Ba Fare Codes
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Ba Fare Codes
(From what I can gather the last time someone asked about this was 2003 and I have had no joy with the Internet)
My regular flights LHR to MCT have been changed from M/H to M/N . As a result I only got 25% of the points and miles I used to get .Unfortunately no one told me until I came to claiming miles.
Can someone assist by letting me know what this means to me as an SLF in terms of , fares , seating and restrictions - if any.
All credit to the BA CC . The last flight I did was during one of the strike days and there were only 59 SLF on the aircraft. The CC could not possibly have been nicer or any more accomodating.
Thanks in advance
Babaleka
My regular flights LHR to MCT have been changed from M/H to M/N . As a result I only got 25% of the points and miles I used to get .Unfortunately no one told me until I came to claiming miles.
Can someone assist by letting me know what this means to me as an SLF in terms of , fares , seating and restrictions - if any.
All credit to the BA CC . The last flight I did was during one of the strike days and there were only 59 SLF on the aircraft. The CC could not possibly have been nicer or any more accomodating.
Thanks in advance
Babaleka
Join Date: Feb 2001
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I'm not exactly sure what you're asking here as your question is non-specific, but what appears to me is that for some reason the booking (yield management) class has been changed from H to N, both being subclasses of economy (Y or M). 'N' is a lower yield (cheaper) fare so I guess this was done as a result of budget cuts.
The 'N' class ticket will be less flexible in terms of changes, and the cancellation penalty will be higher. As far as seating is concerned, they don't specifically allocate worse seats to N class pax than to H class, but it is possible that the H class fare would entitle advance seat requests whereas the N class might not, so what you got would be 'luck of the draw'.
Most airlines limit or even withdraw mileage accrual on their lowest yield fares, and you will also probably find that whereas with an H class ticket you could have used miles to upgrade, with an N class you probably can't.
Without looking up the fare rules, I can't be any more specific than this.
For a fuller explanation of yield management classes and fares I posted something here http://www.pprune.org/passengers-slf...ml#post5552322.
The 'N' class ticket will be less flexible in terms of changes, and the cancellation penalty will be higher. As far as seating is concerned, they don't specifically allocate worse seats to N class pax than to H class, but it is possible that the H class fare would entitle advance seat requests whereas the N class might not, so what you got would be 'luck of the draw'.
Most airlines limit or even withdraw mileage accrual on their lowest yield fares, and you will also probably find that whereas with an H class ticket you could have used miles to upgrade, with an N class you probably can't.
Without looking up the fare rules, I can't be any more specific than this.
For a fuller explanation of yield management classes and fares I posted something here http://www.pprune.org/passengers-slf...ml#post5552322.
I'd like to add something to Capetonians excellent post which veers into a detail of yield management.
I think most people assume that if two users ask the same reservations system for availability on the same date/city pair/time they will get the same answer.
Not so.
The airlines have the ability to identify who is asking the question and to bias the availability accordingly.
Why would they do that? Well, not all currencies are created equal so it can be beneficial to sell in one currency and not another. Capetonian referred to special events and an agent with a "deal" to sell for that event may be shown availability in a specific bucket when others without that deal may not.
This capability was bought starkly to my attention when an agency I was dealing with claimed they were unable to get any availability at all (or make a booking) on one specific airline. It took a while but it turned out that the agency I was dealing with had been non - IATA and purchased an IATA agency. This had all been approved (as it has to be) by IATA. It turned out that the purchased agency had been in dispute with the airline who were blocking availability. Following negotiations/explanations between the agency and airline it was all turned back on again. The same airline regularly excludes a specific bucket from most agency responses, only showing it to their consolidators.
And there are other things that can cause availability to be manipulated. If, for example the yield to the airline is better A-B-C (where B is a hub) it may well be that an availability request for A-C will show availability on a B-C flight when an availability request for B-C will show the same flight full. And don't think you can only book B-C from the A-B-C because these segments will be tied together in a process known as "Marriage(!)" that (unlike the real thing) cannot be broken.
