Airline pricing, I don't get it
Joined: May 2009
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From: Confoederatio Helvetica
That big-birded airline was selling tickets from FRA to LHR at a fixed price, but this fare category was not available if purchased in the UK or in France (for travel from FRA to LHR).
Directional pricing, on the other hand, is the norm, not the exception. I'll be happy to explain, but that's going to cost you CHF10 (or GBP10 if purchased in the UK)
Joined: May 2009
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From: Confoederatio Helvetica
Happens thousands of times a day, and carriers factor it into their overall no show calculations for overbooking percentages. So while you are doing this the carrier is already factoring it into sellng the seat on that final sector for a second time.
You won't be in breach of contract because in the (very few) cases which have come into legal contention, the Unfair Contract Terms Act has been applied and such contract "terms" have been held to be a nonsense and set aside.
You won't be in breach of contract because in the (very few) cases which have come into legal contention, the Unfair Contract Terms Act has been applied and such contract "terms" have been held to be a nonsense and set aside.
Lets face it. The airline has a price for every conceivable journey you may wish to take. It is not your right to substitute the price for the journey you take with the price for a journey you are not taking. Nothing different than switching price tags in a shop.
Practically speaking, it is unlike that the airline will charge you if you don't use the last coupon. But if you make a practice of this they will cotton on and can refuse your bookings in the future.
Joined: Sep 2004
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From: Coventry
Directional pricing, on the other hand, is the norm, not the exception.
Exactly the same is true for UK rail fares - I have been charged a couple of £ more for London-Coventry RTN as opposed to Coventry-London RTN, even when in this case, the legs (off-peak) could be taken in the same time slot. As for peak demand into London in the morning, it is much greater than in the other direction - walk up fares don't always reflect that, but advance fares should.
And there have been cases of people with advance tickets alighting, e.g. in Exeter when they are ticketed to Penzance (from London), and being levied a £150 surcharge for breach of contract.
I think the concept of passengers breaching contract sounds so odd when operators fail to deliver the service as specified so often (delays, canx, re-routing, lost bags etc) - but a lot of the time the contract exempts them anyway.
Low cost airlines also seem to get away with a few subtle differences too in different directions, but I think a lot of this is down to currency calculations - Ryanair famously working on 1:1 parity £ to € for a while (when it suited them of course).
Were LCCs to make significant inroads into the long haul market, maybe this pricing anomalies would start to get ironed out, but I think we know the economies of doing so are stacked against them.
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 78
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From: Midwest US
LHR to PHL
Another option would be to look for a low fare LHR-BWI (Baltimore-Washington International) and continue to Philadelphia on Amtrak from BWI airport station. There is a free shuttle from BWI airport terminal to the rail station, and journey times from there to Philadelphia 30th St. Station are 1hr20min to 1hr31min...and the Acela trains do serve BWI airport station.
Joined: Sep 2004
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From: Coventry
twb3,
Yeah, but is that not just a daily 767 with BA? I've never known it be a good way in for low fares - CO will give you the Amtrak leg as part of a ticket.
And I bet the cheapest routing to BWI is LHR-PHL-BWI anyway
Yeah, but is that not just a daily 767 with BA? I've never known it be a good way in for low fares - CO will give you the Amtrak leg as part of a ticket.
And I bet the cheapest routing to BWI is LHR-PHL-BWI anyway
Joined: Sep 2004
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From: Coventry
Yeah, but is that not just a daily 767 with BA? I've never known it be a good way in for low fares
Also - try searching LON-BWI, then LON-WAS. Even though BWI is a WAS airport, search on its own, and I get £368 rtn (20-27 Mar), but for WAS, cheapest is £387 - both connections, not direct.
So that's another anomaly for you.
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 10
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From: Germany
I once attended a talk by someone working for Amadeus, a software company that specialises in software for the travel industry. ("Selected Challenges from Distribution and Commerce in the Airline and Travel Industry", by Francois Laburthe, CPAIOR 2008)
Unfortunately, I seem to have lost my notes, but from what I remember, a key point was that the reservation systems not only calculate with the known fare classes, but subdivide these classes further many times over. Each of these subclasses has its own price tag and may only be available within a given time window, i.e., a certain number of ticket for a given class and a given price may be available so many days before the flight between hours x and y (yes, the price may depend on the time of day). Whether a certain price is quoted to you then depends on, among other things, the time the request was made, whether the system thinks you're a business traveler or not, whether the system thinks that it will be able to sell seats in this class at a higher price at some later point, etc.
Here are two excerpts from the talk's abstract:
Unfortunately, I seem to have lost my notes, but from what I remember, a key point was that the reservation systems not only calculate with the known fare classes, but subdivide these classes further many times over. Each of these subclasses has its own price tag and may only be available within a given time window, i.e., a certain number of ticket for a given class and a given price may be available so many days before the flight between hours x and y (yes, the price may depend on the time of day). Whether a certain price is quoted to you then depends on, among other things, the time the request was made, whether the system thinks you're a business traveler or not, whether the system thinks that it will be able to sell seats in this class at a higher price at some later point, etc.
