR!
I always use KLM to Accra. Their planes are decent, service acceptable and prices competitive. From Scottish destinations you can also avoid the pain of LHR!
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East and Wst Africa routes always seemed to get hand me down A/C with BA in recent years that,s why I gave up using them on these routes and switched to Lufthansa / Emirates for East and West Africa. LH also has some old A/C knocking about but at least their interiors are ok although ICE far better on EK. As for servicing LH Tech has worlwide rep and EK have yet to give me cause for concern (yet). BA just seem to beleive their own publicity and trump the old sterotypical image. To paraphrase the line from the Battle of Britain movie script " The planes are old, the staff do not seem to care, the service is average, their hub is poor and time is running out for them". As a UK national from the North I find this sad but wild horses would not make me a reguler BA flyer again 
Paxing All Over The World
salad-dodger
Indeed. In the 34 years that I have worked in commerce I have seen a very great deal of cost cutting and the great thing is that - by the time the cost cutting shows up:
"Cheap - is Dear"
As an aircraft engineer it's very good to see that the airworthiness issues are prioritised over the niff naff and trivia.
As a fare paying passenger, that niff naff and trivia becomes something that I am paying for. I expect to sit in a seat that works correctly ...
As a fare paying passenger, that niff naff and trivia becomes something that I am paying for. I expect to sit in a seat that works correctly ...
- It often show up in unexpected areas that do not directly reflect on where the cuts were made.
- The 'Cutter' is up-up-and-away.
"Cheap - is Dear"
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Dry wretched thunder,
I can state with 100% certainty that certain aircraft are not prioritised on some routes because of cabin condition.
Unfortunately with the ACC flight, it being late in the evening has it's disadvantages in that if the aircraft does go tech, there's not a lot of flexibility to quickly stand in a spare aircraft. The same happened to me going to BOM last month. Aircraft went tech. Luckily one had just finished an engineering check so was only delayed 2 hours while they re-catered and refuelled.
The GE powered 777's (both the A market and the ER versions) are gradually being refurbished with the new Thales IFE system that is present on the new 777-300ER's. If you get to fly on one, you'll appreciate the difference. 18 aircraft are scheduled to get the refurb. At the end of this month, the project will reach the 50% mark when G-ZZZC rolls out making 9 aircraft completed. Each aircraft takes about a month to be reconfigured. Apart from the IFE system, all the interiors are being renewed.
The RR powered 777's are a little newer and tend to be in decent nick. Unfortunately, they'll always be the odd aircraft which is a bit tatty. The 747 fleet is in a worse condition. Unfortunately BA are very capacity limited at LHR and Cardiff and run a very tight schedule with very few spare aircraft. Competition is fierce and the delays to the A380's and 787's have meant a short-term restructure of the long haul fleet to absorb the delays.
Hope that's of some help.
Champ
I can state with 100% certainty that certain aircraft are not prioritised on some routes because of cabin condition.
Unfortunately with the ACC flight, it being late in the evening has it's disadvantages in that if the aircraft does go tech, there's not a lot of flexibility to quickly stand in a spare aircraft. The same happened to me going to BOM last month. Aircraft went tech. Luckily one had just finished an engineering check so was only delayed 2 hours while they re-catered and refuelled.
The GE powered 777's (both the A market and the ER versions) are gradually being refurbished with the new Thales IFE system that is present on the new 777-300ER's. If you get to fly on one, you'll appreciate the difference. 18 aircraft are scheduled to get the refurb. At the end of this month, the project will reach the 50% mark when G-ZZZC rolls out making 9 aircraft completed. Each aircraft takes about a month to be reconfigured. Apart from the IFE system, all the interiors are being renewed.
The RR powered 777's are a little newer and tend to be in decent nick. Unfortunately, they'll always be the odd aircraft which is a bit tatty. The 747 fleet is in a worse condition. Unfortunately BA are very capacity limited at LHR and Cardiff and run a very tight schedule with very few spare aircraft. Competition is fierce and the delays to the A380's and 787's have meant a short-term restructure of the long haul fleet to absorb the delays.
Hope that's of some help.
Champ
But where have all the A321 gone on S/H? Always a 320 or a 319 these days for Nice, Copenhagen, Frankfurt, Oslo etc, where they used to have 321s. They were always pretty full, as are the smaller aircraft, to the extent one wonders if they sell out..
But the ex BMI ones are not fit for purpose for Club Europe - no wardrobe, too small a galley with no sink, uncomfortable seats, no map display......absolute rubbish!
And a total pain in the a**e for the CC, too.
But the ex BMI ones are not fit for purpose for Club Europe - no wardrobe, too small a galley with no sink, uncomfortable seats, no map display......absolute rubbish!
And a total pain in the a**e for the CC, too.
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A321's - they're still around. They've had the same number for a number of years now. I guess you're just not seeing them on the same routes. They feature quite a bit on some of the shuttle flights and flights to Italy. I'm sure the guys in fleet planning know what they're doing with reassigning the aircraft. That's the beauty of the Airbus fleet - you can move capacity around with very little notice.
ex-bmi? Fully agree about the A319's. Whether they'll be a long term solution or not I don't know. BA have a tranche of 10 new A320's on order due for delivery from next year so maybe they'll replace the bmi machines? BA have tactically chosen the routes that have switched to T1 based on average number of passenger connections to long haul flights out of T5 as well as average number of Club passengers. These routes I presume have the least! (for those that don't know, the ex-bmi aircraft mainly are still confined to T1 ops with the occasional switch to T5 for operational reasons). The ex-bmi A321's with their refurbished Club cabins apparently are a joy to work and be a passenger on.