I think most people assume that if two users ask the same reservations system for availability on the same date/city pair/time they will get the same answer.
Not so.
The airlines have the ability to identify who is asking the question and to bias the availability accordingly.
Why would they do that? Well, not all currencies are created equal so it can be beneficial to sell in one currency and not another. Capetonian referred to special events and an agent with a "deal" to sell for that event may be shown availability in a specific bucket when others without that deal may not.
This capability was bought starkly to my attention when an agency I was dealing with claimed they were unable to get any availability at all (or make a booking) on one specific airline. It took a while but it turned out that the agency I was dealing with had been non - IATA and purchased an IATA agency. This had all been approved (as it has to be) by IATA. It turned out that the purchased agency had been in dispute with the airline who were blocking availability. Following negotiations/explanations between the agency and airline it was all turned back on again. The same airline regularly excludes a specific bucket from most agency responses, only showing it to their consolidators.
And there are other things that can cause availability to be manipulated. If, for example the yield to the airline is better A-B-C (where B is a hub) it may well be that an availability request for A-C will show availability on a B-C flight when an availability request for B-C will show the same flight full. And don't think you can only book B-C from the A-B-C because these segments will be tied together in a process known as "Marriage(!)" that (unlike the real thing) cannot be broken.
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Yes, that's all absolutely correct, thanks Hartington. It really is a minefield.
It's a bit like this :
"Can I have a seat on flight XX 123 on 12 AUG."
"Before I can tell you, I need to know who wants to know, why, and where else is the passenger going? When are they coming back and how much do they want to pay?"
There's this classic which I may have posted before but it's worth posting again :
It's a bit like this :
"Can I have a seat on flight XX 123 on 12 AUG."
"Before I can tell you, I need to know who wants to know, why, and where else is the passenger going? When are they coming back and how much do they want to pay?"
There's this classic which I may have posted before but it's worth posting again :
Buying paint from a hardware store
Customer: Hi, how much is your paint?
Clerk: We have regular quality for $12 a gallon and premium for $18. How many gallons would you like?
Customer: Five gallons of regular quality, please.
Clerk: Great. That will be $60 plus tax.
Buying paint from an airline
Customer: Hi, how much is your paint?
Clerk: Well, sir, that all depends.
Customer: Depends on what?
Clerk: Well, actually a lot of things.
Customer: How about just giving me an average price?
Clerk: Wow, that's just too hard a question. The lowest price is $9 a gallon, and we have 150 prices up to about $200 a gallon.
Customer: What's the difference in the paint?
Clerk: Oh, there isn't any difference; its all the same paint.
Customer: Well then, I'd like some of that $9 paint.
Clerk: Well, first I need to ask you a few questions. When do you intend to use it?
Customer: I want to paint tomorrow on my day off.
Clerk: Sir, the paint for tomorrow is the $200 paint.
Customer: What? When would I have to paint in order to get the $9 version?
Clerk: That would be in three weeks, but you will also have to agree to start painting before Friday of that week and continue painting until at least Sunday.
Customer: You've got to be kidding!
Clerk: Sir, we don't kid around here. Of course, Ill have to check to see if we have any of that paint available before I can sell it to you.
Customer: What do you mean check to see if you can sell it to me? You have shelves full of the stuff; I can see it right there.
Clerk: Just because you can see it doesn't mean that we have it. It may be the same paint, but we only sell a certain number of gallons on any given weekend. Oh, and by the way, the price just went to $12.
Customer: What! You mean the price just went up while we were talking!
Clerk: Yes sir. You see, we change prices and rules thousands of times a day, and since you haven't actually walked out the store with your paint yet, we just decided to change. Unless you want the same thing to happen again, I would suggest that you get on with your purchase. How many gallons do you want?