Here are two excerpts from the talk's abstract:
Airlines are increasingly moving towards complex commercial policies, with numerous fare classes potentially available on a given flight and where the decision of the actual availability of a fare depends on many characteristics of the request (end-to-end journey, channel through which the request is arriving, membership to loyalty program tier, ...).
and:Revenue management systems include a forecaster (estimating the future potential sales of tickets from now till the day of departure) and an optimizer (defining the appropriate inventory controls from the forecasted demand). Modern airline revenue management systems include end-to-end availability logic which states that an itinerary should be available for sale if its yield to the airline is greater than the sum of the opportunity costs on each segment of the trip. Moreover, this network logic is often furter tailored by means of fare modifiers which further restrict the availability in cases of hints that the request is originating from a business traveler.
Note the statement about "end-to-end availability logic". That means that the longer trip will be available at a lower price if the expected yield is higher than what the system expects to earn from selling tickets for the individual segments.
Paxing All Over The World
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 10,842
Likes: 328
From: Hertfordshire, UK.
Most interesting TJW.
This 'fine slicing' of prices is also seen in the mobile phone (Cell) market. They started with three tariffs and now there are dozens. When I renew my contract I have often been told, "That tariff is no longer available" So a tariff that worked well for me, balancing minutes and messages and so on - is removed. Possibly because it was too nice for me?
Utility companies now do the same for electricity and gas.
One objective is ensure that you can never find the same tariff/fare again and that there is little or no direct comparison with the competitors. For, if the fare/tariff is different to all others - then it is more difficult for price comparisons to take place. Of course, many of the differences are in the small print - which do not usually get read. These might be about refunds, rerouting etc.
So, all you can do is look at the price that is presented on the screen at the time you want/need to book and decide if that is acceptable to you. Trying to chase down savings of £/$/€10 or 50 will drive you mad and waste more time than it is worth.
This 'fine slicing' of prices is also seen in the mobile phone (Cell) market. They started with three tariffs and now there are dozens. When I renew my contract I have often been told, "That tariff is no longer available" So a tariff that worked well for me, balancing minutes and messages and so on - is removed. Possibly because it was too nice for me?
Utility companies now do the same for electricity and gas.
One objective is ensure that you can never find the same tariff/fare again and that there is little or no direct comparison with the competitors. For, if the fare/tariff is different to all others - then it is more difficult for price comparisons to take place. Of course, many of the differences are in the small print - which do not usually get read. These might be about refunds, rerouting etc.
So, all you can do is look at the price that is presented on the screen at the time you want/need to book and decide if that is acceptable to you. Trying to chase down savings of £/$/€10 or 50 will drive you mad and waste more time than it is worth.
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 10
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From: Germany
I think the pricing policies of airlines and utilities are related phenomena, but not quite the same. In both cases, what used to be simple pricing rules have been replaced by byzantine schemes in order to maximise revenue.
With utilities, I agree that one of their goals seems to be to make comparisons of different tariffs as difficult as possible by altering the T&Cs ever so often. The price that is quoted up-front seems to be stable over time, but it's near impossible to work out what you'll pay in the end unless you chose an "all-inclusive" option. So the moving target here are the T&Cs.
It's different with airline ticket pricing. Here, the moving target are the ticket costs, not the T&Cs (unless you consider cases as Ryanair, where new chargeable extras are introduced every so often). The revenue management systems are designed to extract as much money as possible while still making the sale. Request for single seat coming in during office hours? Must be business traveller, so quote higher price. Request for adults+children during evening? Family, so quote lower price, unless system still expects to sell seats at higher price to business travellers, or it's late booking, or some of the myriad other rules applies.
As someone working in planning&optimization, I find these problems and the question of how to solve them algorithmically highly interesting. As a customer, I find it highly annoying, and agree that it just drives you mad trying to hunt down the best bargain. Similar to driving across town to buy milk that is fractionally cheaper. Also, and in my opinion most importantly, training your customers to be bargain hunters does not make them loyal customers.
With utilities, I agree that one of their goals seems to be to make comparisons of different tariffs as difficult as possible by altering the T&Cs ever so often. The price that is quoted up-front seems to be stable over time, but it's near impossible to work out what you'll pay in the end unless you chose an "all-inclusive" option. So the moving target here are the T&Cs.
It's different with airline ticket pricing. Here, the moving target are the ticket costs, not the T&Cs (unless you consider cases as Ryanair, where new chargeable extras are introduced every so often). The revenue management systems are designed to extract as much money as possible while still making the sale. Request for single seat coming in during office hours? Must be business traveller, so quote higher price. Request for adults+children during evening? Family, so quote lower price, unless system still expects to sell seats at higher price to business travellers, or it's late booking, or some of the myriad other rules applies.
As someone working in planning&optimization, I find these problems and the question of how to solve them algorithmically highly interesting. As a customer, I find it highly annoying, and agree that it just drives you mad trying to hunt down the best bargain. Similar to driving across town to buy milk that is fractionally cheaper. Also, and in my opinion most importantly, training your customers to be bargain hunters does not make them loyal customers.
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 472
Likes: 1
From: Potomac Heights
Just to add another observation related to the baggage issue. On flights to the US, even if you checked your baggage through to a final destination beyond your first entry point into the US, you will have to claim your baggage off the belt at your first entry point and pass customs. Ordinarily, you would then immediately return the baggage to the airline at a recheck desk -- but there is absolutely nothing preventing you from keeping it with you and walking out of the airport. So you needn't worry about not being able to check baggage if you were planning on skipping this last leg.
