BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions V
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Litebulbs
is it some deep plan(t) to bring down the Guv'nor?
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Psychologist
Well, if the collective psychosis of 5700 of your customer facing workforce continues to be led and influenced by the likes of DH (with SWP add-ons), irrespective of how illogical that might appear to those outside of planet BASSA, employing a good shrink to help understand, and more importantly, turn around that collective psychosis is a very sound business/commercial strategy. Where else do BA go without using the nuclear button ?
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Couldn't agree more Hipennine. It's a great move designed to address the problem, not the way the problem is manifested. A clinically trained specialist in group dynamics and communication will quickly diagnose the trouble.
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1997, nothing much has changed!
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@ Litebulbs
The above article from 1997 contains the following :
You have mused a few times that you feel any commission payments(unverified for current situation ) would be unacceptable.
In light of the above quote and general knowlege that big things like this don't change without a huge public fuss, would you not think that it now seems more likely that there is a big rake-off going to the lay-official(s) ?
The above article from 1997 contains the following :
Mr Coleman picks up nearly pounds 50,000 a year just in commission on his members' pounds 120 annual union subscription.
Mr Coleman also gets a 7 per cent cut from union subscriptions and pounds 75 a day he receives from branch
Mr Coleman also gets a 7 per cent cut from union subscriptions and pounds 75 a day he receives from branch
In light of the above quote and general knowlege that big things like this don't change without a huge public fuss, would you not think that it now seems more likely that there is a big rake-off going to the lay-official(s) ?
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The parallels to 1997 in that article are remarkable:
- BASSA and CC89 at war with each other
- BASSA Branch Secretary sacked for gross misconduct
- Systematically weak administration on the part of BASSA
The real difference this time is of course in 1997 the LCCs and Middle Eastern carriers were tiny compared today, oil wasn't at $110 a barrel, there was no punitative taxation of aviation, no easy online price comparisons between airlines.
Running an airline was a walk in the park then compared to today.
Pity BASSA have had their fingers in their ears ever since.
- BASSA and CC89 at war with each other
- BASSA Branch Secretary sacked for gross misconduct
- Systematically weak administration on the part of BASSA
The real difference this time is of course in 1997 the LCCs and Middle Eastern carriers were tiny compared today, oil wasn't at $110 a barrel, there was no punitative taxation of aviation, no easy online price comparisons between airlines.
Running an airline was a walk in the park then compared to today.
Pity BASSA have had their fingers in their ears ever since.
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As discussed before by several of us, this entire matter is a very bad and sad indictment for the dreadful state of the Trade Union movement in the UK today.
A picture of WW with red eyes on Unite BA CC's front webpage pretty much sums it all up for me - high school children, if that!
I'm sure that BA, while wanting to negotiate collectively with a representative union rather than CC individually, would much prefer dealing with a professional entity run at a similar level to that at which it handles its own PLC affairs.
The CC members should demand nothing less themselves in exchange for their monthly subs.
Perhaps this is what PCCC are trying to offer if they could only pluck-up enough courage to face the BASSA bullying and unpleasantness head-on to get their message across to CC.
Beyond that CC will get the representation that they choose.....
A picture of WW with red eyes on Unite BA CC's front webpage pretty much sums it all up for me - high school children, if that!
I'm sure that BA, while wanting to negotiate collectively with a representative union rather than CC individually, would much prefer dealing with a professional entity run at a similar level to that at which it handles its own PLC affairs.
The CC members should demand nothing less themselves in exchange for their monthly subs.
Perhaps this is what PCCC are trying to offer if they could only pluck-up enough courage to face the BASSA bullying and unpleasantness head-on to get their message across to CC.
Beyond that CC will get the representation that they choose.....
Last edited by AV Flyer; 12th Apr 2011 at 17:50.
Frognal,
technically, that is correct. To section someone with the sort of paranoid schizophrenia or whatever psychosis is at work, would require both a clinical psychologist AND and psychiatrist.
