Liability to pax ref Cork crash
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Liability to pax ref Cork crash
Airline accused of denying crash liability - National News, Frontpage - Independent.ie
From my limited knowledge it would appear as if the lawyer is blustering but I would appreciate any more informed opinions.
From my limited knowledge it would appear as if the lawyer is blustering but I would appreciate any more informed opinions.
BBC news report
Manx2 are passing legal liability for compensation to Flightline
BBC News - Manx2 in legal dispute over Cork plane crash payout
Manx2 in legal dispute over Cork plane crash payout
Manx 2's solicitors said the airline was not responsible for such claims.
In a letter to Stewarts Law, Appleby Solicitors for Manx2 said the airline had acted as "ticket provider or booking office" and that according to the terms and conditions of Mr Dickens' ticket purchase the carrier was Flightline BCN and his contract was with them.
BBC News - Manx2 in legal dispute over Cork plane crash payout
Manx2 in legal dispute over Cork plane crash payout
Manx 2's solicitors said the airline was not responsible for such claims.
In a letter to Stewarts Law, Appleby Solicitors for Manx2 said the airline had acted as "ticket provider or booking office" and that according to the terms and conditions of Mr Dickens' ticket purchase the carrier was Flightline BCN and his contract was with them.
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One thing is the operator and other the carrier, Manx2 doesn´t want to pay pax but they are not just a travel agency, they wet leased the aircraft as they do to other companies, and they claim not to be responsible? of course they are.
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Who are Flightline BCN?
Who are Flightline BCN? Anything to do with Flightline (ex of Southend, Essex)? I did notice the callsign of the accident aircraft was the "old" Flightline code "FLT".
Thanks.
Thanks.
Manx 2's solicitors said the airline was not responsible for such claims.
In a letter to Stewarts Law, Appleby Solicitors for Manx2 said the airline had acted as "ticket provider or booking office" and that according to the terms and conditions of Mr Dickens' ticket purchase the carrier was Flightline BCN and his contract was with them.
In a letter to Stewarts Law, Appleby Solicitors for Manx2 said the airline had acted as "ticket provider or booking office" and that according to the terms and conditions of Mr Dickens' ticket purchase the carrier was Flightline BCN and his contract was with them.
This sort of "now we're an airline, now we're not" approach does the operator and the industry no credit.
One lesson which needs to be learned very promptly here from the experiences of the US majors and their various contracted commuter carriers, operating with their own AOC (as here), but operating at the behest and with a public image of the main organisation (as here) is that, while insurance, legal and aviation technicalities may indeed belong with the physical aircraft operator, the main company will front it all, pass the relevant items backwards and forwards to the right people, handle the press and the relatives appropriately, and such like - and most certainly not start sending forthright solicitors letters that end up in the media.
Lear 60 and WHBM.
In fairness it is a fundamental principle of being an insured party that one must act as if one is not insured.
So if M2 or FL said 'our fault' their insurers would be free to hang them out to dry. Each party will have had their lawyers toing and froing within minutes of the accident.
One thing is the operator and other the carrier, Manx2 doesn´t want to pay pax but they are not just a travel agency, they wet leased the aircraft as they do to other companies, and they claim not to be responsible? of course they are.
So if M2 or FL said 'our fault' their insurers would be free to hang them out to dry. Each party will have had their lawyers toing and froing within minutes of the accident.
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In fairness it is a fundamental principle of being an insured party that one must act as if one is not insured.
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I think that few who travelled that day would appreciate this legal nuance, and it remains to be seen if the courts take a similar view.
This sort of "now we're an airline, now we're not" approach does the operator and the industry no credit.
One lesson which needs to be learned very promptly here from the experiences of the US majors and their various contracted commuter carriers, operating with their own AOC (as here), but operating at the behest and with a public image of the main organisation (as here) is that, while insurance, legal and aviation technicalities may indeed belong with the physical aircraft operator, the main company will front it all, pass the relevant items backwards and forwards to the right people, handle the press and the relatives appropriately, and such like - and most certainly not start sending forthright solicitors letters that end up in the media.
This sort of "now we're an airline, now we're not" approach does the operator and the industry no credit.
