Flying for 12 hours with a corpse
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Flying for 12 hours with a corpse
Leaving Heathrow I was in seat 3A. As we entered the runway there was shouting from cabin crew behind me, telling someone to sit down. 3 minutes after becoming airborne a call went out over the PA asking for a medical professional. A short time later I see the passengers in seats 1A and 1K being moved. 30 minutes after departure a corpse is carried into the 1st class cabin and put in 1K. The poor chap had died as we were taking off. His unfortunate wife was put in 1A and cabin crew did their best to console her. So far, what happened was upsetting but everyone acted as best as can be expected. It is what happened next that bothers me.
We were flying for 12 hours to Singapore, so I, and everyone else, expected that we would land, either back at Heathrow or somewhere in Europe, and the poor man and his distressed wife would be off-loaded. But no - we pressed on! Thus for 12 hours I was sitting in a makeshift morgue and for 12 hours the poor woman 2 seats in front of me was forced to sit next to her husband's dead body. Some of the cabin crew were in tears at times and, let me assure you, having a decomposing body only a few feet away in not something which is easy to ignore.
So, as a humble SLF, my question is simple. Who amongst the professional pilots here would have done what our flight crew did?
We were flying for 12 hours to Singapore, so I, and everyone else, expected that we would land, either back at Heathrow or somewhere in Europe, and the poor man and his distressed wife would be off-loaded. But no - we pressed on! Thus for 12 hours I was sitting in a makeshift morgue and for 12 hours the poor woman 2 seats in front of me was forced to sit next to her husband's dead body. Some of the cabin crew were in tears at times and, let me assure you, having a decomposing body only a few feet away in not something which is easy to ignore.
So, as a humble SLF, my question is simple. Who amongst the professional pilots here would have done what our flight crew did?
Most very likely more to this than you can say here, or was obvious. but it does seem a little bazzare continuing on for that length of time. Interesting to see which airline was involved, but I could certainly understand, why this info would need to be witheld.
Assuming that there is a medical professional onboard to pronounce death then there is nothing to be gained by landing. There are a number of thing that need to be taken into account:
If you land somewhere else en-route to offload the body and his poor wife, you are potentially leaving her in a foreign country with no friends or family around which would be very very stressful. In my experience the partner would normal be consulted when making a decision. It may be in this case that his wife had family in Singapore and wanted to go there with the body for the support.
First class is often used to place the body due to the lesser amount of passengers present. If you felt uncomfortable, did you ask to move, perhaps back to business class or economy (or were you not that uncomfortable). If there was no option to move then you just have to make the most of it. Some airlines actually have a chilled compartment onboard to place bodies.
It is hard to criticize a decision like this as there are so many variables envolved in making the call to carry on, crew, operations, medlink, relatives would have all had input.
If you land somewhere else en-route to offload the body and his poor wife, you are potentially leaving her in a foreign country with no friends or family around which would be very very stressful. In my experience the partner would normal be consulted when making a decision. It may be in this case that his wife had family in Singapore and wanted to go there with the body for the support.
First class is often used to place the body due to the lesser amount of passengers present. If you felt uncomfortable, did you ask to move, perhaps back to business class or economy (or were you not that uncomfortable). If there was no option to move then you just have to make the most of it. Some airlines actually have a chilled compartment onboard to place bodies.
It is hard to criticize a decision like this as there are so many variables envolved in making the call to carry on, crew, operations, medlink, relatives would have all had input.
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You didn't say what airline you were flying, but I think somewhere you can find on airliners.net a picture of an SQ A340 that includes what amounts to an on board morgue slide-in locker designed for such occasions. One would assume SQ might have made similar arrangements for other long haul aircraft.
That said, it's not unheard of, lacking those type of dedicated facilities, for the deceased to be left in situ, or in some cases, placed in a toilet then marked u/s (how dignified, that?). Having had a certain amount of experience with the human body in far more gruesome circumstances, I don't think completing a flight with one of the departed would bother me as much as some pax do otherwise...
That said, it's not unheard of, lacking those type of dedicated facilities, for the deceased to be left in situ, or in some cases, placed in a toilet then marked u/s (how dignified, that?). Having had a certain amount of experience with the human body in far more gruesome circumstances, I don't think completing a flight with one of the departed would bother me as much as some pax do otherwise...
Paxing All Over The World
I work with the bereaved and have done so (part and now full time) for 21 years. I have often been involved with families that are repatriating bodies back to the UK when the person died on holiday etc. I have not, thus far, had a family with this situation.
Firstly - there is more to this than any onlooker can know.
I agree that the wife might well have asked to go to destination. Depending on the carrier, a demand to return to departure would probably have been met, despite horrendous costs and time delay.
When a death occurs you cannot possibly guess what the bereaved are thinking - for they hardly know themselves. They do what they think best at the time. If their child lived in SIN (or nearby), that would be the best place to go. Perhaps SIN was home. The carrier would have been able to contact all the usual people and the family there in advance of arrival.
