Manchester airport/flybe
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Manchester airport/flybe
On Sunday July 1st I was booked on a flybe flight from man to cdg. Went to the airport 2 hours before the flight as recommended.. As I got to the check in counters, I noticed that the queues were extremely long for the AF flights yet for flybe there were only a few people. Once it was my turn at the flybe counter, the lady looked at my e ticket and decreed that since the flight is operated by AF then I need to stand in the long AF queue...this is strange even though my contract is with flybe and not AF?
With no alternative solution, I decided to stand in the long AF queue. Then I noticed the self check in machines.. So I left my place in the queue and proceeded to the machine.. Followed all the instructions, then the machine confirmed that I was checked in and that my boarding pass is being printed.. 10 mins later it was still telling me that it being printed... I called an AF lady and explained to her what happened.. She said don't worry, you are now checked in...and the boarding pass I asked? She said, just stand in the queue and the guys at the counter will issue it....
When I told her that this defeats the objective of using the machine and after arguing for a further 10 mins or so, she took me to a counter and got the boarding pass issued...
My questions are:
1. Was the person at the flyby counter correct in refusing to check me in?
2. What is the purpose of the self check in machines when they are not maintained and more importantly have paper in them?
3. Why are the queues so long for check in when it was only for a couple of AF A320 s?
With no alternative solution, I decided to stand in the long AF queue. Then I noticed the self check in machines.. So I left my place in the queue and proceeded to the machine.. Followed all the instructions, then the machine confirmed that I was checked in and that my boarding pass is being printed.. 10 mins later it was still telling me that it being printed... I called an AF lady and explained to her what happened.. She said don't worry, you are now checked in...and the boarding pass I asked? She said, just stand in the queue and the guys at the counter will issue it....
When I told her that this defeats the objective of using the machine and after arguing for a further 10 mins or so, she took me to a counter and got the boarding pass issued...
My questions are:
1. Was the person at the flyby counter correct in refusing to check me in?
2. What is the purpose of the self check in machines when they are not maintained and more importantly have paper in them?
3. Why are the queues so long for check in when it was only for a couple of AF A320 s?
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1. Whilst you can book via air france or flybe, any MAN CDG/CDG MAN sector included under the code share agreement, the operating airline could be the opposite. Whilst you booked via Flybe.com, the flight was operated by AF. At MAN AF are not handled by Flybe/Flight support. They are handled by swissport. As such they have seperate checking staff and desks, albeit located right next to each other.
2. I have no idea. Bad luck perhaps?
3. The vast majority of AF pax are connecting around the world. It takes longer to check them in, especially is one of the sectors is delayed as this will have a knock on to the transfer. If you happen to be checking in whilst passengers travelling to certain African destinations are at the desks.......expect a long wait. It happens all the time at the AF/BA/BE/SN desks. Apparently they never knew a baggage allowance existed, and that engine blocks for Toyota pick ups need to be sent as freight. Oh happy days.
2. I have no idea. Bad luck perhaps?
3. The vast majority of AF pax are connecting around the world. It takes longer to check them in, especially is one of the sectors is delayed as this will have a knock on to the transfer. If you happen to be checking in whilst passengers travelling to certain African destinations are at the desks.......expect a long wait. It happens all the time at the AF/BA/BE/SN desks. Apparently they never knew a baggage allowance existed, and that engine blocks for Toyota pick ups need to be sent as freight. Oh happy days.
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I always believed that on flights to Lagos Toyota engine blocks, washing machines and industrial water pumps are hand baggage and can be stored in the overhead racks or emergency exits.
Last edited by DC10RealMan; 6th Jul 2012 at 16:12.
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At EDI, BE and AF/KL check in next door to one another, yet the staff have nothing to do with one another (well they might go on tea break together). The BE desks as well as the ticket counter have a sign which states that for the flights to CDG you have to check in at the AF/KL desk.
As AF/KL and BE use totally different check in systems, staff and handling agents then you cannot simply walk up and check in with BE if you're flying on KL/AF. You can, by all means, buy a ticket for an AF flight on the BE website, but then codeshares are commonplace all over the world.
For example I used to work for a star alliance carrier. If a person who booked a flight on another Star Alliance carriers website came up we couldn't even see their booking let alone check them in, even if it was a codeshare with the airline I worked with.