My only problems with that are that the nutty medics at Uni all did psychiatry, and the nutty psychologists all wanted to go down the clinical route.
Have the medics made any progress yet with lobotomy reversals?
technically, that is correct. To section someone with the sort of paranoid schizophrenia or whatever psychosis is at work, would require both a clinical psychologist AND and psychiatrist.
My only problems with that are that the nutty medics at Uni all did psychiatry, and the nutty psychologists all wanted to go down the clinical route.
Have the medics made any progress yet with lobotomy reversals?
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Ancient Observer
Emperical evidence from this dispute suggests that lobotomies performed on senior union (and some may also say senior executives) have not yet been reversed successfully, given the behaviours.
I don't think a clinical pyschologist is needed, just a psychiatrist with a bulk supply of strait jackets and a very large syringe
Or a very optimistic psychiatrist
Emperical evidence from this dispute suggests that lobotomies performed on senior union (and some may also say senior executives) have not yet been reversed successfully, given the behaviours.
I don't think a clinical pyschologist is needed, just a psychiatrist with a bulk supply of strait jackets and a very large syringe
Or a very optimistic psychiatrist
Last edited by Frognal; 12th Apr 2011 at 17:55.
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Last Friday, April 8, Duncan said "We will update you further after the weekend but for now, enjoy the sunshine and let us do what we do best, look after you." Duncan we are waiting.
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If reports of very lucrative payments are true (which unbelievably no members seem to actually know for sure), then you have a justification for a very serious resource guarding battle. Some might not want to give up that kind of income stream without a fight.
It is now beginning to smell. Right there is probably the nub of this ridiculous dispute. It is time for the rules to be observed and BASSA's accounts being made available. Thoughts are inevitably wandering and it is incumbent upon BASSA to produce them for inspection - last week would not be too soon. It cannot be a problem to open the accounts for inspection if there is nothing to hide. I am not suggesting for one moment there is but doubt is rising.
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Litebulbs:
I don't see you as an individual who tries to defend the indefensible..not in the least.
You have a firm belief that an honourable Union, acting in the best interests of its members is a valuable entity.
I believe many here share your belief. It is frustrating for me to consider some of the conduct observed during this "situation" and I am not a Union member. It must be even more painful for those who have worked, for the right reasons and with the right intentions, the Union side.
I'm hopeful that there will be change within BASSA. It would be a great thing for the Cabin Crew community and my personal opinion is that they deserve better than what they are receiving at the moment.
I don't see you as an individual who tries to defend the indefensible..not in the least.
You have a firm belief that an honourable Union, acting in the best interests of its members is a valuable entity.
I believe many here share your belief. It is frustrating for me to consider some of the conduct observed during this "situation" and I am not a Union member. It must be even more painful for those who have worked, for the right reasons and with the right intentions, the Union side.
I'm hopeful that there will be change within BASSA. It would be a great thing for the Cabin Crew community and my personal opinion is that they deserve better than what they are receiving at the moment.
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Diplome
Cheers, but I suppose it is only fair to say that my beliefs and self proclaimed moral high ground (blowing smoke up my own backside on rereading!), only counts for the left had side of the world! There are plenty on here who think that me and my lot are all something from a previous era; individual rights and all.
Frognal,
technically, that is correct. To section someone with the sort of paranoid schizophrenia or whatever psychosis is at work, would require both a clinical psychologist AND and psychiatrist.
My only problems with that are that the nutty medics at Uni all did psychiatry, and the nutty psychologists all wanted to go down the clinical route.
Point of order, but this is incorrect. In order to detain someone under the Mental Health Act outside of a hospital setting you require the assessments of a psychiatrist, another doctor (who may or may not be a psychiatrist, it's often a GP) and an Approved Mental Health Professional, who is a social worker 99.99% of the time but could theoretically be a nurse, although I've never seen one.