I agree that to be landed in some mid-way point would FAR worse. Let's say that fuel burn allowed an easy stop at Rome. So she arrives with no Visa, cash or family or friends and has to arrange the storage/certification/repatriation of her husband? Not good.
As to 'decomposing body'. I appreciate that folks who have not encountered the recently dead are often feaful of this but - in the time that was going to elapse - nothing serious would have happened. Cabin crew would have been upset, of course, their job is to help their pax but they would have training in this.
Yes, it was horrible but NO, you do not know what messages passed between the Captain and the woman as to what to do.
In bereavement, there is no 'normal and until it happens to us, we do not know what we will do.
Firstly - there is more to this than any onlooker can know.
I agree that the wife might well have asked to go to destination. Depending on the carrier, a demand to return to departure would probably have been met, despite horrendous costs and time delay.
When a death occurs you cannot possibly guess what the bereaved are thinking - for they hardly know themselves. They do what they think best at the time. If their child lived in SIN (or nearby), that would be the best place to go. Perhaps SIN was home. The carrier would have been able to contact all the usual people and the family there in advance of arrival.
I agree that to be landed in some mid-way point would FAR worse. Let's say that fuel burn allowed an easy stop at Rome. So she arrives with no Visa, cash or family or friends and has to arrange the storage/certification/repatriation of her husband? Not good.
As to 'decomposing body'. I appreciate that folks who have not encountered the recently dead are often feaful of this but - in the time that was going to elapse - nothing serious would have happened. Cabin crew would have been upset, of course, their job is to help their pax but they would have training in this.
Yes, it was horrible but NO, you do not know what messages passed between the Captain and the woman as to what to do.
In bereavement, there is no 'normal and until it happens to us, we do not know what we will do.
Last edited by PAXboy; 21st Jul 2012 at 16:42.
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Load Toad, I was refering to your second line
. I didn't think it was fair to dismiss those who might be upset at having to share space with a corpse for 12 hours with a simple macho one-liner. It can be a sensitive issue for surrounding passengers too.
Man up and get on with it
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Despite the world becoming more and more egocentric it never ceases to amaze how situations where other people suffer can be turned into a "what about me" situation by people who are mere spectators.
"Man up and get on with it" is being mild.
"Man up and get on with it" is being mild.
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Personal reasons aside, the cost to the airline in terms of dumping fuel, returning to LHR, offloading the deceased, finding and offloading luggage, re-doing paperwork, re-fueling and then getting en-route again (which would all take hours before finding a new slot even comes in to play) is surely something which would have been considered by the pilot too. People will onward connections from SIN would also have to be re-booked at the airlines expense too. That would affect far more people in a bigger way than simply sharing the cabin with a dead body.
If the deceased was Singapore resident then it would make more sense to continue to SIN anyway to save the family big repatriation costs, which on top of a death are not exactly welcome.
There are countless reasons to continue to the intended destination and I think most pilots would have done so.
If the deceased was Singapore resident then it would make more sense to continue to SIN anyway to save the family big repatriation costs, which on top of a death are not exactly welcome.
There are countless reasons to continue to the intended destination and I think most pilots would have done so.
The dead hurt no one. The live people are the problem. Death is part of life - if that's a nasty surprise for you you have issues. The world is not all about you; it is about everyone else. You have feelings - you are entitled to them, Everyone else has feelings - they are entitled to them. The person died. Very sad for the relative. A difficult situation for the crew - they are trained to cope. They do. For you it is just a person asleep & covered up. The flight turns around, the 'plane lands at some other airport on route. Inconvenient, lots of other peoples feelings hurt (most of whom will not even know someone died) - the dead & the relative possibly even more inconvenienced.
We have to stop being a bunch of wussies always looking for 'my feelings'. They are your feelings - you are entitled to them - that does not give you a right to effect others.
We have to stop being a bunch of wussies always looking for 'my feelings'. They are your feelings - you are entitled to them - that does not give you a right to effect others.
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They are your feelings - you are entitled to them - that does not give you a right to effect others.
Having said that, you will note that at no time did I say or was I suggesting turning around or diverting. I have no opinion on that aspect. Playing Devil's advocate, the only thing I objected to, and reacted to, was your macho statement in reaction to what a passenger may have found a disturbing experience, to which you have now added further insult by calling them "wussies".
Since deaths on board a/c are not all that uncommon it could be a good idea for all long haul a/c to be equipped with a special locker to store a corpse in. In my opinion this would be a better solution than disturbing 1st Class passengers (the airline's premium source of revenue) with seat changes and the joy of sharing a confined space with a corpse.
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I'm certainly not an expert on this, but aren't there issues with corpses of urination, defecation and even potentially ejaculation, not to mention vocalizations as gases escape? Twelve hours would seem like enough time for these to be concerns.