Seperation of Arriving and Departing Passengers
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but because space it limited in most airports, it would be hard to implement a Domestic and EU process and a separate "other" international process.
Maybe I'm a little naive but this would seem to be quite easy and everything is already in place. i.e.
Scenario 1 - Plane arriving from a non-secure country. Docks at the gate, passenger disembark, walk up the jetway and take the current path to security, or immigration etc.
Scenario 2 - Plane arriving from a 'secure' country. Docks at the gate, passengers disembark. Any local passengers take the current path to immigration etc. Transit passengers just walk up the jetway into the boarding area and into the secure area, head for duty free and the lounges. If somebody got lost and took the wrong path - nothing compromised.
Swiss actually do this at ZRH with domestic connections flights coming from GVA.
The only thing needed is a very large sign in the jetway.
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Regarding Brussels Airport:
Brussels Airport has 1 terminal with 2 concourses A & B.
The A concourse is reserved for schengen-flights only => no immigration.
There is a central security screening before the shops at the end of the tunnel which leads from the terminal under the taxiway to the concourse.
Passengers departing and arriving from this concourse mix, there is only one level (gate area).
The B concourse is reserved for non-schengen flights only => immigration.
There is a central security screening after the shops at the beginning of the concourse and one in the middle of the concourse for transit passengers.
Passengers arriving from a flight are separated from departing passengers as they arrive on different levels. Arriving passengers in this concourse always have to pass a security screening before they are allowed in the departing area. They have however access to the shops as these are before security screening and these shops are located in the international transfer area (before clearing immigration).
In addition there are also T-gates used for Africa flights of brussels airlines . They are located at the end of the A-concourse with an exit immigration check. As the A-concourse doesn't has a separate level for arriving passengers this part of the concourse is only used for departing passengers and arriving passengers are transferred to the B concourse were they can clear immigration.
So to me the separation of arriving and departing passengers is used to have a uniform security screening as all the members of the schengen area (probably also the EU countries) have agreed on the same security screening standards making a additional screening unnecessary for these passengers.
In the USA this apply also. If you once passed a TSA security screening you won't have additional security screening, arriving passengers mix with departing passengers. Flights that has a non TSA security screening ( out USA) will separate arriving passengers and will rescreen passengers that have a connecting flight.
Apparently in AMS arriving passengers mix with departing passengers as the security screening is at the gate. So their is no need to separate them.
From the LH website about overhauling pier B : "the implementation of an EU regulation which stipulates that inbound passengers from countries outside the European Union must be separated from outbound passengers."
Lufthansa - Lufthansa at Frankfurt Airport
This seems to me that the EU wants to free passengers from EU inbound flight not to have an additional screening for connection flight.
Unless there is a mistake in that LH statement:
Brussels Airport has 1 terminal with 2 concourses A & B.
The A concourse is reserved for schengen-flights only => no immigration.
There is a central security screening before the shops at the end of the tunnel which leads from the terminal under the taxiway to the concourse.
Passengers departing and arriving from this concourse mix, there is only one level (gate area).
The B concourse is reserved for non-schengen flights only => immigration.
There is a central security screening after the shops at the beginning of the concourse and one in the middle of the concourse for transit passengers.
Passengers arriving from a flight are separated from departing passengers as they arrive on different levels. Arriving passengers in this concourse always have to pass a security screening before they are allowed in the departing area. They have however access to the shops as these are before security screening and these shops are located in the international transfer area (before clearing immigration).
In addition there are also T-gates used for Africa flights of brussels airlines . They are located at the end of the A-concourse with an exit immigration check. As the A-concourse doesn't has a separate level for arriving passengers this part of the concourse is only used for departing passengers and arriving passengers are transferred to the B concourse were they can clear immigration.
So to me the separation of arriving and departing passengers is used to have a uniform security screening as all the members of the schengen area (probably also the EU countries) have agreed on the same security screening standards making a additional screening unnecessary for these passengers.
In the USA this apply also. If you once passed a TSA security screening you won't have additional security screening, arriving passengers mix with departing passengers. Flights that has a non TSA security screening ( out USA) will separate arriving passengers and will rescreen passengers that have a connecting flight.
Apparently in AMS arriving passengers mix with departing passengers as the security screening is at the gate. So their is no need to separate them.
From the LH website about overhauling pier B : "the implementation of an EU regulation which stipulates that inbound passengers from countries outside the European Union must be separated from outbound passengers."
Lufthansa - Lufthansa at Frankfurt Airport
This seems to me that the EU wants to free passengers from EU inbound flight not to have an additional screening for connection flight.
Unless there is a mistake in that LH statement:
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Actually Amsterdam has two areas: the non-Schengen area where security checks are at the gates and a Schengen area where there is a security check on entry, either form departures or after passing immigration from the non-Schengen area. Arriving passengers are (generally) not checked.
Too mean to buy a long personal title
However I don't think this explains the non-mixing of passengers. Take T5 at Heathrow as an example. A passenger in transit through T5 is separated from departing passengers until such time as s/he has cleared security. S/he is then free to mingle with other departing passengers and has not cleared UK immigration.
