Arrested by police after complaining about sandwich on Ryanair

[Abusing_the_sky]

Are you sure that's the the case with Ryan Air?

I am not just sure, i am positive. Been with FR for over 6 years now, 5 years and 2 months as No1. Whenever the issue of a bad sandwich (in the eyes or taste buds of a pax) arises, all i do is take it back, refund or replace, write it down on the paperwork and that's that. Never had to pay for it from my own wages, nor was i even once questioned about it.

FR are not all that bad; I flew Bmi Baby the other day, as pax, minding my own business in days off, the sandwich i brought was at least 2 days old and the coffee tasted like it came down the drain along with the waste in the a/c. Nonetheless, i paid for it, hated it, never complained, put the remains in the gash bag that was kindly showed into my face by a smiling CC, got off the a/c at destination, got on with my short holiday and with my life in general.
My story never made the newspapers tho, did it?...


....

I rest my case. Move along, nothing to see here.

Rgds,
ATS

[onetrack]

Abusing_the_sky - Yes, but... there may be nothing to see here, as far as major aviation problems are concerned... but the point I was trying to make is... that acceptance of any crap dished up to you, without complaint, only results in lower and lower standards of service and goods.

At what point will you refuse the food you paid for? Never? So they can dish up anything to you, by way of service and products, and you just meekly take it??

This is what is wrong with our societies of the 21st century. We are slowly being brainwashed to accept lower and lower standards in everything. From food... to Chinese goods that fall apart a day after you buy them... right through to behaviour standards.

If managers, CEO's, trainers, educators and others high up in the systems, keep lowering standards, we will all end up like Nth Korea. A nation of substandard individuals, brainwashed into accepting anything, and incapable of producing anything of value... except maybe sub-standard nuclear weapons...

[radeng]

One interesting point is where food is inedible because of mould or whatever. If you complain, it will likely be binned and nothing ever said. If, on the other hand, you quietly take it to your local trading standards/ environmental health or whatever they're called, the supplier will, in the UK, probably get a visit and maybe a prosecution. Now what happens if the sandwich on the aircraft is mouldy and you tell the crew, but keep the sandwich for the authorities?

I can't see you winning any popularity stakes with the CC.....

[Rwy in Sight]

onetrack,

I think the art of complaining deserves a special thread. To whom should we complain, what to ask for, what to do in case the person receiving the complain does not solve the issue etc.

Regarding the lowering of the standards I think the case you "get what you pay for" is very valid. We mostly go for the lowest bid (not that going for a higher will make a difference in quality) and thus we have no ground to complain.

Also I particularly enjoy the signs in the UK where customers / pax are asked not to harass the front line staff for any problems they encounter. Sometimes I think "yes go through the problem and when able write a complain only to be answered by a standard PR letter" is what the management wants to take place.

Rwy in Sight

[onetrack]

I think the art of complaining deserves a special thread

Rwy in Sight - I would have to concur with that statement.

To whom should we complain, what to ask for, what to do in case the person receiving the complain does not solve the issue, etc.

On the ground, it's generally pointless to complain to wait or counter staff, as they rarely have the power (or the ability) to remedy the complaint.

Ask for the manager, and if one can be found, put your complaint factually and without abuse, but forcefully, to him/her. Make it very obvious you consider that what you received, fell far below an acceptable standard - and that you paid good money and it's reasonable for a customer to expect a highly satisfactory standard or level of goods/performance.

If the manager refuses to do anything, or doesn't remedy the situation, fire off a letter or email to the highest contact you can find, in the organisation or company. Putting things in writing usually gets results. Tell them that you don't want to be fobbed off with just a voucher or a credit, you wish to see a measureable improvement in the goods/services delivered.

In the air, things are somewhat different. If I was served sub-standard food as an airline passenger, I would protest to the CC, and if the food quality wasn't rectified, I'd be keeping the example, taking as many notes as possible, photos of the offending item... then firing off a missive to the most senior manager in the organisation after I completed the flight... with a copy to the CEO. I'd be telling them the same things as any ground-based operation... that their service/quality level wasn't up to reasonable expectations, and that you expect to see something done about it.

[radeng]

Is there legal redress available, such as the Small Claims Court in the UK, for bad food etc on an airline? If you buy a sofa or a chair or whatever that doesn't meet the standards expected, there is, so why not Ryanair sandwiches?

[IJM]

Now what happens if the sandwich on the aircraft is mouldy and you tell the crew, but keep the sandwich for the authorities?

I can't see you winning any popularity stakes with the CC.....

Radeng - if a clearly sub-standard product (eg. a mouldy sandwich) is shown to the CC, then they should do whatever it takes to remedy the situation.

Any CC member who doesn't assist the passenger in such a case needs to be made known to his/her management.

[Arriva driver]

I can just see it - Skipper, better take up the hold, we've got a passenger who wants to photograph his sandwich.

[Common Sense Flyer]

Who would pay over the odds for a Ryanair sandwich anyway?

[onetrack]

Who would pay over the odds for a Ryanair sandwich anyway?

Gasp! - Are you actually inferring, that a low-cost airline would supply low-cost food!

The most accurate version of the story appears to be in the Irish Times, and it is complete with a lengthy interview with the passenger, one Henrik Ulven.

It appears that an over-zealous stewardess met up with a passenger, who perhaps adopted what she saw, as an aggrieved and righteous attitude of complaint, that fell into the category of CC abuse.