Customer: I don't know exactly. Maybe five gallons. Maybe I should buy six gallons just to make sure I have enough.
Clerk: Oh no, sir, you can't do that. If you buy the paint and then don't use it, you will be liable for penalties and possible confiscation of the paint you already have.
Customer: What?
Clerk: That's right. We can sell you enough paint to do your kitchen, bathroom, hall, and north bedroom, but if you stop painting before you do the bedroom, you will be in violation of our tariffs.
Customer: But what does it matter to you whether I use all the paint? I already paid you for it!
Clerk: Sir, there's no point in getting upset; that's just the way it is. We make plans based upon the idea that you will use all the paint, and when you don't, it just causes us all sorts of problems.
Customer: This is crazy! I suppose something terrible will happen if I don't keep painting until after Saturday night!
Clerk: Yes, sir, it will.
Customer: Well, that does it! I'm going somewhere else to buy my paint.
Clerk: That won't do you any good, sir. We all have the same rules. Oh, and thanks for flying - I mean painting - with our airline.
Customer: Hi, how much is your paint?
Clerk: We have regular quality for $12 a gallon and premium for $18. How many gallons would you like?
Customer: Five gallons of regular quality, please.
Clerk: Great. That will be $60 plus tax.
Buying paint from an airline
Customer: Hi, how much is your paint?
Clerk: Well, sir, that all depends.
Customer: Depends on what?
Clerk: Well, actually a lot of things.
Customer: How about just giving me an average price?
Clerk: Wow, that's just too hard a question. The lowest price is $9 a gallon, and we have 150 prices up to about $200 a gallon.
Customer: What's the difference in the paint?
Clerk: Oh, there isn't any difference; its all the same paint.
Customer: Well then, I'd like some of that $9 paint.
Clerk: Well, first I need to ask you a few questions. When do you intend to use it?
Customer: I want to paint tomorrow on my day off.
Clerk: Sir, the paint for tomorrow is the $200 paint.
Customer: What? When would I have to paint in order to get the $9 version?
Clerk: That would be in three weeks, but you will also have to agree to start painting before Friday of that week and continue painting until at least Sunday.
Customer: You've got to be kidding!
Clerk: Sir, we don't kid around here. Of course, Ill have to check to see if we have any of that paint available before I can sell it to you.
Customer: What do you mean check to see if you can sell it to me? You have shelves full of the stuff; I can see it right there.
Clerk: Just because you can see it doesn't mean that we have it. It may be the same paint, but we only sell a certain number of gallons on any given weekend. Oh, and by the way, the price just went to $12.
Customer: What! You mean the price just went up while we were talking!
Clerk: Yes sir. You see, we change prices and rules thousands of times a day, and since you haven't actually walked out the store with your paint yet, we just decided to change. Unless you want the same thing to happen again, I would suggest that you get on with your purchase. How many gallons do you want?
Customer: I don't know exactly. Maybe five gallons. Maybe I should buy six gallons just to make sure I have enough.
Clerk: Oh no, sir, you can't do that. If you buy the paint and then don't use it, you will be liable for penalties and possible confiscation of the paint you already have.
Customer: What?
Clerk: That's right. We can sell you enough paint to do your kitchen, bathroom, hall, and north bedroom, but if you stop painting before you do the bedroom, you will be in violation of our tariffs.
Customer: But what does it matter to you whether I use all the paint? I already paid you for it!
Clerk: Sir, there's no point in getting upset; that's just the way it is. We make plans based upon the idea that you will use all the paint, and when you don't, it just causes us all sorts of problems.
Customer: This is crazy! I suppose something terrible will happen if I don't keep painting until after Saturday night!
Clerk: Yes, sir, it will.
Customer: Well, that does it! I'm going somewhere else to buy my paint.
Clerk: That won't do you any good, sir. We all have the same rules. Oh, and thanks for flying - I mean painting - with our airline.
