minimum transit times USA
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minimum transit times USA
I want to go to Orlando next April (Easter) with the family (7 of us) and the flight we would like to take only allows 1h 25m at Detroit to change aircraft.The flight is for sale but my travel agent says 1H 25m is not enough time to clear immigration and customs and make the next flight.Anyone have experience of Detroit and is she correct in her advice??
Appreciate a response..
Appreciate a response..
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Possibly......
I regularly transit through the US.
I can be through immigration, collected bags, through customs, rechecked bags and back through security within 30min (recent time at Newark).
BUT it has also taken me 3hours
And a friend took over 5 hours once the immigration person decided to be "real polite" with her.
I would say that you should allow 2-3 hours minimum. Your call, but it's too tight for me.
What you can do is book on the later one, and if you get through everything quickly, then before you re-check everything, ask if they can move you onto the earlier plane. If it is not full, and the later plane is full (or evening commuter flight), then they will do it for free normally as it gives them more seats to sell later.
I can be through immigration, collected bags, through customs, rechecked bags and back through security within 30min (recent time at Newark).
BUT it has also taken me 3hours
And a friend took over 5 hours once the immigration person decided to be "real polite" with her.
I would say that you should allow 2-3 hours minimum. Your call, but it's too tight for me.
What you can do is book on the later one, and if you get through everything quickly, then before you re-check everything, ask if they can move you onto the earlier plane. If it is not full, and the later plane is full (or evening commuter flight), then they will do it for free normally as it gives them more seats to sell later.
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Fully agree with SwissRef, last Saturday LHR-JFK-SJU i was at my new boarding gate approx 40 minutes after landing in JFK. This isnt always the case though i have also has times when it has taken 2+ hours and i have missed my onward connection.
As a side note, JFK was probably the quietest i have ever seen it in the AA terminal last Saturday.
As a side note, JFK was probably the quietest i have ever seen it in the AA terminal last Saturday.
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Agree with SwissRef's strategy. Going to Orlando via Detroit likely means you are on Delta/Northwest. This airline has about 6 nonstop flights per day between those points (and many more that would connect through Atlanta). While you would probably make the 1:25 connection, consider the consequences if you do not. Biggest concern would be the loads on the later flights if you missed your booked connection -- especially if it is close to Easter and have 7 passengers to be reaccommodated.
Note, too, that if your family is like mine, there is always someone who needs to stop at the restroom or look in at a gift shop when traversing an airline terminal. Unless you are very vicious in herding them, they will not move as fast as a single person might in running between flights.
Now if you are connecting in Detroit to a different airline (e.g., AirTran or Spirit) for your flight to Orlando, be much more cautious about any close connection. They have fewer frequencies, and if you are not booked on a single ticket, you might not be reaccommodated at all.
Note, too, that if your family is like mine, there is always someone who needs to stop at the restroom or look in at a gift shop when traversing an airline terminal. Unless you are very vicious in herding them, they will not move as fast as a single person might in running between flights.
Now if you are connecting in Detroit to a different airline (e.g., AirTran or Spirit) for your flight to Orlando, be much more cautious about any close connection. They have fewer frequencies, and if you are not booked on a single ticket, you might not be reaccommodated at all.
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Thanks guys, i will take the advice and go via Atlanta. I thought perhaps Detroit might be quick because of limited International traffic but no point in tempting fate.......
A warning about Atlanta
Actually, I suspect there are several warnings about Atlanta given how big the place is. However, this is specific to international arrivals.
Atlanta has a landside terminal and then a series of subsidary terminals linked together by an underground train. International arrivals use the terminal furthest away from the landside terminal. You arrive, get off your plane, go through immigration, pick up your bags, go through customs. So far so normal.
However, to get anywhere else you then have to get on the underground. It doesn't matter if you're catching another plane or trying to get into Atlanta you take the train. Now, the train is the same train that passengers coming from landside to the planes use. So, they go through security before boarding the train AND SO DO YOU.
OK, so you bought some duty free booze or perfume in London, or on the plane. You have to do something with it because it exceeds the amount of liquid you're allowed to take through security. Either you drink/use it NOW or you put it into your bag or you sacrifice it to security. If you're going into Atlanta you put the bottle in your checked bag which you then put on a conveyor which takes it to the landside terminal so you can pick it up (again) there and the risk of the bottle smashing on that ride is limited. If you're going on another flight you put the bottle in your checked baggage, give it back to the airline and hope that their baggage handlers at Atlanta and Orlando don't give your bag a rough ride.
Me, I wouldn't buy anything en route......
Atlanta has a landside terminal and then a series of subsidary terminals linked together by an underground train. International arrivals use the terminal furthest away from the landside terminal. You arrive, get off your plane, go through immigration, pick up your bags, go through customs. So far so normal.
However, to get anywhere else you then have to get on the underground. It doesn't matter if you're catching another plane or trying to get into Atlanta you take the train. Now, the train is the same train that passengers coming from landside to the planes use. So, they go through security before boarding the train AND SO DO YOU.