Mr Ulven tried to order 2 options of hot meals, and was informed that both were unavailable. He then ordered the "chicken premium sandwich". Naturally with a name like that, one would be led to believe it was superior to a run-of-the-mill sandwich.

Mr Ulven says his money was in his jacket in the overhead locker, and he would pay for the sandwich next time he was able to get up. However, upon tasting the sandwich, it fell far short of his "superior" expectations and obviously fell into the "inferior" range.

He then called the stewardess and told her he wouldn't be paying for a sandwich that he regarded as inedible. She obviously saw this as a non-payment fraud being perpetrated, and along with what she perceived as aggravating behaviour, decided the passenger was guilty of disruptive behaviour, and this warranted police being called upon landing.

I believe that this was a particularly poor reaction to the unfolding events, and shows a serious lack of judgement and training on behalf of Ryanair CC.

However, given the low-cost mantra of Ryanair, which obviously extends to scrimping on staff training, particularly with regard as to how to address passengers legitimate complaints - then I'd have to say that this particular event shows everyone just what they can expect from this particular airline.

I guess Mr Ulven expected top-class treatment from a bottom-class airline. He's old enough to have known better. I'll wager he doesn't make the same mistake again.

Ryanair denies overreacting in sandwich incident - The Irish Times - Fri, Jul 23, 2010

[sprocky_ger]

At least the majority of Ryanair pax dont care. They still book their flights in masses. Maybe they are masochistic: "C'mon, treat me like Ryanair!"

[Coquelet]

Mr Ulven says .... Mr Ulven claims that ... very well, but ...
Does Mr Ulven tells the pure and absolute thruth and is the Ryanair stewardess of course a liar ?
Why would Mr Ulven's version be the "most accurate" one ?

[west lakes]

Though of course if you have a poor meal in a restaurant and refuse to pay then - expect the police to be called!

[BillS]

Though of course if you have a poor meal in a restaurant and refuse to pay then - expect the police to be called!

All they might do is take your name and address.
Its a civil matter - not criminal.

[Ancient Observer]

For the Brits............

For the Brits, it is very simple. Complain to the CC, and ask for a copy of the record that they have made. If they have not made a record, ask for a signed document to that effect.
Then, take the offending sandwich to both elfinsafety and to trading standards. Put all comms in writing, and if sending them via the post, send only via recorded delivery.
Take/send all the paperwork to both the CAA (SRG, lgw, FOI group - complain about the poisonning of pilots) and the Daily Mail.
Simples

[Alanwsg]

The story has appeared on the Money Saving Expert's site ....

Ryanair passenger arrested after chicken sandwich dispute - MoneySavingExpert News

[racedo]

The usual IF its Ryanair then they or the staff must be lying and over reacting and the Pax is always telling the whole story.

Passengers wanting to switch to something where he hadn't yet paid the bill for what he decided he hated.
Given he was Peed off already that his hot food choices weren't available and then ordered a sandwich and not paid for it, decided he didn't like it and wanted something else then not unsurprisingly CC decided enough was enough.

If having paid for it and it it unedible as he claims then CC as per FR crewmember has already pointed out its not an issue to change it, expecting to change something while still unpaid understandably gets a different response.

[critter592]

Originally Posted by Abusing_the_sky

...so my guess is that, in this case, something else happened and the journo failed to see it and report it as it happened.

Perhaps the passenger assaulted the CC with the rubber sandwich?

[Abusing_the_sky]

Perhaps the passenger assaulted the CC with the rubber sandwich?

Or perhaps, the CC had enough of the moaning for nothing from the said pax and adopted the "Sir, i am here to save your a$$, not kiss it" attitude? Remember, CC are humans too, we might not be allowed to swear whilst in uniform, or harm a society reject whilst in uniform, but by god we still have feelings, just like everyone else.
I wouldn't call a mortgage advisor or a loan advisor a "c**t" just because i don't fall in the "right category", would i?
So why is it ok for a pax to abuse and call names a CC who is just doing his/her job?

Well done that CC and Cpt for supporting the Cabin Crew. Galley FM says this incident was way deeper than what it was reported to be in the newspapers, and the said pax was... well let's say not very nice to the CC. Calling the CC a "c**t" and a "stupid b!tch" is not what the CC had in mind before reporting for that flight. If it was me, i would sue him for defamation of character as well as damaging my professional reputation in front of other people.

Oh sorry dear Mr Ulven, i do apologise for not staying up all night before the flight, to cook sandwiches, and then present you with the most fresh, ever so tasteful chicken sandwich for you to enjoy during your flight. I sincerely apologise for me not being the slave you always wanted me to be. I'll just lay here, in front of you, for you to step on me, might as well rub your shoes on me since you are treating me like a doormat anyway. Have a nice flight Mr Ulven!

[etrang]

Galley FM says this incident was way deeper than what it was reported to be in the newspapers,

What exactly is Galley FM saying?

If it was me, i would sue him for defamation of character

I think you would lose, on the grounds of;

Opinion is a defense recognized in nearly every jurisdiction. If the allegedly defamatory assertion is an expression of opinion rather than a statement of fact, defamation claims usually cannot be brought because opinions are inherently not falsifiable. and

No actual injury: If there is third-party communication, but the third-party hearing the defamatory statement does not believe the statement, or does not care, then there is no injury, and therefore, no recourse.

Defamation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia