Thomson 767 hard-landing at BRS creases fuselage
RB311,
I think the aircraft you are describing was bought later by Dan-Air registered as G-AZED. It was well known not to land quite right! 
Back to the topic if the aircraft referred to by the OP was landing on 09 in recent weather i can only commiserate. That runway is a great leveller especially in a large aircraft.
By all accounts it turned out to be (in it's second life) one of the best flying examples (re) built!!
Back to the topic if the aircraft referred to by the OP was landing on 09 in recent weather i can only commiserate. That runway is a great leveller especially in a large aircraft.
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Yep,
If you are a fairly frequent traveller, than you will have already flown on many repaired aircraft without even knowing it in the same way you will have travelled on a bus, or boat which has at some point been damaged. The passengers should be at ease knowing that the professional drivers, sailors and pilots feel safe and happy enough to operate the repaired equipment without concern for their own saftey and of course the safety of their many passengers and crew.
If your confidence in the crews, engineers and authorities is that low, then I suggest you find another means of transportation.
If you are a fairly frequent traveller, than you will have already flown on many repaired aircraft without even knowing it in the same way you will have travelled on a bus, or boat which has at some point been damaged. The passengers should be at ease knowing that the professional drivers, sailors and pilots feel safe and happy enough to operate the repaired equipment without concern for their own saftey and of course the safety of their many passengers and crew.
If your confidence in the crews, engineers and authorities is that low, then I suggest you find another means of transportation.
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I think there could well be a confidence issue being raised here, after all the aircraft has been bent because something went wrong. I've no idea how close this was to a write off, so at the moment, my confidence is entitled to be low.
Cheers
Jont
Cheers
Jont
Last edited by jont; 8th Oct 2010 at 22:29.
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.......all of those if you wish. Bottom line - if I'm on board, I expect the highest of airmanship skills from the sharp end, at all times. I've said this before, if the aircraft was troubled, then this was a good result. If not, then I have the right to worry. Lets wait for the report.
Cheers
Jont
Cheers
Jont
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G-OOBK was previously involved in a hard landing incident at Ho Chi Minh City on Sep 19th 2000 resulting in what would appear to be similar damage to the same area. It was properly repaired, and given the fact that it has safely flown many thousands of hours since then, this would surely be of some reassurance to the OP.
It is probably unwise to become excessively interested in the maintenance and incident history of the aircraft on which you will fly in the future - I'd suggest that this is a potential pathway to madness!
After flying as crew for what is beginning to get dangerously close to 35 years (some of them with the technically outstanding airline company in question) I find it easiest not to ask such questions. I simply assume that our engineers provide their usual excellent maintenance standards, and that our flight crew act in a similar fashion. I have not yet been disappointed.
It's up to you, of course: Should you wish to be concerned, or monitor such incidents, please be our guest - I simply can't see that it will change your flying experience for the better.
Not trying to be unpleasant at all - simply trying to help.
It is probably unwise to become excessively interested in the maintenance and incident history of the aircraft on which you will fly in the future - I'd suggest that this is a potential pathway to madness!
After flying as crew for what is beginning to get dangerously close to 35 years (some of them with the technically outstanding airline company in question) I find it easiest not to ask such questions. I simply assume that our engineers provide their usual excellent maintenance standards, and that our flight crew act in a similar fashion. I have not yet been disappointed.
It's up to you, of course: Should you wish to be concerned, or monitor such incidents, please be our guest - I simply can't see that it will change your flying experience for the better.
Not trying to be unpleasant at all - simply trying to help.
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Jont....
it should also be born in mind, the repair 10 years ago to this airframe was not actually undertaken by any airline operator, it was completed by the AOG team of the manufacturer of the airframe, which is likely to be the same position today.
repair cost wise, it's only likely to be about 20% of the insured value of the aircraft.....generally an aircraft becomes a "total loss" or "constructive total loss" when the repair cost is likely to exceed 60% of the hull value.
So there will be other aircraft out there which have suffered considerably more damage (ask Qantas) and are happily back in revenue service.
it should also be born in mind, the repair 10 years ago to this airframe was not actually undertaken by any airline operator, it was completed by the AOG team of the manufacturer of the airframe, which is likely to be the same position today.
repair cost wise, it's only likely to be about 20% of the insured value of the aircraft.....generally an aircraft becomes a "total loss" or "constructive total loss" when the repair cost is likely to exceed 60% of the hull value.
So there will be other aircraft out there which have suffered considerably more damage (ask Qantas) and are happily back in revenue service.
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There's also a related thread somwhere about a RAM B763 with the same problem. Planes are the same as any other machine. If you damage it, as in the case of the RAM a/c, you fit a new panel, new frames or whatever and it is as good as new. In that case it was a Boeing repair project, carried out by Delta who had the local facilities. What's the problem?