One lesson which needs to be learned very promptly here from the experiences of the US majors and their various contracted commuter carriers, operating with their own AOC (as here), but operating at the behest and with a public image of the main organisation (as here) is that, while insurance, legal and aviation technicalities may indeed belong with the physical aircraft operator, the main company will front it all, pass the relevant items backwards and forwards to the right people, handle the press and the relatives appropriately, and such like - and most certainly not start sending forthright solicitors letters that end up in the media.
General
Manx2 Ltd. is providing your tickets for this flight booking. We proudly claim to offer great service at competitive prices, and we are constantly looking at ways in which we can improve our service.On behalf of Manx2, Van Air Europe As will be the main operator for flights from the Isle of Man to Blackpool, Belfast City, Galway, Newcastle and Leeds; also between Belfast City & Galway, and Galway to Cork. FLM Aviation will be the main operator for flights from the Isle of Man to Gloucestershire Airport and Cardiff to Anglesey. Links Aviation will be the main operator for flights from Belfast City to Cork. Please see our terms and conditions for full details or enquire at check in.
...
We trust you will enjoy your flight and we would be pleased to hear your comments at our Customer Services address below.
Definitions
As you read these Terms and Conditions, please note that:
"We", "our", "ourselves" and "us means VanAir Europe AS (see also definition of "Carrier") or FLM Aviation.;
...
Manx2 Ltd. is providing your tickets for this flight booking. We proudly claim to offer great service at competitive prices, and we are constantly looking at ways in which we can improve our service.On behalf of Manx2, Van Air Europe As will be the main operator for flights from the Isle of Man to Blackpool, Belfast City, Galway, Newcastle and Leeds; also between Belfast City & Galway, and Galway to Cork. FLM Aviation will be the main operator for flights from the Isle of Man to Gloucestershire Airport and Cardiff to Anglesey. Links Aviation will be the main operator for flights from Belfast City to Cork. Please see our terms and conditions for full details or enquire at check in.
...
We trust you will enjoy your flight and we would be pleased to hear your comments at our Customer Services address below.
Definitions
As you read these Terms and Conditions, please note that:
"We", "our", "ourselves" and "us means VanAir Europe AS (see also definition of "Carrier") or FLM Aviation.;
...
Follow-up question for any lawyers out there: what does it do to the nature of the contract if the identity of the counterparty is undefined?
Stop wasting bandwidth. ..... All that you need to know is that, by law, somebody is insured, and that the victims will receive some sort of 'financial' compensation. Pp is about the accident itself. For the benefit of aviation knowledge, not law.
Oh, and BTW, and at the risk of repeating myself:
Stop wasting bandwidth.....All that you need to know is
Last edited by wiggy; 17th Feb 2011 at 23:31.
Psychophysiological entity
For the benefit of aviation knowledge, not law.
If a person or persons sell tickets to the public without proper insurance being in place, we, the interested parties on PpruNe, want to know about it.
Psychophysiological entity
I've never checked the insurance on any of my flights at a major airline in the USA.
I did however, discover an out of date insurance certificate while I was with two reputable UK airlines. If I'd taken one of those flights and been jumped, I would have been prosecuted.
I have to say I'm not entirely sure what part of the on-board cover pertains to ticketed passengers. It certainly covered them in some aspects, but there may have been further cover within the ticketing.
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our contract had a nice clause about indemnification, as long as we were ''dispatched'' we didn't have a problem with BS like insurance etc.
sure, we had to try and fly safe...and I didn't ONCE try to go under the golden gate bridge!
sure, we had to try and fly safe...and I didn't ONCE try to go under the golden gate bridge!
PPRuNe Handmaiden
Part of our document check is to ensure the insurance certificate which we carry a copy of on board is in date.
(EU bizjet carrier)
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Stop wasting bandwidth. We will never see the inter party contracts, and don't need to. All that you need to know is that, by law, somebody is insured, and that the victims will receive some sort of 'financial' compensation. Pp is about the accident itself. For the benefit of aviation knowledge, not law.
I'm not asking about interparty contracts though, just looking for an answer to a simple question: if I book Belfast-Cork today, who's my contract with? Manx2, VanAir, FLM or LinksAir? As a passenger, it's not clear to me (nor, it would appear, to at least one law firm).
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if I book Belfast-Cork today, who's my contract with? Manx2, VanAir, FLM or LinksAir?