BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions V
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What some acronyms stand for
IFCE = In Flight Customer Experience
NSP = National Sectional Panel
BRG = Business Review Group
FRG = Fleet Review Group
EG901 is disciplinary procedure
However what is much more difficult is to explain the purpose and meaning of these five items._ NSP for example has been equated to BASSA - but BASSA is the past, and the settlement is a sketchy outline of the future.
This is the point where it would be useful for cabin crew to correct any errors I have made so far in today's postings.
NSP = National Sectional Panel
BRG = Business Review Group
FRG = Fleet Review Group
EG901 is disciplinary procedure
However what is much more difficult is to explain the purpose and meaning of these five items._ NSP for example has been equated to BASSA - but BASSA is the past, and the settlement is a sketchy outline of the future.
This is the point where it would be useful for cabin crew to correct any errors I have made so far in today's postings.
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Notlangley
I am hoping that the union will rename itself UNITE and not use the name BASSA.
Firstly people like me would feel unable to join if that name is retained and BA actually like all crew to be in a union because they want to be negotiating with the representatives of ALL crew and not just some crew.
Secondly it would be hard for CC89(AMICUS) members to accept having to rejoin BASSA.
Thirdly a new start with new input from the parent union would be good and look to the future for all. Fleet review probably discusses rostering and allowances etc. and Business probably discusses things like product and service.
IFCE is the name BA call the department that covers cabin crew and the products served to passengers in-flight.
EG901 is just the code BA gives to a disaplinary proceedure in there big book of proceedures and codes of practice, there are hundreds of EG... something or others to cover every different kind of situation.
The meeting names are just different groups that discuss different issues and if agreement does not happen it all gets passed up to the NSP meetings. These meetings are all being reduced and also the number of reps attending them, from what was there before, and the names are of no consequence really and are just name BA have deecided to call each meeting type.. ie Fleet probably discusse rostering and allowances, transfers etc. and Business probably discusses product and services on board etc.
I am hoping that the union will rename itself UNITE and not use the name BASSA.
Firstly people like me would feel unable to join if that name is retained and BA actually like all crew to be in a union because they want to be negotiating with the representatives of ALL crew and not just some crew.
Secondly it would be hard for CC89(AMICUS) members to accept having to rejoin BASSA.
Thirdly a new start with new input from the parent union would be good and look to the future for all. Fleet review probably discusses rostering and allowances etc. and Business probably discusses things like product and service.
IFCE is the name BA call the department that covers cabin crew and the products served to passengers in-flight.
EG901 is just the code BA gives to a disaplinary proceedure in there big book of proceedures and codes of practice, there are hundreds of EG... something or others to cover every different kind of situation.
The meeting names are just different groups that discuss different issues and if agreement does not happen it all gets passed up to the NSP meetings. These meetings are all being reduced and also the number of reps attending them, from what was there before, and the names are of no consequence really and are just name BA have deecided to call each meeting type.. ie Fleet probably discusse rostering and allowances, transfers etc. and Business probably discusses product and services on board etc.
Last edited by Betty girl; 18th May 2011 at 09:43.
Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult
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As I understand it some of these focus group meetings have already started or are soon to start at LGW. Membership is not soley the right of union reps but members are being drawn from willing volunteers.
This is the way it should be, with union involvement only if changes need to be agreed
This is the way it should be, with union involvement only if changes need to be agreed
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West lake,
Yes focus groups are taking place and this is new but not really to do with the strikes.
I am involved in the Product group and these groups have been set up to try and get problems on board resolved quicker and are totally different and separate to what the unions discuss with the company in their meetings.
They are good and BA is setting them up with regard to lots of different subjects ie. there are ones on product and safety and their are also groups in other departments, pilots now have these focus groups and Aircraft turnaround managers and ground staff etc. are having them too..
Yes focus groups are taking place and this is new but not really to do with the strikes.
I am involved in the Product group and these groups have been set up to try and get problems on board resolved quicker and are totally different and separate to what the unions discuss with the company in their meetings.
They are good and BA is setting them up with regard to lots of different subjects ie. there are ones on product and safety and their are also groups in other departments, pilots now have these focus groups and Aircraft turnaround managers and ground staff etc. are having them too..
