Liability of a code-share partner to "get you there"

[WHBM]

Wondering who takes the responsibility of sorting out difficulties where a carrier stops service, but that flight was codeshared with others.

Specifically, looking at booking from London to Coimbatore, India. BA seems a good way, BA119 service to Bangalore, and then BA8927 onwards. All one ticket and one PNR. Except that second link is obviously not on BA, it's on Kingfisher.

Now there are a number of threads here about what is happening at Kingfisher at present, increasing losses, crews leaving, mass cancellations. So if this "BA" flight is booked, what happens if there is any further issue between now and travel. And if there should be an issue whilst actually over there, in a city with no BA representation, how does that get sorted out ? And by whom ?

[ExXB]

The liability rests with the marketing carrier, not the operating carrier. If you bought the ticket from BA on BA flights they are responsible for completing their end of the contract.

[davidjohnson6]

WHBM - suppose Kingfisher is still flying when you land in India but your flight is rescheduled to be 18 hours later because a lessor has seized a plane for non payment.

How valuable is your time and how much effort would it take going through the courts to get compensation for the delay ? Would it be a court in thd UK or one in India. Does a lessor seizing an aircraft count as airline's liability ?

Plenty of unknowns - purchas a ticket only if you have a good long book to read and have time to spare or a good backup plan while on the ground in India

[Haven't a clue]

Faced the same problem with a trip to Cochin flown last month but booked in November. BA would take me to Bangalore and a Kingfisher ATR on to Cochin. Kingfisher's reported financial problems were a major concern, but also I was also worried about hand baggage allowances on this codeshare flight (I carry a lot of expensive camera gear and it would easily exceed the 5kg Kingfisher allowance - no business class option).

Ended up booking Emirates to Cochin via DBX. And a wonderful experience that was too.

[ross_M]

Would it be a court in thd UK or one in India.

Does the EU Regulation 261/2004 apply to these scenarios? Say I book a ticket with BA that has a non-EU sector on a non-EU carrier and that sector gets delayed. Am I eligible to demand compensation from BA?

[ExXB]

In this specific scenario, an EU airline (BA) flight between two airports both of which are outside the EU, Regulation 261/2004 does not apply. Same deal on BA between SYD and SIN operated with their own metal.

And of course, Regulation 261/2004 does not provide for compensation in cases of delays. While the ECJ has ruled that some delays could be considered to be cancellations - this has not (yet) been sustained by national courts.

261/2004 is poorly written and just about every article is subject to vastly different interpretations.

[ross_M]

And of course, Regulation 261/2004 does not provide for compensation in cases of delays.

Hmm.. Are you sure?

Article 1
Subject
1. This Regulation establishes, under the conditions specified herein, minimum rights for passengers when:
(a) they are denied boarding against their will;
(b) their flight is cancelled;
(c) their flight is delayed.

Article 6
Delay
1. When an operating air carrier reasonably expects a flight to be delayed beyond its scheduled time of departure:
(a) for two hours or more in the case of flights of 1500 kilometres or less; or
(b) for three hours or more in the case of all intra-Community flights of more than 1500 kilometres and of all other flights between 1500 and 3500 kilometres; or
(c) for four hours or more in the case of all flights not falling under (a) or (b),
passengers shall be offered by the operating air carrier:
(i) the assistance specified in Article 9(1)(a) and 9(2); and
(ii) when the reasonably expected time of departure is at least the day after the time of departure previously announced, the assistance specified in Article 9(1)(b) and 9(1)(c); and
(iii) when the delay is at least five hours, the assistance specified in Article 8(1)(a).

Article 8
Right to reimbursement or re-routing
1. Where reference is made to this Article, passengers shall be offered the choice between:
(a) - reimbursement within seven days, by the means provided for in Article 7(3), of the full cost of the ticket at the price at which it was bought, for the part or parts of the journey not made, and for the part or parts already made if the flight is no longer serving any purpose in relation to the passenger's original travel plan, together with, when relevant,
- a return flight to the first point of departure, at the earliest opportunity;

[ExXB]

Yes I'm sure. What you refer to is not 'compensation' (i.e. a monetary payment) but the right to care (meals, hotac if necessary) and/or reimbursement.

'Compensation' as written in the regulation is applicable for denied boarding and cancellations.

[WHBM]

Thanks for all comments; hung on until now to book, Kingfisher were apparently excommunicated by IATA on Friday 9 March, which stopped all interline bookings, and then a day later they announced the cancellation of all remaining flights after a date near the end of March, although how many get to operate in the meantime remains to be seen.

Meanwhile BA have finally opened up a set of new internal connections on Jet Airways. If Air India going into Star Alliance is back on the cards again, I would have thought Jet might be looking at OneWorld for some feed.

[ExXB]

Originally Posted by WHBM

Thanks for all comments; hung on until now to book, Kingfisher were apparently excommunicated by IATA on Friday 9 March, which stopped all interline bookings

Suspension from the IATA clearing house does not automatically stop interline bookings. If another airline normally is in a payable situation with Kingfisher there would be no reason for that airline to stop interlining with them. The accounting would just have to be done directly rather than through the ICH.

The ICH is one of the intra-airline clearing systems. An airlines status with them does not have a bearing on IATA membership or participation in the IATA agency processes.

[Businesstraveller]

I had the opportunity to benefit from BA's jumbled code-share workings some months back. I booked a European flight from the UK via a BA code-share and then had to cancel the flight (for me but not the other travellers). Knowing the type of ticket I had, I was only expecting the taxes back from BA. However, nothing came back from BA until a few months later when I got an email from BA telling me that the return flight (that I'd already cancelled) had been cancelled by the operator. So I was offered the options of a) rebooking the flight or b) a full refund. Well in my position I was only to happy to click the 'full refund' button, which a couple of days later arrived in my account.

So maybe you'll do fine either way - I did.