Champ
ex-bmi? Fully agree about the A319's. Whether they'll be a long term solution or not I don't know. BA have a tranche of 10 new A320's on order due for delivery from next year so maybe they'll replace the bmi machines? BA have tactically chosen the routes that have switched to T1 based on average number of passenger connections to long haul flights out of T5 as well as average number of Club passengers. These routes I presume have the least! (for those that don't know, the ex-bmi aircraft mainly are still confined to T1 ops with the occasional switch to T5 for operational reasons). The ex-bmi A321's with their refurbished Club cabins apparently are a joy to work and be a passenger on.
Champ
Tatty cabin interiors :
I don't buy many of the reasons given for "old" aircraft having dilapadated cabin furnishings.
In about 1991 (someone can give the exact date) I was on a BA One-Eleven, Birmingham to Edinburgh, in what I was aware was their last weeks of service. It was the last One-Eleven I flew in. I particularly recall that I noticed the cabin interior was absolutely immaculate, everything perfectly cleaned in every crevice, nothing showing any wear at all, no black streaks externally. It could almost have been in delivery condition. Well done the maintenance team at Birmingham
In contrast, a few years after this I was on my first 747-400, on an aircraft which was about 18 months old at the time, being advertised as the first of a new fleet. No point in concealing it was Virgin Atlantic. The cabin fittings etc exhibited the most extraordinary wear and tear, the "wonderful" novel IFE controls were completely frayed, ill-fitted carpet patches, etc. I presume it had never been touched since it was built.
There is far too much of the "this interior hasn't been cleaned" "Yes, but we're getting new ones in three years time so that's OK then" approach.
I don't buy many of the reasons given for "old" aircraft having dilapadated cabin furnishings.
In about 1991 (someone can give the exact date) I was on a BA One-Eleven, Birmingham to Edinburgh, in what I was aware was their last weeks of service. It was the last One-Eleven I flew in. I particularly recall that I noticed the cabin interior was absolutely immaculate, everything perfectly cleaned in every crevice, nothing showing any wear at all, no black streaks externally. It could almost have been in delivery condition. Well done the maintenance team at Birmingham
In contrast, a few years after this I was on my first 747-400, on an aircraft which was about 18 months old at the time, being advertised as the first of a new fleet. No point in concealing it was Virgin Atlantic. The cabin fittings etc exhibited the most extraordinary wear and tear, the "wonderful" novel IFE controls were completely frayed, ill-fitted carpet patches, etc. I presume it had never been touched since it was built.
There is far too much of the "this interior hasn't been cleaned" "Yes, but we're getting new ones in three years time so that's OK then" approach.
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I think the issue is if you are travelling with an airline like BA AND BEING CHARGED THEIR RATES for what ever class you travel in, you expect the a/c to be in reasonable condition externaly, and internaly to look at, never mind the tales of good engineering, which should be a given in the aviation industry. The fact that an opeartor is getting new a/c, or up grades in 18 months does little to help you when embarking on a 14hr hop in a tatty plane with none working in flight ents. Ok if you fly a lot you have seen every movie more than you care to, and if you can sleep no problem. It is very easy to get very blazay about this flying stuff, many on this forum have clocked up thousands of miles and maybe we forget what an experiance it is for the many people who fly with us. Airlines should be aware that many peoples experiance maybe a once a year event, or even once in a life time experiance, and the presentation of the product even if it is an old a/c should be better for all customers . If not then maybe a certain carrier will go the way of some other legacy carriers
.
. If not then maybe a certain carrier will go the way of some other legacy carriers .
Last edited by Mr Mac; 3rd Nov 2012 at 05:39. Reason: Poor spelling !
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I don't fly as much these days as I used to but I would like to add my 2 cents anyway. I have to say that some people worry that, if
to them, simple things like seats are not maintained then the worry is what major parts are also likely to fail. People can only judge
by using their eyes and words on a forum are not always as much comfort as some think. If it looks good then it probably is, however
if it looks scruffy.......
to them, simple things like seats are not maintained then the worry is what major parts are also likely to fail. People can only judge
by using their eyes and words on a forum are not always as much comfort as some think. If it looks good then it probably is, however
if it looks scruffy.......
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I dont think i have every departed on time in my 30+ flights to Accra.
This seems to be getting worse since T5 opened and especially now the flights seem to go from T5C. Getting inexperiecned African passenders to make it to a gate that far away is near impossible. on my last trip 7 pax did not make it to the gate and were offloaded.
The return trip to London is usually punctual as they start calling people to the gate about 3 hours before departure.
This seems to be getting worse since T5 opened and especially now the flights seem to go from T5C. Getting inexperiecned African passenders to make it to a gate that far away is near impossible. on my last trip 7 pax did not make it to the gate and were offloaded.
The return trip to London is usually punctual as they start calling people to the gate about 3 hours before departure.