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This is why I needed to compile a glossary
I am thinking about purse-strings._ Representatives receive money from two sources._ To quote from the Settlement
The wording is ambiguous but I interpret it as meaning that the non-basic pay comes from the purse of the parent Union._ If this speculative interpretation of mine is correct, it may well be that in the future the finances and accounts of the three NSPs (Heathrow-Heritage, Heathrow-MF, Gatwick) will be dealt with by a full-time employee of the parent Union (Unite the Union).
The difficulty that BASSA have is not that there is an elephant in the living room - but it is the cupboard door that cannot be closed because of this enormous skeleton (probably an elephant).
Trade Union Representative Pay
Meetings with BA, including staff representation eg, NSP, BRG, FRG, EG901 etc.
Basic pay will be paid BA.
Meetings with BA, including staff representation eg, NSP, BRG, FRG, EG901 etc.
Basic pay will be paid BA.
The difficulty that BASSA have is not that there is an elephant in the living room - but it is the cupboard door that cannot be closed because of this enormous skeleton (probably an elephant).
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Not langley.
I think previously reps might have been able to get their basic pay when not on BA work. ie attending union meetings that were not to do with BA and now this is not allowed.
I expect that the union pay a daily rate to the reps to compensate them for loss of flying pay. ie. allowances etc. that they would get if they were flying. BA does pay this to trainers and crew working in selection but obviously expect unite to pay this to the reps.
I think you are reading too much into everything.
I think previously reps might have been able to get their basic pay when not on BA work. ie attending union meetings that were not to do with BA and now this is not allowed.
I expect that the union pay a daily rate to the reps to compensate them for loss of flying pay. ie. allowances etc. that they would get if they were flying. BA does pay this to trainers and crew working in selection but obviously expect unite to pay this to the reps.
I think you are reading too much into everything.
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I would like to thank flapsforty and TightSlot for all their hard work in moderating this, and the other thread. It can't have been easy at times, and your patience and understanding are very much appreciated.
There are a lot of bridges to be built to restore the working relationships to the excellent level that I remember. There is nothing more to be gained from dragging up old arguments and resentments.
Might I suggest that we follow the example on the CC thread and introduce a voluntary posting ban for a while?
Dave
There are a lot of bridges to be built to restore the working relationships to the excellent level that I remember. There is nothing more to be gained from dragging up old arguments and resentments.
Might I suggest that we follow the example on the CC thread and introduce a voluntary posting ban for a while?
Dave
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Mr pony- I quite agree. There is a lot to be sorted out yet. I would like it to stay open for a bit longer but as ever it's the Mods call
I too would like to add my thanks to the Mods for all the work they do, but especially on this thread. Can't have been easy with all the different personalities involved. Well done
I too would like to add my thanks to the Mods for all the work they do, but especially on this thread. Can't have been easy with all the different personalities involved. Well done
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I second the vote of thanks to the mods on both this and other thread(s) surrounding the BA dispute. However if they think that closing the thread will end the discussion, I am afraid they will have another think coming..
It is waaaaaaay from sorted yet, indeed I understand that there are a number of posters on the BASSA forum who intend to canvas for a refusal to accept the deal. Quite where that will leave union members is anyone's guess. One thing is for certain, the fat lady is still in the dressing room, not even warming up to sing yet.
In one forum or another, the debate still has some time to run.
It is waaaaaaay from sorted yet, indeed I understand that there are a number of posters on the BASSA forum who intend to canvas for a refusal to accept the deal. Quite where that will leave union members is anyone's guess. One thing is for certain, the fat lady is still in the dressing room, not even warming up to sing yet.
In one forum or another, the debate still has some time to run.
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If you are a shop steward, or equivalent trade union official, of a trade union that is recognised and independent, you are entitled to reasonable paid time off to:
- carry out your duties as an official
- receive training relevant to carrying out those duties
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Recent experience
Changing the conversation a bit, I noted somewhere in the murky past of posts that there were numerous comments regarding whether inflight service was/is better under WW crews or the new MF crews. I also read that PHX was changing to MF but not when.
