civvy cockpit access
Join Date: Sep 2001
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Well... I was on a major Asian carrier last week a couple of rows back from the front, and they certainly had a (m& f) couple in civvies in the jumpseats for most of the flight. Well actually, mainly for the t/o and landing, because being an A340 on a 4 hour run from a well know honeymoon destination they then apparently were allowed to take advantage of the crew rest facility behind the cockpit. I can't imagine what for 
Now, the guy looked like he might have been a colleague (he had the almost-crew-cut and certain air of superiority that crew have when on board) but I would be very surprised if the girl was, although I did take my first flight with this carrier with a female F/O the week before.
So I guess it depends who you know...
Now, the guy looked like he might have been a colleague (he had the almost-crew-cut and certain air of superiority that crew have when on board) but I would be very surprised if the girl was, although I did take my first flight with this carrier with a female F/O the week before.
So I guess it depends who you know...
Join Date: Dec 2001
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Christep,
I am sure that you find that they were indeed crew. If the female passenger was a relation, she to would have been treated as staff. Its what we in the industry call a perk.
"Little Jimmy" can't be allowed in the flight deck for obvious reasons. I'm sure you would'nt be happy if found airlines were still allowing casual flight deck visits in light of recent happenings.
I am sure that you find that they were indeed crew. If the female passenger was a relation, she to would have been treated as staff. Its what we in the industry call a perk.
"Little Jimmy" can't be allowed in the flight deck for obvious reasons. I'm sure you would'nt be happy if found airlines were still allowing casual flight deck visits in light of recent happenings.
Join Date: Sep 2001
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[aka HKGpax]
AOG007: thanks for the answer. In fact I would be perfectly happy for any pax to have a look round, at the descretion of the Captain. I don't subscribe to the "lock the crew away and give them guns" school of thought.
However, I am disturbed by the logical powers of whoever decides that the qualification for getting on the flight deck now includes only staff (OK) or anyone else who is in some loosely defined sense "with" an off-duty pilot. This is bizarre - I see no reason for assuming that someone is inherently less likely to cause a problem in the cockpit because they are friendly with another pilot. They will have been through no vetting at all, and it seems to me that this is an obvious security hole which is significantly more likely to endanger the aircraft than the presence of metal knives in the cutlery sets (for example).
Message to potential terrorists: if you want to get in the cockpit, seduce a crew member - it isn't hard (allegedly)
Having said that I don't think either of them is a significant threat compared to the risks incurred in crossing the road on the way to the airport, so personally I would be perfectly happy to go back to the way we were before September 11, with the addition of better screening and profiling on the ground. And what's more I will be doing my best to avoid travelling on any airline which tolerates firearms of any sort in the possession of anyone (crew included) on their planes.
AOG007: thanks for the answer. In fact I would be perfectly happy for any pax to have a look round, at the descretion of the Captain. I don't subscribe to the "lock the crew away and give them guns" school of thought.
However, I am disturbed by the logical powers of whoever decides that the qualification for getting on the flight deck now includes only staff (OK) or anyone else who is in some loosely defined sense "with" an off-duty pilot. This is bizarre - I see no reason for assuming that someone is inherently less likely to cause a problem in the cockpit because they are friendly with another pilot. They will have been through no vetting at all, and it seems to me that this is an obvious security hole which is significantly more likely to endanger the aircraft than the presence of metal knives in the cutlery sets (for example).
Message to potential terrorists: if you want to get in the cockpit, seduce a crew member - it isn't hard (allegedly)
Having said that I don't think either of them is a significant threat compared to the risks incurred in crossing the road on the way to the airport, so personally I would be perfectly happy to go back to the way we were before September 11, with the addition of better screening and profiling on the ground. And what's more I will be doing my best to avoid travelling on any airline which tolerates firearms of any sort in the possession of anyone (crew included) on their planes.
(I'm such a geek!)
Join Date: Aug 2000
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Christep,
It may have looked like easy access to the cockpit (which airline, btw) but the rules become more strict week by week. I am allowed to take Mr Pandora on the flight deck with me as he is married to me. Once there he must stay there. He cannot get up after take of, go back and sip champagne for the cruise and then pop in for the landing, which is his prefered tactic on a trip with me. Also I can allow immediate members of family. ie mother, father, briother, sister, my children (well, when I have some). You get the picture.
Now if I am a passenger, I can still ask to sit on the jumpseat if the flight is full. I can also (and have) ask if Mr Pandora or my mother etc can come and sit in there with me. The fact that they have a staff ticket with a ref as to who they are and how they are related to me and who I am is as good an ID as my verbal ID.
If my family members were travelling by themselves and the flight was full, they would have to produce adequate ID to show they were a family of staff. How they would do that - no one knows. Just last week we turned down a request (and left behind) the daughter of a BA director (LCG's for all you BA people reading - now the Capts scared for his job!) because she couldn't prove who she was without her dad there.
Also I am not allowed to let even my closest friend sit on the jumpseat while I operate. We even had a letter about it.
The sad thing is, it has spoilt a part of my job that I used to love. The 'staying in your seat' rule was brought about purely to make nervous pax feel safer, so now on a long sector we have to risk upsetting people, or wetting ourselves.
It may have looked like easy access to the cockpit (which airline, btw) but the rules become more strict week by week. I am allowed to take Mr Pandora on the flight deck with me as he is married to me. Once there he must stay there. He cannot get up after take of, go back and sip champagne for the cruise and then pop in for the landing, which is his prefered tactic on a trip with me. Also I can allow immediate members of family. ie mother, father, briother, sister, my children (well, when I have some). You get the picture.
Now if I am a passenger, I can still ask to sit on the jumpseat if the flight is full. I can also (and have) ask if Mr Pandora or my mother etc can come and sit in there with me. The fact that they have a staff ticket with a ref as to who they are and how they are related to me and who I am is as good an ID as my verbal ID.
If my family members were travelling by themselves and the flight was full, they would have to produce adequate ID to show they were a family of staff. How they would do that - no one knows. Just last week we turned down a request (and left behind) the daughter of a BA director (LCG's for all you BA people reading - now the Capts scared for his job!) because she couldn't prove who she was without her dad there.
Also I am not allowed to let even my closest friend sit on the jumpseat while I operate. We even had a letter about it.
The sad thing is, it has spoilt a part of my job that I used to love. The 'staying in your seat' rule was brought about purely to make nervous pax feel safer, so now on a long sector we have to risk upsetting people, or wetting ourselves.
