APD tax dodging
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APD tax dodging
I'm looking at a trip with ultimate destination of NEV at end of March to early April.
Through tickets there are a waste of time, but BA to SKB is workable. As a plane nerd, SXM is even better, then the local hop from there is easy.
So, looking at prices:
BA LGW - SKB £703
AF BHX - CDG - SXM £705
AF CDG - SXM (same flight) £480 + £100 or so to get there.
Now I'll be going just before APD goes up, and assuming they use great circle route and LHR as the yardstick, I make SXM 4083 miles, which would normally put it in band C.
For anyone who knows the area, SXM is quite a unique situation geographically, in being a tiny island that is divided between the Kingdom of the Netherlands and France, so CDG-SXM is technically a domestic flight (St Martin French side is part of department of Guadeloupe, as French as Northern Ireland is British, with a bit more water in between).
If so, should a through ticket not be taxed at the same rate as EU flights, as the capital of St Martin (French side) is technically Paris? PTP (Guadeloupe) is also taxed at the same rate.
If I was local tourist board, I'd be asking questions - although the response would probably be to stop being so pedantic. Except that there's lots of places losing out from this level of APD, not least ourselves, as the UK becomes much more expensive to fly into than other countries.
The tax is levied on the final destination, not first port of call. So will canny operators ever provide a dynamic service where the ticket is made up of two portions (UK-hub + hub - lh dest) and a handling fee for through checking bags? Or would all that be too much hassle to roll into a binding contract?
So, rather than paying the £120 or so extra it costs for a through ticket, I'll gladly make my own way to Paris, get a cheap hotel, and still be better off.
For a business traveller, this is all way too much trouble, but for anyone who sees extra stops as a bonus, this is well worth doing. How far can they get away with pushing APD before this becomes more wide spread, rather than a niche activity?
Through tickets there are a waste of time, but BA to SKB is workable. As a plane nerd, SXM is even better, then the local hop from there is easy.
So, looking at prices:
BA LGW - SKB £703
AF BHX - CDG - SXM £705
AF CDG - SXM (same flight) £480 + £100 or so to get there.
Now I'll be going just before APD goes up, and assuming they use great circle route and LHR as the yardstick, I make SXM 4083 miles, which would normally put it in band C.
For anyone who knows the area, SXM is quite a unique situation geographically, in being a tiny island that is divided between the Kingdom of the Netherlands and France, so CDG-SXM is technically a domestic flight (St Martin French side is part of department of Guadeloupe, as French as Northern Ireland is British, with a bit more water in between).
If so, should a through ticket not be taxed at the same rate as EU flights, as the capital of St Martin (French side) is technically Paris? PTP (Guadeloupe) is also taxed at the same rate.
If I was local tourist board, I'd be asking questions - although the response would probably be to stop being so pedantic. Except that there's lots of places losing out from this level of APD, not least ourselves, as the UK becomes much more expensive to fly into than other countries.
The tax is levied on the final destination, not first port of call. So will canny operators ever provide a dynamic service where the ticket is made up of two portions (UK-hub + hub - lh dest) and a handling fee for through checking bags? Or would all that be too much hassle to roll into a binding contract?
So, rather than paying the £120 or so extra it costs for a through ticket, I'll gladly make my own way to Paris, get a cheap hotel, and still be better off.
For a business traveller, this is all way too much trouble, but for anyone who sees extra stops as a bonus, this is well worth doing. How far can they get away with pushing APD before this becomes more wide spread, rather than a niche activity?
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Just looking at a few more places - LHR-MOW is charged at the standard European rate of £12, but LHR-VVO gets billed at £60 (but actual distance is 5310, so that should be £75). Have Whitehall mandarins found a way of making sure long routes like this get clobbered too?
USA seems to be universal £60 rate - unless of course you do BFS-EWR. Presumably BFS-EWR-ATL goes back up to same £60 as BHD-LHR-ATL - otherwise I'd expect BA & DL to be grumbling about UA's competitive gift from the govt.
USA seems to be universal £60 rate - unless of course you do BFS-EWR. Presumably BFS-EWR-ATL goes back up to same £60 as BHD-LHR-ATL - otherwise I'd expect BA & DL to be grumbling about UA's competitive gift from the govt.
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Jabird
Your first port of call should be to visit the HMRC website and check out the rules. You are correct in that the total length of your journey is liable for APD but there are certain exemptions a stay of more than 24 hours in say CDG is normally enough to break the journey, but read the rules until you fall a sleep!
Also the GC distance is based on the capital of the country you are visiting so for example Hawaii is part of the US and is classed the same as Washington and you would pay less tax than flying to the Caribbean !
From Dublin the tax is only 3 euros even if you fly to AMS then long haul back west! But you have to factoring getting to Dublin and even FR go tech from time to time, of course you can avoid APD altogether if you fly by a private jet!
I think they even get you if you fly in economy to CDG & business the rest of the journey they still charge full business APD for the part of the journey they have no tax right over
Good luck
Also the GC distance is based on the capital of the country you are visiting so for example Hawaii is part of the US and is classed the same as Washington and you would pay less tax than flying to the Caribbean !
From Dublin the tax is only 3 euros even if you fly to AMS then long haul back west! But you have to factoring getting to Dublin and even FR go tech from time to time, of course you can avoid APD altogether if you fly by a private jet!
I think they even get you if you fly in economy to CDG & business the rest of the journey they still charge full business APD for the part of the journey they have no tax right over
Good luck
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I've already decided that I'll make my own way to Paris, probably Eurostar.
Nothing the UK govt can do to change the behaviour of its citizens once they are outside UK Plc. Afaik, BA to GCM isn't internal as they aren't treated in same way as French overseas dept. The market to French Caribbean is far too small for anyone to complain!
Yes, Hawaii is where it works in your favour.
Of course, Osbourne has admitted what we've known all along -APD isn't a green tax anyway, it is just a revenue raiser. If they really wanted to modify behaviour, they would tax the other way round, as there are alternatives to some short haul flights - but I think the £26 rtn already penalises UK domestic tourism enough!
I'd look at DUB for the USA - sometimes I've seen flights from there way cheaper than from say MAN - depends on if the airlines think they can get more yield on a direct route. There must be people who fly say BHX with FR, only then to fly DUB-LHR & back over to the USA!
Nothing the UK govt can do to change the behaviour of its citizens once they are outside UK Plc. Afaik, BA to GCM isn't internal as they aren't treated in same way as French overseas dept. The market to French Caribbean is far too small for anyone to complain!
Yes, Hawaii is where it works in your favour.
Of course, Osbourne has admitted what we've known all along -APD isn't a green tax anyway, it is just a revenue raiser. If they really wanted to modify behaviour, they would tax the other way round, as there are alternatives to some short haul flights - but I think the £26 rtn already penalises UK domestic tourism enough!
I'd look at DUB for the USA - sometimes I've seen flights from there way cheaper than from say MAN - depends on if the airlines think they can get more yield on a direct route. There must be people who fly say BHX with FR, only then to fly DUB-LHR & back over to the USA!
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Considering the often tight connection in CDG you are better off staying overnight in a cheap airport hotel.
Stops for me are usually a bonus - I already have a very long list of places in & around Paris I haven't seen yet. As an architect, that STARTS with the CDG terminal. So you are right - except I'll probably do two nights and stay in centre of Paris.
Flight departs 11:40 - no way I'd try and do that on a separate ticket BHX-CDG as a feeder, and even though that would still be with AF/BE anyway, the days of two tickets being joined & bags checked through are long gone.