Although airline staff, I pay full J class fares as published on BA.com so that when things go wrong, I can have a say in things (or so you would think). Having travelled outbound in early April, the lounge was packed with nowhere to sit and as usual, the crap served up as food was Chilli, Tikka Marsala or the poor salad bar. As someone who cannot tolerate spices, this is a problem for me. On board, the service was excellent but the food even worse including Tika Marsala again and Coronation Chicken sandwich for tea. Is BA not proud of its British Heritage and food? I therefore went to the Club Kitchen only to find nothing there as WT+ had raided it being unsupervised by the crew.
On the inbound flight this weekend, the food was excellent including salmon starter and Beef rib. The crew however were the worst I have ever come across. Sullen, lazy, rude and refused to have any eye contact at all. The second the trays were cleared, they were gone to be seen again at breakfast time. As we got to the train from B pier to the terminal, (and we were quick off the plane) at least two crew were on the same transit.
If the return crew were MF then BA has a problem with it's direction if this is any indication. If they were WW crew, then the sooner the route changes the better.
Having been stranded in the USA last June by BA when the PHX-LHR flight was canx due CC strike and given no assistance - just offered a flight 8 days later, this trip was a final try of BA. Unfortunately, BA failed due to inconsistency so they will lose four Gold/silver card holders as we have another UK airline that flies to that area of the USA who will benefit and hopefully appreciate our business.
Although airline staff, I pay full J class fares as published on BA.com so that when things go wrong, I can have a say in things (or so you would think). Having travelled outbound in early April, the lounge was packed with nowhere to sit and as usual, the crap served up as food was Chilli, Tikka Marsala or the poor salad bar. As someone who cannot tolerate spices, this is a problem for me. On board, the service was excellent but the food even worse including Tika Marsala again and Coronation Chicken sandwich for tea. Is BA not proud of its British Heritage and food? I therefore went to the Club Kitchen only to find nothing there as WT+ had raided it being unsupervised by the crew.
On the inbound flight this weekend, the food was excellent including salmon starter and Beef rib. The crew however were the worst I have ever come across. Sullen, lazy, rude and refused to have any eye contact at all. The second the trays were cleared, they were gone to be seen again at breakfast time. As we got to the train from B pier to the terminal, (and we were quick off the plane) at least two crew were on the same transit.
If the return crew were MF then BA has a problem with it's direction if this is any indication. If they were WW crew, then the sooner the route changes the better.
Having been stranded in the USA last June by BA when the PHX-LHR flight was canx due CC strike and given no assistance - just offered a flight 8 days later, this trip was a final try of BA. Unfortunately, BA failed due to inconsistency so they will lose four Gold/silver card holders as we have another UK airline that flies to that area of the USA who will benefit and hopefully appreciate our business.
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PHX does not move to Mixed Fleet until August. Crew visibility between meal services has been a long standing issue in all cabins on BA long haul and seems to be something BA cannot get a grip of and shows a lack of effective leadership/management by onboard CSDs and Pursers. Some crew seem to think their work is done once the first meal is out of the way.
At least food shows signs of improving,
At least food shows signs of improving,
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We'll leave this open for a while, but if it becomes apparent that in fact, nothing at all is happening except for endlessly re-fighting the last battle, then we'll close it - For now, you can continue (if you must)
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From the settlement document
There will be simultaneous relationships between BA and it’s cabin crew, Unite and it’s members and BA and Unite.
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I imagine the relationship are just words at the moment. A recognition agreement will have to be drawn up and agreed, but I was under the impression that either party can serve notice on the existing agreements, but the parties are Unite and BA.
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Tightslot
Thanks for keeping this thread open. However I suspect unless something dramatic emerges from the small print, nothing much will happen other than clarification of certain points of the agreement until it is put to the vote. Perhaps we should start a new thread either here or in it's proper place the CC forum, with the title "The agreement" to examine the minutiae of said document.
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Thank you Litebulbs for pointing out that the parties are Unite and BA._There is another document which is the 11 May 2011 "Briefing notes" issued jointly by Unite and BA._ And this contains the words that I was failing to find in the Settlement document
From the implementation of this agreement there will be a single cabin crew Unite branch at Heathrow.
A new single Unite branch and NSP will also be established for Gatwick to give it the autonomy to focus on its own future.
A new single Unite branch and NSP will also be established for Gatwick to give it the autonomy to focus on its own future.