However I think a passenger arriving at T5 off a domestic flight doesn't get security screened again.
It would seem that the UK doesn't trust other countries security (even though some are more rigid). It doesn't want to take the risk of some black-hats beating the system - although IMHO it would be very easy to separate only flights from countries with poor security, if there are any.
However I think a passenger arriving at T5 off a domestic flight doesn't get security screened again.
It would seem that the UK doesn't trust other countries security (even though some are more rigid). It doesn't want to take the risk of some black-hats beating the system - although IMHO it would be very easy to separate only flights from countries with poor security, if there are any.
Maybe I'm a little naive but this would seem to be quite easy and everything is already in place. i.e.
Scenario 1 - Plane arriving from a non-secure country. Docks at the gate, passenger disembark, walk up the jetway and take the current path to security, or immigration etc.
Scenario 2 - Plane arriving from a 'secure' country. Docks at the gate, passengers disembark. Any local passengers take the current path to immigration etc. Transit passengers just walk up the jetway into the boarding area and into the secure area, head for duty free and the lounges. If somebody got lost and took the wrong path - nothing compromised.
Scenario 1 - Plane arriving from a non-secure country. Docks at the gate, passenger disembark, walk up the jetway and take the current path to security, or immigration etc.
Scenario 2 - Plane arriving from a 'secure' country. Docks at the gate, passengers disembark. Any local passengers take the current path to immigration etc. Transit passengers just walk up the jetway into the boarding area and into the secure area, head for duty free and the lounges. If somebody got lost and took the wrong path - nothing compromised.
You scenario 2 is similar to what T5 has for domestic arrivals, except that arriving passengers don't need to be cleared through immigration. So that amounts to a scenario 3.
Taking T5 as an example, there's a very limited number of gates that can offer transit passengers the facility to walk straight into the secure airside departures stream without having to be security screened. If your scenario 2 were to be introduced, there'd have to be substantial rebuilding at T5 to create a much larger number of gates that have that facility for transit passengers - but they would still have to be segregated from the scenario 3 gates, because scenario 2 arriving passengers need to go to immigration. And both scenarios would have to be segregated from scenario 1 passengers. I am not an architect, but I imagine this is the sort of thing that would give them nightmares. For example, how could you build proper segregation between scenario 1 and scenario 2 at T5B and T5C?
Too mean to buy a long personal title
In some airports domestic and international flights use the same terminal and gates. If they were not separated you could have an arriving international passenger bring in contraband (lots of money, drugs, jewelery) and hand it to a departing domestic passenger accomplice. That way the contraband would not go through customs and end up in the country without passing through customs.
Changi works well on a number of levels - for a start there are no domestic arrivals / departures - but also they have screening at every gate before you go through to the holding lounge, and the customs and immigration staff are actually well trained, reasonably well paid (by local standards) and practice profiling. They know the type of miscreant they are looking for, and rarely stop travellers for no apparent reason (like some UK airports seem to do).
That's "all" it takes.
That's "all" it takes.
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The difficulty is that your terminal buildings have to be designed to provide the relevant paths.
You scenario 2 is similar to what T5 has for domestic arrivals, except that arriving passengers don't need to be cleared through immigration. So that amounts to a scenario 3.
You scenario 2 is similar to what T5 has for domestic arrivals, except that arriving passengers don't need to be cleared through immigration. So that amounts to a scenario 3.
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Only some parts of DUB are mixed.. Arriving passengers into pier A are mixed with departing passengers. Arriving passengers can stop in the newsagents or have a few beers before going to immigration. (Pier A is however cut off from the rest of the airport due to an annoying one way system and only certain airlines use that pier).
At Pier B & C we seal the doors leading up to the departures area when de-boarding and seal the doors to immigration when passengers are boarding thus keeping them apart. Transferring passengers have to go through immigration and walk to the end of the baggage hall to reach the flight connections area and security again, etc...
However with Pier E in T2, transatlantic passengers will go through the pre-clearance and then be kept in a holding lounge till boarding begins when they will seal off the gate area, limiting the gate area to them passengers only. So 100% separation from other departing passengers and all arriving passengers.
At Pier B & C we seal the doors leading up to the departures area when de-boarding and seal the doors to immigration when passengers are boarding thus keeping them apart. Transferring passengers have to go through immigration and walk to the end of the baggage hall to reach the flight connections area and security again, etc...
However with Pier E in T2, transatlantic passengers will go through the pre-clearance and then be kept in a holding lounge till boarding begins when they will seal off the gate area, limiting the gate area to them passengers only. So 100% separation from other departing passengers and all arriving passengers.
Thread Starter
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Glasgow has an oddball situation where there's a security person at the entrance to the domestic pier after central search checking boarding cards before allowing access, even though the only people in the lounge are those who arrived through BAA Security at Glasgow. It means if you want to avail yourself of any of the shops on arrival from another UK airport, you can't. Given that landside shopping is non existent it's not ideal.