OK, so you bought some duty free booze or perfume in London, or on the plane. You have to do something with it because it exceeds the amount of liquid you're allowed to take through security. Either you drink/use it NOW or you put it into your bag or you sacrifice it to security. If you're going into Atlanta you put the bottle in your checked bag which you then put on a conveyor which takes it to the landside terminal so you can pick it up (again) there and the risk of the bottle smashing on that ride is limited. If you're going on another flight you put the bottle in your checked baggage, give it back to the airline and hope that their baggage handlers at Atlanta and Orlando don't give your bag a rough ride.
Me, I wouldn't buy anything en route......
Too mean to buy a long personal title
Atlanta has a landside terminal and then a series of subsidary terminals linked together by an underground train. International arrivals use the terminal furthest away from the landside terminal. You arrive, get off your plane, go through immigration, pick up your bags, go through customs. So far so normal.
However, to get anywhere else you then have to get on the underground. It doesn't matter if you're catching another plane or trying to get into Atlanta you take the train. Now, the train is the same train that passengers coming from landside to the planes use. So, they go through security before boarding the train AND SO DO YOU.
However, to get anywhere else you then have to get on the underground. It doesn't matter if you're catching another plane or trying to get into Atlanta you take the train. Now, the train is the same train that passengers coming from landside to the planes use. So, they go through security before boarding the train AND SO DO YOU.
And then after you have handed your checked bags back, you must clear security. This happens at every US connecting point. It is not specific to Atlanta. If you've had access to your checked baggage, you are by definition no longer secure and you must be security screened again.
That said, some of my worst US immigration experiences have been at Atlanta. I think that the OP may have misinterpreted something said by SeenItAll as positive advice that he should connect at Atlanta. I don't think that's what SeenItAll meant.
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Definitely avoid Atlanta. In addition to the to-ing and fro-ing on the train, the ICE and TSA staff there are reputedly some of the most surly in the country.
(The only thing in its favour are airside smoking lounges
)
KLM gives a minimum Detroit connection time Int-Dom of 1hr 15m (cf. Atlanta 1hr 20m) and as noted above, if it's a single itinerary - no airline change - they'll rebook you FOC if your inbound is delayed.
(The only thing in its favour are airside smoking lounges
)KLM gives a minimum Detroit connection time Int-Dom of 1hr 15m (cf. Atlanta 1hr 20m) and as noted above, if it's a single itinerary - no airline change - they'll rebook you FOC if your inbound is delayed.
Other connecting points
Globaliser, I think I didn't make myself clear. I agree that if you're connecting to a point in the USA you have to go through check-in, security etc again the critical point about Atlanta (and one or two other airports in the USA) is that it doesn't matter whether you are connecting or simply going to landside you have to go through security.
If you consider Chicago as an example of an alternative you go through immigration etc and, yes, as you exit customs you can re check your bags immediately if you choose to but at that point you are landside. If you chose to you can simply wander off into the USA you don't HAVE to get on another piece of equipment to do so. Yes, you then have to get transit from the international terminal to one of the domestic buildings but to do that you don't have to go through security - that happens in the domestic building. In Atlanta, as you exit customs your next step HAS to be security, no exceptions.
If you consider Chicago as an example of an alternative you go through immigration etc and, yes, as you exit customs you can re check your bags immediately if you choose to but at that point you are landside. If you chose to you can simply wander off into the USA you don't HAVE to get on another piece of equipment to do so. Yes, you then have to get transit from the international terminal to one of the domestic buildings but to do that you don't have to go through security - that happens in the domestic building. In Atlanta, as you exit customs your next step HAS to be security, no exceptions.
Going back to the original question
You know what, I don't think I'd go via anywhere in the USA. 7 people, as others have said, is a lot of herding around. It will probably cost more and you may even need to travel to the airport the day before but I'd get to London and fly non-stop. Whatever the relative merits of BA and VS I suspect most people here would agree they are much better airlines than any of the US carriers and the hassle factor associated with changing at Detroit or Atlanta is eliminated.
I live in Somerset and went to Seattle this summer. I could have gone from Bristol via Newark on Continental but I went non stop on BA. Saved about 6 hours airport to airport, cost me more for the fare and because I went up the night before but it was a breeze (or as much of a breeze as any flying is these days).
I live in Somerset and went to Seattle this summer. I could have gone from Bristol via Newark on Continental but I went non stop on BA. Saved about 6 hours airport to airport, cost me more for the fare and because I went up the night before but it was a breeze (or as much of a breeze as any flying is these days).
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Originally Posted by RT
instead of flying to the middle of the continent or Atlanta - FLY DIRECT!
Not everbody is flush
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It is £1400 more expensive for us all to fly direct and seeing as the old man is giving the family a special holiday treat and picking up the tab he is opting for the cheapest way!!!
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It is possible to connect in Detroit in the 1h25m that the schedule allows you, (been there, done that) but as others pointed out, certainly not guaranteed. You're unlikely to have time for shopping or food, even if things go smooth on the day.