If you marked each aircraft down for a past incident they'd be none left to fly on. There are many, many incidents like this each year and the repairs are professionally carried out by skilled engineers. The evidence just doesn't support the fact that aircraft are falling out of the sky due to previous damage/repair problems.
Just my few pence worth. I'll carry on sleeping in business class thanks and not worry about it.
If you marked each aircraft down for a past incident they'd be none left to fly on. There are many, many incidents like this each year and the repairs are professionally carried out by skilled engineers. The evidence just doesn't support the fact that aircraft are falling out of the sky due to previous damage/repair problems.
Just my few pence worth. I'll carry on sleeping in business class thanks and not worry about it.
I've seen some major repairs carried out in my time and some incredible engineering in order to do it. But they were all carried out in accordance with the manufacturer's structural repair manual requirements and quite often with the manufacturer's help. They end up as if they were new and sometimes stronger than new.
When an aircraft is correctly repaired, they do not take short cuts and they don't just make it cosmetically better. It's a complete job and the end product is just as good as the original and just as safe.
When an aircraft is correctly repaired, they do not take short cuts and they don't just make it cosmetically better. It's a complete job and the end product is just as good as the original and just as safe.
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Lotpax. Thank you.
My concerns are indeed around the root cause. I have indicated this throughtout my contributions. I'm not quite as relaxed about this incident as others seem to be. I'm of course stating the obvious by saying that this aeroplane should not have been bent in the first place. If the crew were wrestling with factors beyond their control, then this was indeed a happy outcome. If this was a result of poor flying skills, then I have airmanship confidence issues. We know that it has been bent before - so the lessons should not be about how best we repair, but more about, how best we prevent.
Cheers
Jont
My concerns are indeed around the root cause. I have indicated this throughtout my contributions. I'm not quite as relaxed about this incident as others seem to be. I'm of course stating the obvious by saying that this aeroplane should not have been bent in the first place. If the crew were wrestling with factors beyond their control, then this was indeed a happy outcome. If this was a result of poor flying skills, then I have airmanship confidence issues. We know that it has been bent before - so the lessons should not be about how best we repair, but more about, how best we prevent.
Cheers
Jont
Last edited by jont; 11th Oct 2010 at 17:38.
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Absurd. Nobody is "relaxed" about an incident such as this.
There will be an enquiry by the AAIB. The results will be published and in the public domain. You will be able to read them. You will them make a decision as to when and if you choose to fly with this airline in the future as a result. While you are waiting for the results of the investigation to be published you may while away the time by reading other AAIB reports about other incidents affecting this and other airlines and make similar decisions. Your 'confidence' will be raised or lowered accordingly.
The OP's original point was about the maintenance and repair of the aircraft: Discussions about whether or not your confidence in the 'flying skills' of the crew involved should be maintained are off-topic and pointless, as are hand-wringing proclamations about "how best we prevent".
Back on topic please
There will be an enquiry by the AAIB. The results will be published and in the public domain. You will be able to read them. You will them make a decision as to when and if you choose to fly with this airline in the future as a result. While you are waiting for the results of the investigation to be published you may while away the time by reading other AAIB reports about other incidents affecting this and other airlines and make similar decisions. Your 'confidence' will be raised or lowered accordingly.
The OP's original point was about the maintenance and repair of the aircraft: Discussions about whether or not your confidence in the 'flying skills' of the crew involved should be maintained are off-topic and pointless, as are hand-wringing proclamations about "how best we prevent".
Back on topic please
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Funny Old World
Well, I'm sitting outside my HKG hotel at midday having just woken up, paid a fortune for an espresso and fired up a marlboro light as consolation. This thread was waiting to perform the rest of the wake-up call.
I've deleted a number of posts that were off topic, but noted the comments. Thank you to those who chose to post in a balanced and reasonable way.
I am absolutely certain that my moderating style is less than perfect: However, it is what it is, which is the best that we're all going to get given that this is a part-time unpaid job, squeezed in between rostered flights. I don't propose to justify it further than that.
Let's all get back on topic please
It's Tequila time.
I've deleted a number of posts that were off topic, but noted the comments. Thank you to those who chose to post in a balanced and reasonable way.
I am absolutely certain that my moderating style is less than perfect: However, it is what it is, which is the best that we're all going to get given that this is a part-time unpaid job, squeezed in between rostered flights. I don't propose to justify it further than that.
Let's all get back on topic please
It's Tequila time.
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It appears the aircraft has now been repaired and will position from Bristol to London Gatwick today - The flight should depart at 1010z and arrive into Gatwick at approximately 1045z.