BAA passing up retail opportunities? Some mistake surely. Oddly enough the same situation is absent at BAA Edinburgh and I have never worked out why one is open plan and the other is retricted.
BAA passing up retail opportunities? Some mistake surely. Oddly enough the same situation is absent at BAA Edinburgh and I have never worked out why one is open plan and the other is retricted.
Welcome to Singapore.
Actually, I'm quite happy with it, probably close to 100 flights in and out of Changi in the last 7 years, never once been stopped. The odd bottle of wine over my allowance is all they'd find, and really they can't be bothered about that.
Actually, I'm quite happy with it, probably close to 100 flights in and out of Changi in the last 7 years, never once been stopped. The odd bottle of wine over my allowance is all they'd find, and really they can't be bothered about that.
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That's odd - 6 trips there this year and every trip customs have put my bags through their scanners
ZFT - is customs or still within arrivals? Some flights, e.g., those arriving from Jakarta, Denpasar or Bangkok are routinely disembarked at a gate where they can funnel the passengers through a bag screening check. This does I admit get my blood pressure up...
Otherwise, if it's customs, I can only conclude you look a shady character, sorry.
What's the betting I get stopped on my way back from Jakarta next month?!
Otherwise, if it's customs, I can only conclude you look a shady character, sorry.
What's the betting I get stopped on my way back from Jakarta next month?!
N4790P
Both. I get that 'special' cabin baggage gate check upon arriving but also a customs screening upon exiting the customs hall.
Odd, but these days I seems to sail through just about everywhere else so I doubt I look (too) shady!
Odd, but these days I seems to sail through just about everywhere else so I doubt I look (too) shady!
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The reason many european airports allow arriving and departing passengers to mix freely is the Schengen agreement. This agreement has nothing to do with belonging to the EU or not. For example, Switzerland is a Schengen country, and the UK isnīt.
Flights arriving to a Schengen country from another Schengen country are considered domestic fligths, and you donīt have to go through immigration. If you are coming from a Schengen airport, then you have gone through security in another airport with mandatory european standards of security, so going through another control when on transit is redundant.
Take for example Barcelona. It has been said in this thread that BCN has gate security, which is not true. If you land from a Schengen country and you are staying in BCN or transferring onto another Schengen or domestic flight, you just arrive direct to the Schengen area, were you mix freely with departing passengers. If you arrive from a non-Schengen country, then you will have to go through immigration and another security control, always. If you arrive from a Schengen flight and transfer onto a non-Schengen flight, you will have to go first through security and then through the immigration control at the entrance of the non-Schengen area. The division is still domestic and international, but Schengen flights are considered domestic.
The Schengen agreement means, basically, that you can drive ir take a train from Portugal to Holland, through Spain and France, without going through any border control, and itīs the same in air travel.
In the UK we donīt see this, because itīs not in the Schengen agreement, and as such, everybody coming from abroad has to go through security (not immigration, as docs are checked at the gate by airline staff). The reason why domestic passengers are kept separated from international passengers, or why, if they mix like in LHR T5 they have to get their pictures taken is because there is no legal requirement to carry ID on you in the UK. In the rest of europe, you are required to produce a valid ID even when travelling internally, which you donīt have to do in the UK.
Flights arriving to a Schengen country from another Schengen country are considered domestic fligths, and you donīt have to go through immigration. If you are coming from a Schengen airport, then you have gone through security in another airport with mandatory european standards of security, so going through another control when on transit is redundant.
Take for example Barcelona. It has been said in this thread that BCN has gate security, which is not true. If you land from a Schengen country and you are staying in BCN or transferring onto another Schengen or domestic flight, you just arrive direct to the Schengen area, were you mix freely with departing passengers. If you arrive from a non-Schengen country, then you will have to go through immigration and another security control, always. If you arrive from a Schengen flight and transfer onto a non-Schengen flight, you will have to go first through security and then through the immigration control at the entrance of the non-Schengen area. The division is still domestic and international, but Schengen flights are considered domestic.
The Schengen agreement means, basically, that you can drive ir take a train from Portugal to Holland, through Spain and France, without going through any border control, and itīs the same in air travel.
In the UK we donīt see this, because itīs not in the Schengen agreement, and as such, everybody coming from abroad has to go through security (not immigration, as docs are checked at the gate by airline staff). The reason why domestic passengers are kept separated from international passengers, or why, if they mix like in LHR T5 they have to get their pictures taken is because there is no legal requirement to carry ID on you in the UK. In the rest of europe, you are required to produce a valid ID even when travelling internally, which you donīt have to do in the UK.
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I'm afraid DUS has recently changed for the worse if you arrive from the UK on LH. You go through passport control to get dumped landside and have to reclear security.
What was a five minute transfer has become a 20 minute transfer.
What was a five minute transfer has become a 20 minute transfer.
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In the UK we donīt see this, because itīs not in the Schengen agreement, and as such, everybody coming from abroad has to go through security (not immigration, as docs are checked at the gate by airline staff).