The check in machines are useful if you have hand baggage only. If you have bags to drop off they are essentially useless unless you want to get a specific seat and then wait in line to drop off a bag. Often though it is cheaper for airlines to have a machine print out the boarding cards then to have a person on the desk do the same thing, so these machines are usually promoted. I imagine you could have simply gone to another machine and requested a boarding card reprint, not sure why the staff didn't give you that option. Certainly when I check in using a mobile I always choose to pick up my BC at the self service machines and have never had an issue, so they can surely simply reprint a card.
As someone else said, lines for the likes of AF are long and will take a lot of time. Passengers travelling to India or Africa with 52KG of hand baggage aside, you have to also take in to account the stringent visa and document checks which have to take place for some of the more exotic destinations and the fact that someone at the front of the line will be kicking off about being sat apart from their beloved on a 1.5 hour flight.
One day, if every airline uses the same check in system you might be able to dump your bag wherever you like, but until that happens then only certain people can put those 3 lettered stickers on them, I'm afraid.
As AF/KL and BE use totally different check in systems, staff and handling agents then you cannot simply walk up and check in with BE if you're flying on KL/AF. You can, by all means, buy a ticket for an AF flight on the BE website, but then codeshares are commonplace all over the world.
For example I used to work for a star alliance carrier. If a person who booked a flight on another Star Alliance carriers website came up we couldn't even see their booking let alone check them in, even if it was a codeshare with the airline I worked with.
The check in machines are useful if you have hand baggage only. If you have bags to drop off they are essentially useless unless you want to get a specific seat and then wait in line to drop off a bag. Often though it is cheaper for airlines to have a machine print out the boarding cards then to have a person on the desk do the same thing, so these machines are usually promoted. I imagine you could have simply gone to another machine and requested a boarding card reprint, not sure why the staff didn't give you that option. Certainly when I check in using a mobile I always choose to pick up my BC at the self service machines and have never had an issue, so they can surely simply reprint a card.
As someone else said, lines for the likes of AF are long and will take a lot of time. Passengers travelling to India or Africa with 52KG of hand baggage aside, you have to also take in to account the stringent visa and document checks which have to take place for some of the more exotic destinations and the fact that someone at the front of the line will be kicking off about being sat apart from their beloved on a 1.5 hour flight.
One day, if every airline uses the same check in system you might be able to dump your bag wherever you like, but until that happens then only certain people can put those 3 lettered stickers on them, I'm afraid.
I hate code share with a vengance. Everything that happened to you and worse happens with code share. I have always managed to avoid code share and I'm going to continue to do so even if I have to pay a bit more.
I hate code share with a vengance. Everything that happened to you and worse happens with code share. I have always managed to avoid code share and I'm going to continue to do so even if I have to pay a bit more.
I bought a GLA-BHX-CDG ticket from BE but because the BHX-CDG was operated by AF I could not check in online for both sectors. To add insult to injury, there is no transit lounge at BHX meaning on arrival I had to exit to landside, walk back to check in, queue to show my boarding pass and undress again for security. The same process on the return journey.
None of this rigmarole was mentioned by BE at booking and email complaints to BE have produced only Standard Reply 2A/1 from customer service. This is dishonest behaviour and obviously BE have not thought this through
farci, what you've said,and more.
My main gripe is that despite the requirement that is placed on the airlines to identify the actual carrier the public (if they read the bumpf) don't appreciate what travelling on a different carrier means.
1) You have to find the correct check in (which may be in a different building)
2) Baggage allowances both hold and hand are not the same and check in staff refuse to recognise the differences (they should).
3) Service on board can be significantly different I have no desire to travel on AA if I've booked BA.
4) The nature of service on board varies - if I've booked a full service carrier why should I pay for items I would get free (food, meals, headphones etc)?
5) Safety
I'm lucky in some ways. I've worked in the industry and I know what to look for but for the average passnger it's a nightmare.
My main gripe is that despite the requirement that is placed on the airlines to identify the actual carrier the public (if they read the bumpf) don't appreciate what travelling on a different carrier means.
1) You have to find the correct check in (which may be in a different building)
2) Baggage allowances both hold and hand are not the same and check in staff refuse to recognise the differences (they should).
3) Service on board can be significantly different I have no desire to travel on AA if I've booked BA.
4) The nature of service on board varies - if I've booked a full service carrier why should I pay for items I would get free (food, meals, headphones etc)?
5) Safety
I'm lucky in some ways. I've worked in the industry and I know what to look for but for the average passnger it's a nightmare.
