Carry On Baggage - What A Mess

[Peter47]

I flew a mid afternoon short sector with Delta last year which was full of business passengers. I was allocated a seat at the rear of the aircraft so I thought that I would be in an early boarding group but I was actually in the last group. The reason was that priority was given to those in the higher tiers of their FFP. Everyone seeme to be travelling with a "wheely". The delays in boarding because the overhead bins (in an A319!) were full and people for the rear were pushing past those at the front were considerable. Excess baggage was checked in for free but I suspect that the elite FFP members would have been exempt from the $25 fees anyway. I went away thinking that it was certainly not the way to run an airline.

As a matter of interest does anyone know about airline contracts with third party handling agents? Obviously there will be an elements covering check in, despatch, push back, etc, but how is the charge for handling bags calculated? Is it a fixed charge per bag, and if so what sort of charge per bag are we talking about?

Obviously heavy baggage adds weight, but the I would not have thought the fuel burn penalty would be that high on a short haul flight. I dare say that airlines do rather better than recover costs certainly at $25 / £15 per bag.

[ExXB]

Originally Posted by Peter47

As a matter of interest does anyone know about airline contracts with third party handling agents? Obviously there will be an elements covering check in, despatch, push back, etc, but how is the charge for handling bags calculated? Is it a fixed charge per bag, and if so what sort of charge per bag are we talking about?

Obviously heavy baggage adds weight, but the I would not have thought the fuel burn penalty would be that high on a short haul flight. I dare say that airlines do rather better than recover costs certainly at $25 / £15 per bag.

Good questions, that can only be answered by going deep into the history of this crazy business. Back then there were few airports that had more than one ground handler, and that (for international flights) was usually the national, or dominant carrier at that airport. Through IATA the first ground handling agreements were made, but these focused on establishing the procedures for the smooth handling of an aircraft and it's myriad of things that needed doing. As this became a system of I'll handle your airplane, if you handle mine price for ground handling costs were not that important. Charges were non discrimanatory (these agrements were approved by governments) and were based on the turn of an aircraft type. I.e. not based on the number of passengers or bags - other than the charge for a DC8 - 63, would be higher than for a - 43.

For reasons not relevant for this thread, most large airports now have at least two ground handlers. Large dominant airlines continue to self-handle and act as third parties, however the basic agreements are still based on the IATA model. Of course as these agreements are no longer regulated by governments variations are increasingly common. I can't say if the LCCs have agreements based on the number of bags or people, but for practical reasons I can't see why that would be to their advantage.

When pricing some airlines use the price as a disincentive to discourage bag checking, not to reduce their costs, but to ensure quick turns. Cryanair is perhaps the most vocal on this point, but I'd guess others do the same thing. It's ironic that these airlines, who do not carry cargo (other than own stores) have buckets of room in the hold.

[MathFox]

Just curious - What % success rate on checked baggage would change your mind?

99.5% - 99.9% - 99.99%?

I would accept the current 99% iff carriers would be willing to pay a compensation for damages... Consider the cost of an €50/hour contractor picking his nose for a day while waiting for the airline to deliver his delayed toolbag. That's €400 per day in wages, add €100 for hotel and meals...

I have the feeling that the airline industry will work on improving the luggage system if they were forced to pay a decent (€500/day) compensation for delayed luggage. Now they get away with collecting the change fee for the delayed employee. (Consider what improvements to the luggage system can be made for €5/bag!)

[ExXB]

Originally Posted by MathFox

I would accept the current 99% iff carriers would be willing to pay a compensation for damages... Consider the cost of an €50/hour contractor picking his nose for a day while waiting for the airline to deliver his delayed toolbag. That's €400 per day in wages, add €100 for hotel and meals...

I have the feeling that the airline industry will work on improving the luggage system if they were forced to pay a decent (€500/day) compensation for delayed luggage. Now they get away with collecting the change fee for the delayed employee. (Consider what improvements to the luggage system can be made for €5/bag!)

As mentioned in a previous post in this thread compensation (in the sense that any damages you have suffered are covered) is governed by the Montreal Convention 1999 (aka MC99) up to a maximum of SDR1131 (€1327). But you must prove your loss. Compensation in the sense you get a packet of money whether or not you suffered any loss is not contemplated by the Convention.

[TightSlot]

FYI - Here are the official stats - do they change any minds in here?

[hval]

Tightslot,

FYI - Here are the official stats - do they change any minds in here?

Thank you for the link. That is interesting. Unfortunately it does not change my mind as my personal experience disagrees with those statistics. Having said that I will be making a journey where I will have to check in baggage. It will be interesting to see if my bag goes missing etc.

[ExXB]

I'm not certain that all carriers are included in those statistics. I think it's just those that participate in SITA's Baggage Tracer. I doubt if point-to-point airlines are included, but given that these carriers don't inter/online luggage their stats would only increase the worldwide average.

I think the lesson to learn from these statistics is that your chance of having your luggage mishandled increases dramatically if you are connecting and further it increases significantly if you have an interline connection.

So next time you are offered at 45 minute connection, try and take an earlier originating or later connecting flight.

Interline sure ain't what it used to be.

[ozslf]

It's not just bags that get thrown

While sitting waiting to depart from Dulles, my fiance and I were watching the luggage being thrown onto the conveyor to the aircarft - most bags about 3m, the heavy ones less. What really horrified us was that they threw the animal crates just as far!

Same flight: we saw our bags arrive at the aircraft behind the luggage cart, which shortly after raced off. The flight attendant assured us our bags were on the aircraft. Three hours later we established that mine was still in Washington DC

[WHBM]

Originally Posted by ExXB

I think the lesson to learn from these statistics is that your chance of having your luggage mishandled increases dramatically if you are connecting and further it increases significantly if you have an interline connection.

This is true of what is generally perceived as "mishandled" baggage, but there seems to be an increasing trend for dispatch to knowingly not load bags onto the aircraft, and just cross them off the loadsheet. Desperation for on-time departures to meet the published statistics, tight slot times, or tight crew duty times, all of which are increasingly scheduled closer to the limit, is one reason to just slam the pax in and go. Likewise booking seats right up to the hilt, it's then a hot day, and choosing for performance/max weight reasons to leave all the bags off (mentioning no names, various prop aircraft operators at London City on summer afternoons).

There are a significant number of pax, particularly the higher revenue ones, whose trip is ruined if they don't have their baggage delivered, and would rather disembark and travel later, or not at all, if their bag cannot come with them. But in practice nobody is told about this happening until they reach their destination, and quite often only discover it there after they have stood by the carousel for half-an-hour as well, when it has been known for hours.

[ExXB]

Obviously we need another EU Regulation to fix this problem.

[PAXboy]

WHBM

particularly the higher revenue ones, whose trip is ruined if they don't have their baggage delivered

Indeed. So they bring it onboard and in the recession more fo them are travelling in Y and more of them bring MORE on board!