I'ld check how many later flights there are that day to get rebooked on, if you were to miss the connection. (Two to three hours on entry to the US gives you a good chance to make it; but no guarantee with all of the DHS
that's around.)
I'ld check how many later flights there are that day to get rebooked on, if you were to miss the connection. (Two to three hours on entry to the US gives you a good chance to make it; but no guarantee with all of the DHS
that's around.)
Last edited by MathFox; 16th Oct 2010 at 22:17. Reason: been there
Cripes, you can lose half an hour before you even leave the UK in the blink of an eye: ATC slot/baggage offload/etc etc....so then you're sat there chewing finger nails ( baggersup's point) then you've got the unforecast headwinds, followed by the queue at immigration ( and there's 7 of you to herd through).
In an ideal world you might just make it but I'd never plan a 1 hour 25 min transit anywhere - me thinks your travel agent is very sensible - but it's down to you - do you feel lucky
In an ideal world you might just make it but I'd never plan a 1 hour 25 min transit anywhere - me thinks your travel agent is very sensible - but it's down to you - do you feel lucky
GBP1400 is a lot.
That's GBP200 per person and I don't believe what I'm about to say will eat up all of that GBP1400.
The US carriers don't give certain things for free any more. Meals for one thing - if you want food you pay extra for it. They also charge for baggage. Now, I think that because you are an international passenger you'll get 1 bag per person free for the whole journey and free meals on the transatlantic flights (but check). But you will have to pay for meals on the domestics (if you want them) and if you check more than 7 bags you will pay for the extras. Are you going to want a drink on board? Do Delta charge for drinks? Do you want to watch a movie? Do Delta give you the headset free? Do Delta charge to provide a blanket and pillow (I kid you not) if you want one? Check what other extras you might have to pay for if you go via Detroit or Atlanta, add something for coffee and doughnuts at the change over point and then add that to the cheaper fare.
Now factor in the intangible which is the uncertainty and hassle associated with changing planes and just consider how much you might have to pay for an hotel should you need to spend a night en route. Personally I'd also factor in the (lack of) service on DL compared with BA and VS.
Then consider the consumer protection that is EUR-Lex - 32004R0261 - EN.
Finally there's the elephant in the room; safety. I'm going to get roasted by some people for this but landing and takeoff are the most dangerous phases of flight. I like flying; I consider flying to be extremely safe; I have flown Delta with confidence. But, I do think about how many take offs and landings I'm going to have to make when I'm booking and I do my best to minimise them and I'm prepared to pay to do that.
Like I said, I doubt any of that adds up to GBP1400 but I believe the *real* difference is quite a lot less than GBP1400.
The US carriers don't give certain things for free any more. Meals for one thing - if you want food you pay extra for it. They also charge for baggage. Now, I think that because you are an international passenger you'll get 1 bag per person free for the whole journey and free meals on the transatlantic flights (but check). But you will have to pay for meals on the domestics (if you want them) and if you check more than 7 bags you will pay for the extras. Are you going to want a drink on board? Do Delta charge for drinks? Do you want to watch a movie? Do Delta give you the headset free? Do Delta charge to provide a blanket and pillow (I kid you not) if you want one? Check what other extras you might have to pay for if you go via Detroit or Atlanta, add something for coffee and doughnuts at the change over point and then add that to the cheaper fare.
Now factor in the intangible which is the uncertainty and hassle associated with changing planes and just consider how much you might have to pay for an hotel should you need to spend a night en route. Personally I'd also factor in the (lack of) service on DL compared with BA and VS.
Then consider the consumer protection that is EUR-Lex - 32004R0261 - EN.
Finally there's the elephant in the room; safety. I'm going to get roasted by some people for this but landing and takeoff are the most dangerous phases of flight. I like flying; I consider flying to be extremely safe; I have flown Delta with confidence. But, I do think about how many take offs and landings I'm going to have to make when I'm booking and I do my best to minimise them and I'm prepared to pay to do that.
Like I said, I doubt any of that adds up to GBP1400 but I believe the *real* difference is quite a lot less than GBP1400.
Está servira para distraerle.
You say that you intend this little venture into the impossible in April next year at Easter? Perhaps even over the Easter weekend? Further feasibility discussion seems a little pointless.
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We are actually flying the week before Easter, under normal circumstances Mrs 1DC and i would never fly anywhere during the holiday season but on this occasion are governed by kids holidays. i prefer to arrive in Orlando via the domestic terminal which is why i am happy to change aircraft somewhere else in the U.S., preferably where their is little international traffic.£200 per head extra for a direct flight is correct, as far as i can see..
Está servira para distraerle.
The domestic arrival commends itself. I think that with Easter so late next year most US state schools will only close over the actual Easter weekend. Normal state school holidays will probably apply and that's usually a week or ten days over end March/early April, as I remember. But just think of all those religious people going on pilgrimages at the carousels and check in and all their divine ways of wasting time on their slow road to salvation. Good luck, it'll be an achievement if you make it. With a flock of seven you'll have been a real Good Shepherd.