In a hospital a detention can be carried out by a doctor or an RMN nurse but not a psychologist (unless they are registered as an RMN as some have done this first).
Psychologists aren't used as they aren't qualified to carry out the detention, even the clinical ones.
Back to the thread!
technically, that is correct. To section someone with the sort of paranoid schizophrenia or whatever psychosis is at work, would require both a clinical psychologist AND and psychiatrist.
My only problems with that are that the nutty medics at Uni all did psychiatry, and the nutty psychologists all wanted to go down the clinical route.
Point of order, but this is incorrect. In order to detain someone under the Mental Health Act outside of a hospital setting you require the assessments of a psychiatrist, another doctor (who may or may not be a psychiatrist, it's often a GP) and an Approved Mental Health Professional, who is a social worker 99.99% of the time but could theoretically be a nurse, although I've never seen one.
In a hospital a detention can be carried out by a doctor or an RMN nurse but not a psychologist (unless they are registered as an RMN as some have done this first).
Psychologists aren't used as they aren't qualified to carry out the detention, even the clinical ones.
Back to the thread!
Sonorguy - Er, OK. We just had a moment of Jet Blast, so I joined in.
Looking forward, how on Earth are future relationships in the BA CC world to be re-set, and then properly maintained? It will take more than one psychologist. Over 5,000 normally reasonably intelligent folk are still voting for Industrial Action.
There is plenty of evidence that high performing Companies perform better than mediocre Companies by having a better "Climate". Climate is the Quantification of culture. Google Glowinkowski for more info, and/or read his book. (Amazon have it).
The "Climate" in BA CC needs to be measured, and those bits that are poor need to be changed - radically. This sort of change takes time - at least 2 years and up to 5 years.
Meanwhile, we pax have to put up with cheaper products as dictated by BA served to us by some staff who are clearly great and switched on to service, and others who are, er, not quite so well motivated.
Further, unless BA are going to fire the bad performers - and dodgy reps, and I see little evidence that they are going to, relationships will need to be re-built with (hopefully) a re-launched bassa (or maybe PC3) and a new group of sensible representatives.
Quite a job to be done.
As I've said before, I would start by energising the managers of CC - and if necessary increasing their numbers whilst getting rid of/"creatively externally re-deploying" those CC managers who want a desk job, and who can't/won't make the effort to get out there pro-actively to meet the crew on a regular basis.
I'd also remove from line roles those CSDs who see them selves as strike leaders rather than as first line leaders in a potentially great Company.
However, I would like to see more signs that this is happening!!
Looking forward, how on Earth are future relationships in the BA CC world to be re-set, and then properly maintained? It will take more than one psychologist. Over 5,000 normally reasonably intelligent folk are still voting for Industrial Action.
There is plenty of evidence that high performing Companies perform better than mediocre Companies by having a better "Climate". Climate is the Quantification of culture. Google Glowinkowski for more info, and/or read his book. (Amazon have it).
The "Climate" in BA CC needs to be measured, and those bits that are poor need to be changed - radically. This sort of change takes time - at least 2 years and up to 5 years.
Meanwhile, we pax have to put up with cheaper products as dictated by BA served to us by some staff who are clearly great and switched on to service, and others who are, er, not quite so well motivated.
Further, unless BA are going to fire the bad performers - and dodgy reps, and I see little evidence that they are going to, relationships will need to be re-built with (hopefully) a re-launched bassa (or maybe PC3) and a new group of sensible representatives.
Quite a job to be done.
As I've said before, I would start by energising the managers of CC - and if necessary increasing their numbers whilst getting rid of/"creatively externally re-deploying" those CC managers who want a desk job, and who can't/won't make the effort to get out there pro-actively to meet the crew on a regular basis.
I'd also remove from line roles those CSDs who see them selves as strike leaders rather than as first line leaders in a potentially great Company.
However, I would like to see more signs that this is happening!!