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Code shares exist for only one reason. To divert unwitting passengers to interline connections that are in the interest of the airlines and not necessarily in the passenger's best interest.
In the good old days when airlines themselves owned the distributions systems the US DOT ruled that certain rules had to be followed when displaying/selling on systems uses by third parities (i.e. travel agents and other airlines). Displays/bookings done in house didn't have to follow these rules.
Flight displays had to be listed in the following order;
Non-stop flights,
Direct flights (flights with one or more enroute stops)
On-line connecting flights
Interline connecting flights.
There were algorithms for departure time requested and journey durations etc. The bottom line was that an on-line connection, even though worse for a passenger, would trump an interline connection.
The airlines effectively gamed the rules by showing direct flights, that were actually connecting flights, and by showing interline connections that were made to appear to be on-line connections.
All of this to the benefit of the airline and not the customer.
I remember a classic example of a journey from San Diego to Frankfurt on Northwest airlines. The journey actually involved a NW airlink flight SAN-LAX, a NW flight LAX-MSP, a KL flight MSP AMS and a KL flight AMS FRA.
the first lines of the display were the 'direct flights'
SAN FRA NW123 3 stops,
SAN FRA KL1123 3 stops,
Then the online connections:
SAN LAX NW456
LAX AMS NW123 2 stops
SAN LAX KL1456
LAX AMS KL1123 2 stops
SAN MSP NW456 1 stop
MSP FRA NW123 1 stop
SAN MSP KL1456 1 stop
MSP FRA KL 1123 1 stop
etc, etc, etc.
The best choice for the passenger, on the day, was a UA regional flight connecting to the LH non-stop flight to FRA. However this connection was pushed onto the second screen by all the devious fake direct flights and fake on-line connections.
Being on the second screen meant it was rarely sold by the 'typical' travel agent.
Since the airlines have now divested their controlling interests in the now-called GDSs the DOT decided to do away with these rules. Most, if not all, other regulators have done the same. However the GDS have shown no inclination of coming up with a better solution (that is better for the passenger) so the old rules are still being applied. Why not? If their customer (the airline) is happy they are happy.
In the good old days when airlines themselves owned the distributions systems the US DOT ruled that certain rules had to be followed when displaying/selling on systems uses by third parities (i.e. travel agents and other airlines). Displays/bookings done in house didn't have to follow these rules.
Flight displays had to be listed in the following order;
Non-stop flights,
Direct flights (flights with one or more enroute stops)
On-line connecting flights
Interline connecting flights.
There were algorithms for departure time requested and journey durations etc. The bottom line was that an on-line connection, even though worse for a passenger, would trump an interline connection.
The airlines effectively gamed the rules by showing direct flights, that were actually connecting flights, and by showing interline connections that were made to appear to be on-line connections.
All of this to the benefit of the airline and not the customer.
I remember a classic example of a journey from San Diego to Frankfurt on Northwest airlines. The journey actually involved a NW airlink flight SAN-LAX, a NW flight LAX-MSP, a KL flight MSP AMS and a KL flight AMS FRA.
the first lines of the display were the 'direct flights'
SAN FRA NW123 3 stops,
SAN FRA KL1123 3 stops,
Then the online connections:
SAN LAX NW456
LAX AMS NW123 2 stops
SAN LAX KL1456
LAX AMS KL1123 2 stops
SAN MSP NW456 1 stop
MSP FRA NW123 1 stop
SAN MSP KL1456 1 stop
MSP FRA KL 1123 1 stop
etc, etc, etc.
The best choice for the passenger, on the day, was a UA regional flight connecting to the LH non-stop flight to FRA. However this connection was pushed onto the second screen by all the devious fake direct flights and fake on-line connections.
Being on the second screen meant it was rarely sold by the 'typical' travel agent.
Since the airlines have now divested their controlling interests in the now-called GDSs the DOT decided to do away with these rules. Most, if not all, other regulators have done the same. However the GDS have shown no inclination of coming up with a better solution (that is better for the passenger) so the old rules are still being applied. Why not? If their customer (the airline) is happy they are happy.
I too hate code shares. NEVER use a BA codeshare with American - or Iberia. At least, not if you expect BA service - although Iberia Business Class was very good when I used it, economy isn't anything like as good as BA.
Business Class on an American transatlantic BA codeshare the other week was cr*p.
Business Class on an American transatlantic BA codeshare the other week was cr*p.
